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guest822
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I agree that the extensive Prelude is a miscalculation - either it stands on its own or it effectively "plays its hand" too freely: when you come to the later choral sections the sense of déjà vu is just too overwhelming!
Yes, that's my thinking exactly. It's not that ten minutes is too long per se -- consider the length of some of Wagner's preludes, and that's the point; had it been the prelude to a three-hour music-drama it would have been fine but it takes up nearly a third of the work's playing time which is disproportionate.
He didn't simply throw all these instruments together for the hell of it. No - like Richard Strauss, he knew what he was doing when it came to the orchestra; one wouldn't perform "An Alpine Symphony" without the thunder machine, so why be so cavalier about omitting instruments called for in "The Bells"?
I had the advantage of reading the full score as the work progressed and so I could insert the missing instruments with my mind's ear, as it were, but I certainly agree that just leaving them out was cavalier in the extreme. I'd like to think that if Howard Griffiths (or any other Holbrooke enthusiast) chooses to make a recording of the piece, then the comissioning company would not be so cheese-paring as the BBC was in 1978. |
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Albion
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I had the advantage of reading the full score as the work progressed Better book your next Specsavers appointment...  I'd like to think that if Howard Griffiths (or any other Holbrooke enthusiast) chooses to make a recording of the piece, then the comissioning company would not be so cheese-paring as the BBC was in 1978.
On reflection, Norman Del Mar was simultaneously draining the BBC's annual budget with his fantastic recording of Bantock's complete Omar Khayyam...  Josef knew very well the sort of sounds he wanted to hear and how to produce them as he was a masterly orchestrator: it's there for a purpose It certainly is! Its very extravagance ( a la "Apollo and the Seaman" and "The Children of Don") indicates to me that Holbrooke was essentially a virtuosic colourist, as Elgar, Debussy, Richard Strauss and Havergal Brian were. He thought of the orchestra almost as if it was a child's dream art set: ten shades of brown, fifteen shades of red, twelve shades of blue, fifty shades of grey, lol...  :) |
"A piece is worth your attention, and is itself for you praiseworthy, if it makes you feel you have not wasted your time over it." (Sydney Grew, 1922)
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guest822
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I had the advantage of reading the full score as the work progressed Better book your next Specsavers appointment... They do keep writing to say I'm overdue for my eye test! Holbrooke was essentially a virtuosic colourist... ten shades of brown, fifteen shades of red, twelve shades of blue, fifty shades of grey, lol...
:o Dorothy did have a lot to put up with, then! |
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Albion
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:o Dorothy did have a lot to put up with, then!
Aye, she must have been a real trouper! Joe's evident insanity (pestering Elgar, pestering Newman, pestering Bantock, pestering the Press, in fact pestering just about everybody) eventually took its toll, as this recently-unearthed (colourified by new-fangled digital wotsits) photograph clearly shows...  ::) Nevertheless, I still love his music. ;) Hey, wouldn't that colander be great in a percussion section...? ;D |
"A piece is worth your attention, and is itself for you praiseworthy, if it makes you feel you have not wasted your time over it." (Sydney Grew, 1922)
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guest822
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Hey, wouldn't that colander be great in a percussion section...?
;D
I think Spike Jones and His City Slickers already dd that... ;)  .jpg) |
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Albion
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Hey, wouldn't that colander be great in a percussion section...?
;D
I think Spike Jones and His City Slickers already did that... ;) Holbrooke was a true pioneer of the "kitchen-sink department"...  :D |
"A piece is worth your attention, and is itself for you praiseworthy, if it makes you feel you have not wasted your time over it." (Sydney Grew, 1922)
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Albion
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Holbrooke was a true pioneer of the "kitchen-sink department"...
Gareth, was The Bells the largest orchestra that Holbrooke ever used - is it his Gothic?  :o I was somewhere in the audience on this thrilling occasion way back in July 2011. :) |
"A piece is worth your attention, and is itself for you praiseworthy, if it makes you feel you have not wasted your time over it." (Sydney Grew, 1922)
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Grandenorm
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I suspect it is, although Dylan gives the number of concertinas called for in that opera as "unlimited"! I do not jest.
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Albion
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I suspect it is, although Dylan gives the number of concertinas called for in that opera as "unlimited"! I do not jest.
How fantastically bonkers and yet how irresistibly fabulous at the same time!  X ;D |
"A piece is worth your attention, and is itself for you praiseworthy, if it makes you feel you have not wasted your time over it." (Sydney Grew, 1922)
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Grandenorm
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How fantastically bonkers and yet how irresistibly fabulous at the same time! Yes - wonderful, isn't it? Josef loved his squeezeboxes!!! Shades of the music hall, no doubt - which was, of course, a not insignificant influence on his music. |
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Albion
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How fantastically bonkers and yet how irresistibly fabulous at the same time! Yes - wonderful, isn't it? Josef loved his squeezeboxes!!! Shades of the music hall, no doubt - which was, of course, a not insignificant influence on his music. Which also accounts for the unusually-early element of cheeky syncopation in many of his melodies...  Almost reminiscent of Louis Gottschalk (1829-1869) at times. ;) |
"A piece is worth your attention, and is itself for you praiseworthy, if it makes you feel you have not wasted your time over it." (Sydney Grew, 1922)
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Albion
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the unusually-early element of cheeky syncopation in many of his melodies... Is it the finale of his Piano Quartet, Op.21 that springs most readily to mind? ??? |
"A piece is worth your attention, and is itself for you praiseworthy, if it makes you feel you have not wasted your time over it." (Sydney Grew, 1922)
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Grandenorm
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Which also accounts for the unusually-early element of cheeky syncopation in many of his melodies... And the deliciously louche (and ever so slightly vulgar) harmonies to be found here and there, notably in the piano concerto. |
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Albion
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Which also accounts for the unusually-early element of cheeky syncopation in many of his melodies... And the deliciously louche (and ever so slightly vulgar) harmonies to be found here and there, notably in the piano concerto. How shocking to one of my refined and delicate sensibilities: away with Holbrooke and all his diabolical and naughty corrupting works!!! :o ;D |
"A piece is worth your attention, and is itself for you praiseworthy, if it makes you feel you have not wasted your time over it." (Sydney Grew, 1922)
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guest822
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Which also accounts for the unusually-early element of cheeky syncopation in many of his melodies... And the deliciously louche (and ever so slightly vulgar) harmonies to be found here and there, notably in the piano concerto. How shocking to one of my refined and delicate sensibilities... And the band played "Believe it if you like"... |
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