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Croatian Music


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Author Topic: Croatian Music  (Read 5508 times)
Jolly Roger
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« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2013, 02:32:44 am »

Will do, I understand some members here (Eric Schissel) have communicated with Heyman..
BIS,Ondine and perhaps Albany or Chandos would bite..I'll check it out..
and there is also Rob Barnett here, he has had a profound impact on my musical choices:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/contrib/barnett.htm

I didn't know Eric was a member here! And yes, Rob Barnett is an excellent reviewer and enthusiast of the byways of classical music!
sorry, perhaps Eric is still buried with the myopic romantics at uc.
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kyjo
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« Reply #46 on: July 26, 2013, 02:56:37 am »

Obscure?? How does one counter that statement? An enterprising sponsor (Like Novartis Pharma) could co-sponsor a debut of Radio Croatia Symphony for pennies on the dollar and finance it that way..I trust Croatia is not too obscure for everyone else.

Naxos has recently released two discs of the music of Marcel Tyberg, for example. Before the release of the first disc, Tyberg was virtually unknown. Even the most ardent music scholars would have never heard of him. So what makes Sulek so "obscure"? Certainly he is less obscure at the present moment than Tyberg was before the release of the first Naxos disc of his music? Just a thought Smiley
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Jolly Roger
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« Reply #47 on: July 26, 2013, 08:01:35 am »

Obscure?? How does one counter that statement? An enterprising sponsor (Like Novartis Pharma) could co-sponsor a debut of Radio Croatia Symphony for pennies on the dollar and finance it that way..I trust Croatia is not too obscure for everyone else.

Naxos has recently released two discs of the music of Marcel Tyberg, for example. Before the release of the first disc, Tyberg was virtually unknown. Even the most ardent music scholars would have never heard of him. So what makes Sulek so "obscure"? Certainly he is less obscure at the present moment than Tyberg was before the release of the first Naxos disc of his music? Just a thought Smiley

Perhaps Tyberg had wealthy and political advocates..IMHO, his music is not nearly the quality of Sulek's...
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kyjo
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« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2013, 10:26:32 pm »

Perhaps Tyberg had wealthy and political advocates..IMHO, his music is not nearly the quality of Sulek's...

That's very likely. Tyberg's music is worth resurrecting IMO (I have a soft spot for his Brucknerian/Mahlerian Symphony no. 3), but his music does not speak with a powerful individual voice as does Sulek's.
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« Reply #49 on: July 27, 2013, 01:06:40 am »

I can think of MANY composers whose music appears on Naxos and is nowhere near the quality, appeal, or originality of Sulek's.

Politics, money, taste (or lack thereof), influence, personal bias... alas, all serve to keep many deserving names in the shadows. Not necessarily with malice, just unfortunate lack of powerful advocates.
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kyjo
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« Reply #50 on: July 27, 2013, 01:29:11 am »

Spot-on, Maris. I am seriously wondering whether Heymann has heard any of Sulek's music....had he heard it, I'd think he'd be jumping all over conductors and orchestras to record it, such is its quality! I would find it hard to believe if Heymann actually disliked Sulek's music, but perhaps he does Undecided We need to start a Sulek society!
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Jolly Roger
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« Reply #51 on: July 27, 2013, 01:54:27 am »

Perhaps Tyberg had wealthy and political advocates..IMHO, his music is not nearly the quality of Sulek's...

That's very likely. Tyberg's music is worth resurrecting IMO (I have a soft spot for his Brucknerian/Mahlerian Symphony no. 3), but his music does not speak with a powerful individual voice as does Sulek's.
Very well said..this has prompted me to revisit Tyberg's music. One thing is certain, Sulek certainly did get my attention.
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ttle
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« Reply #52 on: July 28, 2013, 07:23:23 pm »

Spot-on, Maris. I am seriously wondering whether Heymann has heard any of Sulek's music....had he heard it, I'd think he'd be jumping all over conductors and orchestras to record it, such is its quality! I would find it hard to believe if Heymann actually disliked Sulek's music, but perhaps he does Undecided We need to start a Sulek society!

Well, I tried - I posted Šulek's 6th on his wall a few months ago Grin Probably he did not bother to hear it, but if others have, then who knows. To be fair, Heymann created HNH in the first place and his economic model allowed to record things one would never have dreamt of seeing distributed on that scale. He could still revive his "Patrimoine" series: sell the Šulek at low price in Croatia, at full price elsewhere for a start and see what happens. This being said, Šulek's symphonies, more than most I think, demand top class orchestras and conductors who really believe in them. Horvat would have been great, but he probably stopped conducting by now. Pavle Dešpalj can be excellent when he is inspired. Then, one would need the Vienna Philharmonic, or a Zagreb Philharmonic with plenty of rehearsing time Smiley CPO is more likely to go there, their recording of Dora Pejačević's symphony is a bit slow but does justice to many beautiful orchestral details.

Then we also need a complete series of Ivan Brkanović's symphonies. This is completely different music, more elemental and archaic in a way, but very strong and profound. Amazingly tempi differ widely from one performance to another.
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Jolly Roger
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« Reply #53 on: July 28, 2013, 10:04:11 pm »

Spot-on, Maris. I am seriously wondering whether Heymann has heard any of Sulek's music....had he heard it, I'd think he'd be jumping all over conductors and orchestras to record it, such is its quality! I would find it hard to believe if Heymann actually disliked Sulek's music, but perhaps he does Undecided We need to start a Sulek society!

Well, I tried - I posted Šulek's 6th on his wall a few months ago Grin Probably he did not bother to hear it, but if others have, then who knows. To be fair, Heymann created HNH in the first place and his economic model allowed to record things one would never have dreamt of seeing distributed on that scale. He could still revive his "Patrimoine" series: sell the Šulek at low price in Croatia, at full price elsewhere for a start and see what happens. This being said, Šulek's symphonies, more than most I think, demand top class orchestras and conductors who really believe in them. Horvat would have been great, but he probably stopped conducting by now. Pavle Dešpalj can be excellent when he is inspired. Then, one would need the Vienna Philharmonic, or a Zagreb Philharmonic with plenty of rehearsing time Smiley CPO is more likely to go there, their recording of Dora Pejačević's symphony is a bit slow but does justice to many beautiful orchestral details.

Then we also need a complete series of Ivan Brkanović's symphonies. This is completely different music, more elemental and archaic in a way, but very strong and profound. Amazingly tempi differ widely from one performance to another.
Your point about Sulek's music requiring skilled musicians is very well taken, I the Czech or Slovak Orchestras would also do it justice providing the right conductor was at the helm. I also wonder if Sulek could bring Dutton out of their present agonizing doldrums.
And there are possibly Croatian-Amercian groups, and why has no one set up a Sulek Musical Society? 
BBC or Swedish radio sometimes also take more adventurous paths..BBC did have a program on Croatian music, but Suleks music was too lengthy I suspect.
Perhaps international corporate interests in Craotia would be helpful allies?
For some strange reason, I have had little reaction from Rob Barrett..Just some bland statements about the music being tragic and written in hard times.
He was to let me know his sentiments on the Violin Concerto, but have not heard back.
His background and musical preferences are much in tune with mine:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/contrib/barnett.htm
and his email
rob.barnett1@btinternet.com

Go figure..

Ivan Brkanović's music is totally unknown to me..are there examples to be found?
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kyjo
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« Reply #54 on: July 29, 2013, 02:38:42 am »

Ivan Brkanović's music is totally unknown to me..are there examples to be found?

The only piece of his I could find is this Concertino for strings:

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Holger
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« Reply #55 on: July 29, 2013, 07:31:01 am »

Check the archives of the old UC forum: ttle once uploaded Brkanović's "Triptihon", a kind of folk requiem (subtitled "Folk Mourning Ritual"), and actually a highly impressive and intense work of archaic power. Scenes of grief and lament finally lead into a wild dance of unreined vigour and passion. I just checked things out, the link is still valid. In my opinion, Brkanović is not less interesting that Šulek, especially since his works are very different from Šulek's indeed. Another major figure in Croatian music for sure.
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JimL
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« Reply #56 on: July 31, 2013, 10:02:17 pm »

Will do, I understand some members here (Eric Schissel) have communicated with Heyman..
BIS,Ondine and perhaps Albany or Chandos would bite..I'll check it out..
and there is also Rob Barnett here, he has had a profound impact on my musical choices:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/contrib/barnett.htm

I didn't know Eric was a member here! And yes, Rob Barnett is an excellent reviewer and enthusiast of the byways of classical music!
sorry, perhaps Eric is still buried with the myopic romantics at uc.
Eric is still there.  I've tried to lure him over here, but so far, no dice.
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kyjo
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« Reply #57 on: July 31, 2013, 10:17:14 pm »

Eric is still there.  I've tried to lure him over here, but so far, no dice.

Wonder why he won't come over here Huh I know he has an interest in 20th-century music as well. I will, for the sake of the order, painfully restrain myself from going on a UC rant Lips sealed
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Jolly Roger
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« Reply #58 on: July 31, 2013, 11:52:08 pm »

Eric is still there.  I've tried to lure him over here, but so far, no dice.

Wonder why he won't come over here Huh I know he has an interest in 20th-century music as well. I will, for the sake of the order, painfully restrain myself from going on a UC rant Lips sealed
What is "the order"?
Maybe he enjoys provoking tirades re the definition of Romantic music. I know he loves some of the music which they disdain and I suspect he will eventually capitulate. Since I have a preference(I said preference) for late 19th, 20th and current century composers, I often run afoul of the mandates. And when they declared Edmund Rubba as another another untouchable non-romantic, I felt that they were unworthy of any reasoned response. (I do return when I feel mischevious)
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kyjo
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« Reply #59 on: August 01, 2013, 01:53:39 am »

What is "the order"?
Maybe he enjoys provoking tirades re the definition of Romantic music. I know he loves some of the music which they disdain and I suspect he will eventually capitulate. Since I have a preference(I said preference) for late 19th, 20th and current century composers, I often run afoul of the mandates. And when they declared Edmund Rubba as another another untouchable non-romantic, I felt that they were unworthy of any reasoned response. (I do return when I feel mischevious)

It seems like even late-romantic music provokes some controversy over there. I read one post that said that Sibelius was at the "outer fringes" of their remit Roll Eyes I wasn't surprised by Rubbra conflicting with the remit; after all, Alwyn's Lyra Angelica, one of the most beautiful works of the 20th century, was deemed not "romantic" enough! But what does it matter, we have the A-MF Grin

P.S. This thread is about Croatian music!
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