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DOWNLOADS ARRANGED BY NATIONALITY => Downloads: discussion without links should be posted here, for the access of both members and non-members alike => Topic started by: jowcol on August 22, 2012, 03:14:45 pm



Title: Croatian Music
Post by: jowcol on August 22, 2012, 03:14:45 pm
Music of Miljenko Prohaska
(http://nagrada-status.hgu.hr/files/Image/posebno/prohaska_miljenko.jpg)

1. Radio Intro
2-4: Concertino for Jazz Quartet
Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra Strings
Radio broadcast, Date Unknown
Zagreb Jazz Quartet
Composer, Conductor

5-7:  Concertino for Jazz Quartet
(LP source-most likely MYSTERY OF BLUES (Jugoton LSY-65015/6). From Yugoslavia in 1976)

You are not seeing double, this is two versions of the same work.

From the collection of Karl Miller

For what it's worth, I really like this work-- it seems to play equal weight to the jazz and classical elements, and the orchestration is quite creative.  (I must admit that the Kapustin works I posted on UC (and will bring here at some point in the future), had pretty dull orchestration/backing.   This is quite different-- I'm finding both "halves" quite satisfying, and this is an excellent example, IMO,  of what Third Stream should be.




From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Years active   1950s–present
Miljenko Prohaska (born 17 September 1925) is a notable Croatian composer, music arranger and orchestra conductor.

He is mainly known for founding a number of prominent Croatian orchestras and for his longtime service as the conductor of the Radio Zagreb Dance Orchestra (present-day Croatian Radiotelevision Big Band Orchestra).[1]

Prohaska was born in Zagreb and he first began learning the violin at a children's music school in Zagreb. He went on to enrol at a secondary music school where he was educated as a contrabass player and graduated in 1951, before continuing his studies at the Zagreb Music Academy and graduating in 1956 from the music teaching department. Since the mid-1950s until the late 1980s Prohaska was a contrabass player with the Zagreb Philharmonic Orchestra, the Radio Zagreb Symphony Orchestra, the Yugoslav Radio Orchestra, the Zagreb Jazz Quartet and many other musical ensembles.[1] He was also the director of the Zagreb Festival of Popular Music (Zagrebfest) from 1967 to 1969.

In 1989 he retired from playing and became the conductor of Radio Zagreb's Dance Orchestra. Between 1996 and 1998 he was conductor of the Croatian Army Big Band. Prohaska also conducted orchestras at five Eurovision Song Contests (twice in London, twice in Dublin ad once in Madrid),[1] and often performed around the world, including one of his more notable appearances at the 10th Monterey Jazz Festival in 1967, when he conducted the Don Ellis Orchestra rendition of his compositions.[1] In 1966 Leonard Feather included him in The Encyclopedia of Jazz in the Sixties, and Willis Conover (the notable jazz broadcaster on the Voice of America) dedicated two of his regular programs to Prohaska and his music.[1]

As a composer he is mainly known for his jazz music, but he also made a number of compositions for symphony orchestras, as well as music arrangements for popular Croatian singers such as Josipa Lisac, Gabi Novak and Arsen Dedić.[2] Some of his compositions premiered at the Carnegie Hall in New York City and in Paris and were performed by the Modern Jazz Quartet, the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra and the Paris Philharmonic Orchestra.[1] He also worked as a score composer for a number of television and theatre plays, animated and films, ballets and choirs, and scored fifteen Croatian feature films. More recently, Prohaska occasionally works with the Zagreb Saxophone Quartet, the Zagreb Soloists, the Croatian Radiotelevision's Symphony Orchestra and their Big Band, and many others.

He is a longtime member of the Croatian Composers' Society and had served as its president twice (1967–1968 and 1988–1990).[1] Prohaska won numerous numerous awards for his work, including the Golden Arena for Best Film Music (1968),[3] the Vladimir Nazor Award for Life Achievement (1988) and the Porin Award for Life Achievement (1995).[1]

 



Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: cjvinthechair on August 22, 2012, 07:05:44 pm
Oh dear, Mr. Jowcol, had better download your jazz themed music before we are all summararily banned ! Sure it's well up to the standards of the lovely music you've presented us with in the past Thank you.


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: MVS on September 17, 2012, 07:46:10 pm
re:  Sakac:  Matrix Symphony

 http://www.mediafire.com/view/?e1jrn044dq5wh8d (http://www.mediafire.com/view/?e1jrn044dq5wh8d)

(Should have included this with the downloads, but...)


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Ulalume on October 28, 2012, 05:21:04 pm
The file of Sulek fifth symphony seems unzipable. I have downloaded it twice, but the zip file opens with an error warning and doesn't work. The file of Sulek's third works fine.


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Elroel on October 28, 2012, 05:42:28 pm
My copy of Sulek's 5th looks good. But that is from an earlier download(June).

If necessary I can re-upload it?


Elroel


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Dundonnell on October 28, 2012, 11:43:42 pm
I have had the same problem with the Sulek 5th, Roelef :(


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: fr8nks on October 29, 2012, 01:28:33 am
I just uploaded a new link for the Sulek 5th Symphony. Please let me know if there are still problems.


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Dundonnell on October 29, 2012, 01:39:30 am
I just uploaded a new link for the Sulek 5th Symphony. Please let me know if there are still problems.

No problem this time :)


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Ulalume on October 29, 2012, 04:59:51 pm
I just uploaded a new link for the Sulek 5th Symphony. Please let me know if there are still problems.

Thanks !


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: kyjo on December 31, 2012, 04:16:21 am
Many thanks, Sicmu, for the Blagoje Bersa piece :) :)

Bersa has always been a composer I have wanted to hear more of since hearing his beautiful, lush symphonic poem The Sunny Fields :)


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Dundonnell on January 19, 2013, 02:24:23 pm
I think we owe a huge vote of thanks to ttle for the massive upload of Bjelinski symphonies :)


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: ttle on January 19, 2013, 03:12:17 pm
It was a pleasure   ;D


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: kyjo on January 20, 2013, 12:37:43 am
I think we owe a huge vote of thanks to ttle for the massive upload of Bersa symphonies :)

You mean Bjelinski ;D

Many, many thanks from me as well, Ttle :) :) Bjelinski's music has long been on my wish-to-hear list. Apparently he composer fifteen symphonies in total!


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Latvian on January 20, 2013, 01:21:34 am
Quote
Bjelinski's music has long been on my wish-to-hear list. Apparently he composer fifteen symphonies in total!

Plus six sinfoniettas!


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: kyjo on January 20, 2013, 01:25:22 am
Quite a productive man, I see! His countryman and contemporary, Boris Papandopulo, was also enormously prolific.


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Dundonnell on January 20, 2013, 01:35:48 am
I think we owe a huge vote of thanks to ttle for the massive upload of Bersa symphonies :)

You mean Bjelinski ;D

Many, many thanks from me as well, Ttle :) :) Bjelinski's music has long been on my wish-to-hear list. Apparently he composer fifteen symphonies in total!

So many new Downloads ;D  My head is spinning like a top ;D


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Toby Esterhase on January 21, 2013, 12:58:04 am
I think we owe a huge vote of thanks to ttle for the massive upload of Bersa symphonies :)

You mean Bjelinski ;D

Many, many thanks from me as well, Ttle :) :) Bjelinski's music has long been on my wish-to-hear list. Apparently he composer fifteen symphonies in total!

So many new Downloads ;D  My head is spinning like a top ;D

Maybe that Bjelinski hasn't been recorded on cd yet?


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: kyjo on January 21, 2013, 01:13:58 am
It appears that only one work of Bjelinski's has made it to CD: his Clarinet Sonata, which is on this Crystal Records CD:

(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/full/25/259326.JPG)

As has been mentioned earlier, his Cello Concerto no. 1 and Symphony no. 9 are available on mp3 albums from Amazon.

 :)


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: guest140 on January 21, 2013, 05:06:38 am
The Concertino di primavera is on a Jecklin CD (Jecklin JS 277-2)


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: kyjo on January 21, 2013, 05:24:39 am
Thanks for the info, but I cannot seem to find that particular CD. Jecklin CDs are notoriously difficult to get ahold of ::)

BTW I found some more Bjelinski on YT: his Concerto for clarinet and strings, Divertimento for orchestra, Three Biblical Legends for trombone and piano, a Sinfonietta and part of his Cello Concerto no. 1:

Concerto (I): http://youtu.be/zeWjcOQ6EOA
Concerto (II): http://youtu.be/t4RMPeVONXM
Concerto (III):  http://youtu.be/TOIs8Rjq9rY
Concerto (IV): http://youtu.be/D7VWFBwSBCs
Divertimento: http://youtu.be/02LnXZAyaXk
Biblical Legends: http://youtu.be/cR01CDU8ZeE
Sinfonietta: http://youtu.be/tA33h8gf468
CC 1 (excerpt): http://youtu.be/JFvV9nJ1u8A

 :)


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Elroel on January 21, 2013, 09:13:31 am
The Bjelinki Sinfomietta on YT is not complete. Only part I is there


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: kyjo on January 24, 2013, 10:34:40 pm
Many thanks, Ttle, for the Sulek Organ Concerto :)

Good heavens.....this composer is well-represented in our downloads ;D

....and none the worse for that :)


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: ttle on January 24, 2013, 10:40:22 pm
Yes indeed  ;D
It is a pleasure. Maybe an Art-Music forum lobby can convince Mr. Heymann that Sulek is not such an 'obscure' composer! 8) After all, more or less once a year, one or another of his symphonies is performed in concert by one of the main two Zagreb orchestras, some of his instrumental concertos every once in a while, and then there are the classical concertos, the sonatas, the quartets...


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: shamus on January 25, 2013, 10:04:33 pm
I would like to add my thanks to ttle for the Sulek organ concerto. I have collected organ concertos all my music-appreciating life and this one is one of the most beautiful and powerful I have heard. My ideal of most heavenly would be a big all-out late romantic or early 20th Century concerto for organ and piano that would give me the shivers all the way through, like the beginning of the last movement of St. Saens Symphony 3 where the organ comes in full, then the piano joins in and they dialogue for the briefest of ecstatic moments. Oh my, let me take a chill pill.   :)


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: kyjo on January 25, 2013, 10:17:55 pm
My ideal of most heavenly would be a big all-out late romantic or early 20th Century concerto for organ and piano that would give me the shivers all the way through, like the beginning of the last movement of St. Saens Symphony 3 where the organ comes in full, then the piano joins in and they dialogue for the briefest of ecstatic moments. Oh my, let me take a chill pill.   :)

 ;D ;D

That would be totally awesome (as kids these days would say) ;D

BTW have you heard Petr Eben's huge Concerto gregoriano (Organ Concerto no. 1), which is on an Oehms CD? Epic and Mahlerian don't even begin to describe it ;D


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: fr8nks on January 26, 2013, 10:10:47 pm
Did anyone else pick up on the quote throughout  the second movement of Sulek's Organ Concerto of the Christmas carol "The First Noel"?


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: shamus on January 27, 2013, 03:07:24 am
Yes, I heard the First Noel, too, wondered if it meant anything, lovely in any case.


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Latvian on January 27, 2013, 05:13:34 pm
Quote
Yes, I heard the First Noel, too, wondered if it meant anything, lovely in any case.

Sulek seems to quote other music in his works quite regularly. I'm sure there must be some significance, but have not read anywhere what it may be. Perhaps ttle can enlighten us?

The last two movements of the 6th Symphony appear to quote a distinctive figure from Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet. The 7th Symphony quotes Bruckner. The 8th Symphony quotes Tchaikovsky's Romeo and Juliet. I'm sure other works have quote as well, that are perhaps less obvious.


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: cjvinthechair on January 28, 2013, 03:36:27 pm
I would like to add my thanks to ttle for the Sulek organ concerto.

Sitting in my holiday hotel in N. Cyprus enjoying it now.....because it's raining (better than the snow we left in GB, though !). Lovely, thanks !


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: ttle on January 29, 2013, 09:46:38 pm
There is also a very clear quote from Bruckner's Seventh in the slow part of the Sixth Symphony. Šulek's use of quotations must have been documented and I shall try to find references discussing them. Here is, however, part of the tribute paid by Stanko Horvat, one of his students and himself a major Croatian composer of his generation (in a relatively traditional vein):
It seems to me worth mentioning that Maestro Šulek attained his skills as a composer almost completely alone, without a teacher to look at, or better to say to many teachers he was choosing by himself, and he chose the greatest ones: Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, Wagner,... and remained always faithful to them. The fact that an extraordinary talent looks back at past in his creation deserves special study and consideration. For me, this is a kind of anticipation of phenomena we are witnesses of today, especially in literature and fine arts, anticipation of post-modernistic phenomena and of emergence of authors “with memory”, as they say today. Master Šulek is an author “with memory”, and, as Borges and Eco write about books from past ages, so does Master Šulek speak in his scores about the music of the past. As much as we might have been surprised and puzzled by such an attitude, as we were growing older, having actively participated in the turbulent developments in music, we started to turn more and more to the past, finding beauty, peace, order and human dignity in it, all the things our unsettled age has been depriving us of.
cf. http://wam.hr/sadrzaj/us/Sulek_Horvat.pdf
and another interesting survey by musicologist Eva Sedak:
http://wam.hr/sadrzaj/us/Sulek_Sedak.pdf
(the latter suffering from what seems to be a "classic" distorsion from elaborate Croatian to convoluted English, but still worth reading).


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Latvian on January 29, 2013, 11:09:32 pm
Very interesting, ttle -- thanks for posting this. I look forward to any additional information you're able to uncover!


Title: Re: Croatian Music Sulek
Post by: Jolly Roger on July 19, 2013, 03:19:40 am
Sulek is one of the finest composers and most gifted orchestrator I have encountered in a long time.
Some say he may be guilty of pouring some old wine into new bottles, and milking his themes a bit,
but he is someone who should never be missed.
IMHO, his 8th symphony sounds mch like a tribute to the human spirit (ala Beethoven's 9th)..and was a revelation to me.
I have not heard anyone else who gets such an awesome fullness from an orchestra  - and this piece would certainly
bring the house down. It should be much better known and played much more frequently.
I would love,love,love to see these pieces here as well:

Epitaf (1971) symphony?
Runke (1972) symphony?
First Piano Concerto (1949)
Second Piano Concerto (1952)
Fourth Classical Concerto (1983)
Ballet-De Veritate (1977)








Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Elroel on July 19, 2013, 10:37:59 am
The 4th Orchestral Concerto of Sulke is on YT

http://youtu.be/HxVH1UgVfcQ


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: ttle on July 19, 2013, 11:07:56 am
The 4th Orchestral Concerto of Sulke is on YT

http://youtu.be/HxVH1UgVfcQ

Actually, as I mentioned in the comments on that page, the 4th classical concerto is very different (and slightly less convincing than the previous three in my humble opinion). What you can hear here is Two Interludes from the opera Koriolan. Gripping music indeed.


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: ttle on July 19, 2013, 04:52:42 pm
Here it is :)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/js33sv9y726ogak/Sulek_ct-classique4.mp3

Stjepan Šulek (1914-1986)
Fourth Classical Concerto (1983)
Allegro moderato - Andante - Allegro
Croatian Radio-Television Symphony Orchestra / Nikša Bareza

recorded from Croatian Radio HR3


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Jolly Roger on July 21, 2013, 10:40:18 pm
Here it is :)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/js33sv9y726ogak/Sulek_ct-classique4.mp3

Stjepan Šulek (1914-1986)
Fourth Classical Concerto (1983)
Allegro moderato - Andante - Allegro
Croatian Radio-Television Symphony Orchestra / Nikša Bareza

recorded from Croatian Radio HR3
Thanks for this and all the Sulek you have posted..he is a marvelous composer!!
I hope he developes a strong and influential advocacy...Naxos...where are you??


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: kyjo on July 21, 2013, 11:00:06 pm
Thanks for this and all the Sulek you have posted..he is a marvelous composer!!
I hope he developes a strong and influential advocacy...Naxos...where are you??

It couldn't hurt to send Klaus Heymann (Naxos) or Burkhard Schmilgun (CPO) an e-mail regarding Sulek :) I would think CPO would be more interested than Naxos in recording such repertoire, but I could be wrong!


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Jolly Roger on July 22, 2013, 12:38:23 am
Thanks for this and all the Sulek you have posted..he is a marvelous composer!!
I hope he developes a strong and influential advocacy...Naxos...where are you??

It couldn't hurt to send Klaus Heymann (Naxos) or Burkhard Schmilgun (CPO) an e-mail regarding Sulek :) I would think CPO would be more interested than Naxos in recording such repertoire, but I could be wrong!
anything I could do to further the Sulek's cause..do you have the email addresses for these gentlemen?
I'm also thinking that the adventurous Warren Cohen of MuscaNova may have an interest:
http://www.musicanovaaz.com/
http://www.musicanovamusings.org/


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: kyjo on July 22, 2013, 03:58:31 am
anything I could do to further the Sulek's cause..do you have the email addresses for these gentlemen?
I'm also thinking that the adventurous Warren Cohen of MuscaNova may have an interest:
http://www.musicanovaaz.com/
http://www.musicanovamusings.org/

Hmmmm....finding the e-mail addresses of Heymann and Schmilgun has proved more difficult than I had thought. I checked the Naxos and CPO websites-no luck there! I believe you can register to this website: http://www.classicalnext.com/ to find out the e-mail addresses of notable musicians and record company owners. If that doesn't work, please let me know!


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Jolly Roger on July 22, 2013, 04:14:35 am
anything I could do to further the Sulek's cause..do you have the email addresses for these gentlemen?
I'm also thinking that the adventurous Warren Cohen of MuscaNova may have an interest:
http://www.musicanovaaz.com/
http://www.musicanovamusings.org/

Hmmmm....finding the e-mail addresses of Heymann and Schmilgun has proved more difficult than I had thought. I checked the Naxos and CPO websites-no luck there! I believe you can register to this website: http://www.classicalnext.com/ to find out the e-mail addresses of notable musicians and record company owners. If that doesn't work, please let me know!
Will do, I understand some members here (Eric Schissel) have communicated with Heyman..
BIS,Ondine and perhaps Albany or Chandos would bite..I'll check it out..
and there is also Rob Barnett here, he has had a profound impact on my musical choices:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/contrib/barnett.htm



Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: kyjo on July 22, 2013, 04:20:45 am
Will do, I understand some members here (Eric Schissel) have communicated with Heyman..
BIS,Ondine and perhaps Albany or Chandos would bite..I'll check it out..
and there is also Rob Barnett here, he has had a profound impact on my musical choices:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/contrib/barnett.htm

I didn't know Eric was a member here! And yes, Rob Barnett is an excellent reviewer and enthusiast of the byways of classical music!


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: JimL on July 22, 2013, 06:08:18 am
If any of you guys are on Facebook, Klaus Heymann has an account there.  I have communicated with him via that network.


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: ttle on July 23, 2013, 08:55:37 pm
If any of you guys are on Facebook, Klaus Heymann has an account there.  I have communicated with him via that network.
Same with me... And there he told me that Sulek was "too obscure" for Naxos. (Quite a questionable assessment, I would say, with due recognition of all that Naxos and HNH has achieved over the years.)


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: kyjo on July 23, 2013, 09:01:41 pm
If any of you guys are on Facebook, Klaus Heymann has an account there.  I have communicated with him via that network.
Same with me... And there he told me that Sulek was "too obscure" for Naxos. (Quite a questionable assessment, I would say, with due recognition of all that Naxos and HNH has achieved over the years.)

I kind of suspected Mr. Heymann would say something like that. I sincerely hope Naxos doesn't go down the same undesirable route as BIS ::) Could anyone try convincing Herr Schmilgun-perhaps he would be more interested? :-\


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Jolly Roger on July 26, 2013, 02:28:21 am
If any of you guys are on Facebook, Klaus Heymann has an account there.  I have communicated with him via that network.
Same with me... And there he told me that Sulek was "too obscure" for Naxos. (Quite a questionable assessment, I would say, with due recognition of all that Naxos and HNH has achieved over the years.)

I kind of suspected Mr. Heymann would say something like that. I sincerely hope Naxos doesn't go down the same undesirable route as BIS ::) Could anyone try convincing Herr Schmilgun-perhaps he would be more interested? :-\
Obscure?? How does one counter that statement? An enterprising sponsor (Like Novartis Pharma) could co-sponsor a debut of Radio Croatia Symphony for pennies on the dollar and finance it that way..I trust Croatia is not too obscure for everyone else.

Sulek is certainly not obscure to members of this forum or now to Utube where several of his works are showing up as "must Hear".
Following an email to Rob Barnett, he alerted me to this fact and is assessing Sulek as we speak.
Before Heyman controlled Marco Polo, many wonderful but obscure composers saw the light of day there.
Maybe this is his wake up call..


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Jolly Roger on July 26, 2013, 02:32:44 am
Will do, I understand some members here (Eric Schissel) have communicated with Heyman..
BIS,Ondine and perhaps Albany or Chandos would bite..I'll check it out..
and there is also Rob Barnett here, he has had a profound impact on my musical choices:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/contrib/barnett.htm

I didn't know Eric was a member here! And yes, Rob Barnett is an excellent reviewer and enthusiast of the byways of classical music!
sorry, perhaps Eric is still buried with the myopic romantics at uc.


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: kyjo on July 26, 2013, 02:56:37 am
Obscure?? How does one counter that statement? An enterprising sponsor (Like Novartis Pharma) could co-sponsor a debut of Radio Croatia Symphony for pennies on the dollar and finance it that way..I trust Croatia is not too obscure for everyone else.

Naxos has recently released two discs of the music of Marcel Tyberg, for example. Before the release of the first disc, Tyberg was virtually unknown. Even the most ardent music scholars would have never heard of him. So what makes Sulek so "obscure"? Certainly he is less obscure at the present moment than Tyberg was before the release of the first Naxos disc of his music? Just a thought :)


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Jolly Roger on July 26, 2013, 08:01:35 am
Obscure?? How does one counter that statement? An enterprising sponsor (Like Novartis Pharma) could co-sponsor a debut of Radio Croatia Symphony for pennies on the dollar and finance it that way..I trust Croatia is not too obscure for everyone else.

Naxos has recently released two discs of the music of Marcel Tyberg, for example. Before the release of the first disc, Tyberg was virtually unknown. Even the most ardent music scholars would have never heard of him. So what makes Sulek so "obscure"? Certainly he is less obscure at the present moment than Tyberg was before the release of the first Naxos disc of his music? Just a thought :)

Perhaps Tyberg had wealthy and political advocates..IMHO, his music is not nearly the quality of Sulek's...


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: kyjo on July 26, 2013, 10:26:32 pm
Perhaps Tyberg had wealthy and political advocates..IMHO, his music is not nearly the quality of Sulek's...

That's very likely. Tyberg's music is worth resurrecting IMO (I have a soft spot for his Brucknerian/Mahlerian Symphony no. 3), but his music does not speak with a powerful individual voice as does Sulek's.


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Latvian on July 27, 2013, 01:06:40 am
I can think of MANY composers whose music appears on Naxos and is nowhere near the quality, appeal, or originality of Sulek's.

Politics, money, taste (or lack thereof), influence, personal bias... alas, all serve to keep many deserving names in the shadows. Not necessarily with malice, just unfortunate lack of powerful advocates.


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: kyjo on July 27, 2013, 01:29:11 am
Spot-on, Maris. I am seriously wondering whether Heymann has heard any of Sulek's music....had he heard it, I'd think he'd be jumping all over conductors and orchestras to record it, such is its quality! I would find it hard to believe if Heymann actually disliked Sulek's music, but perhaps he does :-\ We need to start a Sulek society!


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Jolly Roger on July 27, 2013, 01:54:27 am
Perhaps Tyberg had wealthy and political advocates..IMHO, his music is not nearly the quality of Sulek's...

That's very likely. Tyberg's music is worth resurrecting IMO (I have a soft spot for his Brucknerian/Mahlerian Symphony no. 3), but his music does not speak with a powerful individual voice as does Sulek's.
Very well said..this has prompted me to revisit Tyberg's music. One thing is certain, Sulek certainly did get my attention.


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: ttle on July 28, 2013, 07:23:23 pm
Spot-on, Maris. I am seriously wondering whether Heymann has heard any of Sulek's music....had he heard it, I'd think he'd be jumping all over conductors and orchestras to record it, such is its quality! I would find it hard to believe if Heymann actually disliked Sulek's music, but perhaps he does :-\ We need to start a Sulek society!

Well, I tried - I posted Šulek's 6th on his wall a few months ago ;D Probably he did not bother to hear it, but if others have, then who knows. To be fair, Heymann created HNH in the first place and his economic model allowed to record things one would never have dreamt of seeing distributed on that scale. He could still revive his "Patrimoine" series: sell the Šulek at low price in Croatia, at full price elsewhere for a start and see what happens. This being said, Šulek's symphonies, more than most I think, demand top class orchestras and conductors who really believe in them. Horvat would have been great, but he probably stopped conducting by now. Pavle Dešpalj can be excellent when he is inspired. Then, one would need the Vienna Philharmonic, or a Zagreb Philharmonic with plenty of rehearsing time :) CPO is more likely to go there, their recording of Dora Pejačević's symphony is a bit slow but does justice to many beautiful orchestral details.

Then we also need a complete series of Ivan Brkanović's symphonies. This is completely different music, more elemental and archaic in a way, but very strong and profound. Amazingly tempi differ widely from one performance to another.


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Jolly Roger on July 28, 2013, 10:04:11 pm
Spot-on, Maris. I am seriously wondering whether Heymann has heard any of Sulek's music....had he heard it, I'd think he'd be jumping all over conductors and orchestras to record it, such is its quality! I would find it hard to believe if Heymann actually disliked Sulek's music, but perhaps he does :-\ We need to start a Sulek society!

Well, I tried - I posted Šulek's 6th on his wall a few months ago ;D Probably he did not bother to hear it, but if others have, then who knows. To be fair, Heymann created HNH in the first place and his economic model allowed to record things one would never have dreamt of seeing distributed on that scale. He could still revive his "Patrimoine" series: sell the Šulek at low price in Croatia, at full price elsewhere for a start and see what happens. This being said, Šulek's symphonies, more than most I think, demand top class orchestras and conductors who really believe in them. Horvat would have been great, but he probably stopped conducting by now. Pavle Dešpalj can be excellent when he is inspired. Then, one would need the Vienna Philharmonic, or a Zagreb Philharmonic with plenty of rehearsing time :) CPO is more likely to go there, their recording of Dora Pejačević's symphony is a bit slow but does justice to many beautiful orchestral details.

Then we also need a complete series of Ivan Brkanović's symphonies. This is completely different music, more elemental and archaic in a way, but very strong and profound. Amazingly tempi differ widely from one performance to another.
Your point about Sulek's music requiring skilled musicians is very well taken, I the Czech or Slovak Orchestras would also do it justice providing the right conductor was at the helm. I also wonder if Sulek could bring Dutton out of their present agonizing doldrums.
And there are possibly Croatian-Amercian groups, and why has no one set up a Sulek Musical Society? 
BBC or Swedish radio sometimes also take more adventurous paths..BBC did have a program on Croatian music, but Suleks music was too lengthy I suspect.
Perhaps international corporate interests in Craotia would be helpful allies?
For some strange reason, I have had little reaction from Rob Barrett..Just some bland statements about the music being tragic and written in hard times.
He was to let me know his sentiments on the Violin Concerto, but have not heard back.
His background and musical preferences are much in tune with mine:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/contrib/barnett.htm
and his email
rob.barnett1@btinternet.com

Go figure..

Ivan Brkanović's music is totally unknown to me..are there examples to be found?


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: kyjo on July 29, 2013, 02:38:42 am
Ivan Brkanović's music is totally unknown to me..are there examples to be found?

The only piece of his I could find is this Concertino for strings:

http://youtu.be/Gs60wvBDcsU


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Holger on July 29, 2013, 07:31:01 am
Check the archives of the old UC forum: ttle once uploaded Brkanović's "Triptihon", a kind of folk requiem (subtitled "Folk Mourning Ritual"), and actually a highly impressive and intense work of archaic power. Scenes of grief and lament finally lead into a wild dance of unreined vigour and passion. I just checked things out, the link is still valid. In my opinion, Brkanović is not less interesting that Šulek, especially since his works are very different from Šulek's indeed. Another major figure in Croatian music for sure.


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: JimL on July 31, 2013, 10:02:17 pm
Will do, I understand some members here (Eric Schissel) have communicated with Heyman..
BIS,Ondine and perhaps Albany or Chandos would bite..I'll check it out..
and there is also Rob Barnett here, he has had a profound impact on my musical choices:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/contrib/barnett.htm

I didn't know Eric was a member here! And yes, Rob Barnett is an excellent reviewer and enthusiast of the byways of classical music!
sorry, perhaps Eric is still buried with the myopic romantics at uc.
Eric is still there.  I've tried to lure him over here, but so far, no dice.


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: kyjo on July 31, 2013, 10:17:14 pm
Eric is still there.  I've tried to lure him over here, but so far, no dice.

Wonder why he won't come over here ??? I know he has an interest in 20th-century music as well. I will, for the sake of the order, painfully restrain myself from going on a UC rant :-X


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Jolly Roger on July 31, 2013, 11:52:08 pm
Eric is still there.  I've tried to lure him over here, but so far, no dice.

Wonder why he won't come over here ??? I know he has an interest in 20th-century music as well. I will, for the sake of the order, painfully restrain myself from going on a UC rant :-X
What is "the order"?
Maybe he enjoys provoking tirades re the definition of Romantic music. I know he loves some of the music which they disdain and I suspect he will eventually capitulate. Since I have a preference(I said preference) for late 19th, 20th and current century composers, I often run afoul of the mandates. And when they declared Edmund Rubba as another another untouchable non-romantic, I felt that they were unworthy of any reasoned response. (I do return when I feel mischevious)


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: kyjo on August 01, 2013, 01:53:39 am
What is "the order"?
Maybe he enjoys provoking tirades re the definition of Romantic music. I know he loves some of the music which they disdain and I suspect he will eventually capitulate. Since I have a preference(I said preference) for late 19th, 20th and current century composers, I often run afoul of the mandates. And when they declared Edmund Rubba as another another untouchable non-romantic, I felt that they were unworthy of any reasoned response. (I do return when I feel mischevious)

It seems like even late-romantic music provokes some controversy over there. I read one post that said that Sibelius was at the "outer fringes" of their remit ::) I wasn't surprised by Rubbra conflicting with the remit; after all, Alwyn's Lyra Angelica, one of the most beautiful works of the 20th century, was deemed not "romantic" enough! But what does it matter, we have the A-MF ;D

P.S. This thread is about Croatian music!


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Jolly Roger on August 01, 2013, 02:01:14 am
What is "the order"?
Maybe he enjoys provoking tirades re the definition of Romantic music. I know he loves some of the music which they disdain and I suspect he will eventually capitulate. Since I have a preference(I said preference) for late 19th, 20th and current century composers, I often run afoul of the mandates. And when they declared Edmund Rubba as another another untouchable non-romantic, I felt that they were unworthy of any reasoned response. (I do return when I feel mischevious)

It seems like even late-romantic music provokes some controversy over there. I read one post that said that Sibelius was at the "outer fringes" of their remit ::) I wasn't surprised by Rubbra conflicting with the remit; after all, Alwyn's Lyra Angelica, one of the most beautiful works of the 20th century, was deemed not "romantic" enough! But what does it matter, we have the A-MF ;D

P.S. This thread is about Croatian music!

Sorry for the diversion..some things just can't be fixed..


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: kyjo on August 01, 2013, 02:09:37 am
Sorry for the diversion..some things just can't be fixed..

Quite alright, JR (may I call you that?)! If you would like to discuss sensitive topics such as this, PMs are the best solution.


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Jolly Roger on August 01, 2013, 08:09:46 am
Sorry for the diversion..some things just can't be fixed..

Quite alright, JR (may I call you that?)! If you would like to discuss sensitive topics such as this, PMs are the best solution.
Agreed...sorry about that as well..


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: cilgwyn on August 01, 2013, 01:45:06 pm
Eric is still there.  I've tried to lure him over here, but so far, no dice.

Wonder why he won't come over here ??? I know he has an interest in 20th-century music as well. I will, for the sake of the order, painfully restrain myself from going on a UC rant :-X
What is "the order"?
Maybe he enjoys provoking tirades re the definition of Romantic music. I know he loves some of the music which they disdain and I suspect he will eventually capitulate. Since I have a preference(I said preference) for late 19th, 20th and current century composers, I often run afoul of the mandates. And when they declared Edmund Rubba as another another untouchable non-romantic, I felt that they were unworthy of any reasoned response. (I do return when I feel mischevious)
I understand,but,it should be noted,some UC members peruse,and I believe,use this forum so take care Jolly Roger! Personally,I DO actually like the focus they've got over there now. Also there are allot of extremely interesting theads for people,like me,who like Raff,Spohr,Anton Rubinstein & their like;and some of the members there have done some sterling work for these composers. Meanwhile,over here at the AMF,we can concentrate on the kind of music we like,I can start an Anton Rubinstein thread if I want to,enthuse about my George Lloyd collection (1 cassette at the moment! :() or talk about Iannis Xenakis or Harrison Birtwistle! :o ;D Everyone's a winner!!

 And then there is the little manner of Croatian music!! ;D The subject of this thread!!!  I really am going to have to hear this composer Sulek who is garnering such  a high level of praise here. I must confess I don't know any of his music! I just looked up his Wikipedia entry. Has any of his music been uploaded here? (I shall have a look a bit later when I have more time) He seems to have been quite prolific. Where should I start? I should point out I enjoy instrumental & chamber music as well as orchestral music. Over to you kyjo (or another member?).



Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Ulalume on August 01, 2013, 05:28:12 pm
A lot of works by Sulek have been uploaded here, some of them are also on youtube. I would recommend :

- Last Adam a cantata that reminds me of Sibelius for some reasons (maybe the sonority of the language)
- Organ Concerto "Memento" a sort of Bach/Liszt homage with added features (military drums notably)
- Symphony n°6 a fruit salad with Tchaikovsky, Bruckner or Prokofiev being the fruits
- Classical Concerto n°2 for string orchestra
- Two Interludes from Coriolan a short work which might be a good introduction to Sulek.

I have come to the provisional conclusion that the impression left by Sulek's works is more related to the intensity of the interpretation than the expressivity of the work itself. Many of the other broadcasts are conducted by Pavle Despalj, a tireless champion of the composer, but I find him - maybe harshly - a tepid conductor.

I have just discovered this article about the british premieres of Sulek second symphony and Hartmann fourth. I don't know if political ideology is an obsession of the author or of the time :
 
http://archive.spectator.co.uk/article/28th-october-1955/20/music

Also I have found an organ piece Triptih that may have eluded some aficionados (the interpretation is a bit tentative) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p1OMoRcUNQ


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Latvian on August 01, 2013, 06:15:52 pm
Quote
I really am going to have to hear this composer Sulek who is garnering such  a high level of praise here. I must confess I don't know any of his music! I just looked up his Wikipedia entry. Has any of his music been uploaded here? (I shall have a look a bit later when I have more time) He seems to have been quite prolific. Where should I start? I should point out I enjoy instrumental & chamber music as well as orchestral music. Over to you kyjo (or another member?).

I can't recommend Sulek highly enough. I've been a fan of his for over 30 years. The first 25 of those years I only had access to a handful of works, but more recently (thanks in great part to this forum and UC), I've come to hear many, many more works. The more I hear, the more I like it.

My suggestion is to start with what I consider his strongest work, the 6th Symphony. It most certainly doesn't yield all its secrets on first hearing, but is tremendously rewarding upon further acquaintance.


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Malito on August 02, 2013, 03:49:14 am
I'm a big fan of Sulek as well.  I love the 5th and 6th symphonies especially.  Wish we had a better recording of the Violin Concerto.  I am also a nut for anything by Blaz Arnic, a Slovenian, whose other works I would love to have.  Malito


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Latvian on August 02, 2013, 01:11:15 pm
Quote
I am also a nut for anything by Blaz Arnic, a Slovenian, whose other works I would love to have.

Yes! I would love to see more of his symphonies uploaded!


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: cilgwyn on August 02, 2013, 04:02:28 pm
Thank you very much for these suggestions. I will investigate this composer at the first opportunity! :)


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Jolly Roger on August 04, 2013, 10:59:34 pm
Sorry for the diversion..some things just can't be fixed..

Quite alright, JR (may I call you that?)! If you would like to discuss sensitive topics such as this, PMs are the best solution.
Agreed...sorry about that as well..
Ok..still off the thread, but
JR might be a bit misleading (Junior?) as I am 72 years old kyjo.
But you are an awesome contributor here and any message would be of great value to me.
Besides, JR will make me feel young again.
BTW - Your picture, is that Rachmaninoff?? Now I must find one for Miaskovsky.
PM's are the preferred route here, but not sure how to do that.
If you send one or direct me to the instructions, It would be very helpful.
JR


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: kyjo on August 04, 2013, 11:34:41 pm
Ok..still off the thread, but
JR might be a bit misleading (Junior?) as I am 72 years old kyjo.
But you are an awesome contributor here and any message would be of great value to me.
Besides, JR will make me feel young again.
BTW - Your picture, is that Rachmaninoff?? Now I must find one for Miaskovsky.
PM's are the preferred route here, but not sure how to do that.
If you send one or direct me to the instructions, It would be very helpful.
JR

Thanks for the kind words :) I have enjoyed your contributions here and I see we have very similar tastes! Yes, that is Rachmaninov, my very favorite composer. He's been up there quite a while-I think I might change my "avatar" to a lesser-known composer who I admire. Look out for an avatar change in the near future! Miaskovsky is a great composer-I'd love to see him on your avatar! Sending PMs are quite simple-just go to the profile of the member you want to send a PM to, and near the bottom there will be an option that says "send this member a personal message". If you have any problems, please let me know :) Also, glad
I could help you feel young again ;D


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Jolly Roger on August 05, 2013, 01:00:40 am
Before more more time passes, I just wanted to thank ttle for his absolutely invaluable musical posts.
I am quite overwhelmed with Sulek and nearly so with Bjelinski (the 7th absolutely blew me away).

In a related matter, I found it odd that a recent BBC broadcast or Croatian music excluded Sulek and that
what appears to be a Croatian State sponsored on Utube site is void of his music as well.
https://www.youtube.com/user/CroClassicalMusic/videos

I do not think Sulek fell into disrepute, but even Klaus Heymann (Naxos) ignored him. Maybe no one is capable of performing as well
as the music posted here.
I had the horrifying thought that we may be overhyping his music, but have not seen evidence of that at this forum.
Again, Rob Barnett was only patronizing in his response to me, perhaps others can get him to be more definitive..
Let's keep up the good fight..

I see that somesome Sulek reached BIS and Naxos, but what pitiful examples:
He was a magnificent Orchestrator, so what on earth does anyone gain from a sonata (for trombone, no less.)

Crystal
Sonata for Trombone "Vox Gabrieli" by Stjepan Sulek
Performer:  Ralph Sauer (Trombone)
Period: 20th Century
Written: 1973; Yugoslavia

BIS - 2 releases
Sonata for Trombone "Vox Gabrieli" by Stjepan Sulek
Performer:  Christian Lindberg (Trombone), Roland Pöntinen (Piano)
Period: 20th Century
Written: 1973; Yugoslavia
Date of Recording: 11/1983
Venue:  Nacka Hall, Nacka, Sweden
Length: 7 Minutes 34 Secs.

Naxos
The Troubadours Three by Stjepan Sulek
Performer:  Ana Vidovic (Guitar)
Period: 20th Century







Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Latvian on August 05, 2013, 04:43:50 pm
Quote
I do not think Sulek fell into disrepute

I don't think Sulek ever fell into disrepute in his homeland, though the political changes in Croatia and the former Yugoslavia may certainly have played into diminished promotion of his music in the region as a whole. Internationally, I don't think Sulek ever had much of a reputation except among knowledgeable musicians and fanatical collectors.

Unfortunate, because despite the lack of interest mentioned in previous posts, I do firmly believe that Sulek is highly deserving of a substantial international reputation. It may very well be that the composer himself and a limited number of other interpreters are the only ones who have truly done justice to his music in the past, but that doesn't mean that the music itself is flawed in any way, or doesn't "travel." It may take a little extra effort to appreciate it for Mr. Heymann and others, requiring time they're not willing to commit.

Once upon a time, it could be said that Janis Ivanovs' music didn't "travel" well. Personally, I think the Yablonsky recordings don't really convey the essence of his style authentically and convincingly, and that may have contributed to the demise of the Marco Polo/Naxos Ivanovs series with insufficient sales. However, many conductors (and not all Latvian) have shown that it can be done.

Let's keep pushing for wider recognition for Sulek!


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: ttle on August 09, 2013, 03:33:45 pm
Before more more time passes, I just wanted to thank ttle for his absolutely invaluable musical posts.
I am quite overwhelmed with Sulek and nearly so with Bjelinski (the 7th absolutely blew me away).

My pleasure really, and I cannot say how much joy you and other members here have brought to me in the past few months!

Quote
In a related matter, I found it odd that a recent BBC broadcast or Croatian music excluded Sulek and that
what appears to be a Croatian State sponsored on Utube site is void of his music as well.
https://www.youtube.com/user/CroClassicalMusic/videos

From what I know, and this is arguably not much, Šulek had definitely not fallen into disrepute in his home country. He remains by far the most performed Croatian symphonist in Zagreb, with easily one of his symphonies scheduled every year either by the Philharmonic or by the Croatian Radio and Television Symphony Orchestra.

However, he has never been spared by controversy, and his music has never been to everyone's tastes. When he started in the 1940s, he criticized the (to him) provincial, low professional standards of the Croatian musical life and this must not have gained him only friends. He and Josip Štolcer-Slavenski (arguably two of the strongest musical personalities in Croatian music) do not seem to have appreciated each other. Šulek, in a sense, tried to make up for more than a century without a great orchestral and instrumental tradition (with some notable exceptions such as Dora Pejačević) and found himself immediately at odds with modern currents of his time, so that while some music-lovers still find his pervasive chromaticism unpalatable to this day, many a composer in the next generation probably viewed him as an arch-Traditionalist. (I suspect that this also helped him remain true to himself during the post-Zhdanov years, even though the former Yugoslavia was less affected by them than most then communist countries.)

In the 1960s, he enjoyed a strong academic position, but probably musicians such as Sakač, Malec or Kelemen must have felt that they did not belong to the same era. The fact is that he did not move towards more modern idioms in the 1970s but rather backwards in time, more or less explicitly quoting great Romantic masters. Some of his symphonies, and even more his third string quartet or his fourth classical concerto, can even be a bit disturbing at first hearing, their air of déjŕ entendu not being balanced by any apparent irony or distance. All this gave the impression that his style did not evolve with time, which is not true, and that he did not have strong enough ideas to create a musical universe of his own. Arguably Šulek is not the most original composer of his time, but his music is nonetheless highly personal and recognizable as such. As stated before by several contributors, it demands very high performing quality, otherwise it can easily appear as thick, confused, inconsistent. One needs to believe in it to play it properly.

Quote
I do not think Sulek fell into disrepute, but even Klaus Heymann (Naxos) ignored him. Maybe no one is capable of performing as well as the music posted here.

There must be conductors and orchestras who could still do a lot more for it. I hardly know any recording of his music which is fully satisfactory in technical / instrumental terms. Šulek's own rendition of his Violin Concerto is quite impressive, his recordings of his 6th are strong but one could imagine still more refined contrasts and polished transitions without losing the drive. Pavle Dešpalj knows his professor's music better than maybe anyone, and his performances are often inspired (his Sinfonia Eroica from a few years ago was impressive), but sometimes a bit heavy-handed. Quite simply, it would also be interesting to hear a (very good) foreign orchestra play this music. As for Klaus Heymann, I think that he is just being ill-informed, Šulek is definitely less obscure than a number of composers championed by his record companies.

Quote
I had the horrifying thought that we may be overhyping his music, but have not seen evidence of that at this forum.

Having tried to promote it for years, I have obviously wondered whether I was not overestimating it myself! :) Honestly, I do not think so. Not all of his symphonies can claim to be up there with the 20th century greats, No. 1 is a bit clumsy at times, No. 3 has a wealth of marvellous themes and orchestral writing, but sometimes loses momentum, No. 4 is intimidating but can seem a bit stiff, No. 7 really has some problematic moments even in Dešpalj's hands. Šulek can sometimes seem to be writing "in Šulek's style". However, none of his works I know displays less than sheer talent and forceful eloquence, and at least his 2nd, 6th, maybe also 5th and 8th (despite the more than blatant homage to Bruckner's 9th) are major symphonies, not perfect maybe, but worthy of regular performances. The Last Adam is another strong utterance, the 2nd classical concerto is in a lighter vein but supremely attractive, later sonatas can make for wonderfully refined music-making if treated with the necessary care, and surely his operas must have their strengths as well.

Quote
Again, Rob Barnett was only patronizing in his response to me, perhaps others can get him to be more definitive..
Let's keep up the good fight..

Yes indeed. If Rob Barnett can be so enthusiastic about Ādolfs Skulte, whom I like very much (gripping slow movement in the 9th, for instance), there is no reason why he should overlook Šulek. There are quite a few other near-forgotten, very strong symphonies composed in Central and Eastern Europe after 1945, but very few sets of symphonies as impressive, and consistently at least good and interesting, as Šulek's.

Quote
I see that some Sulek reached BIS and Naxos, but what pitiful examples:
He was a magnificent Orchestrator, so what on earth does anyone gain from a sonata (for trombone, no less.)

Well, at least it shows that he did not rely solely on his orchestral wizardry, as some Croatian commentators almost seem to imply (as if it were the only unquestionable side of his talent).


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: ttle on August 09, 2013, 03:49:42 pm
Oh, about tragic music written in hard times :)
Rob Barnett may indirectly have a point here. Šulek is not, at least not immediately, a typical Croatian composer to whom Croatian musicians and music-lovers could relate in the way Romanians can to Enescu, Bulgarians to Vladigerov (even though not all would), Hungarians to Bartók and Kodály. There are luminous pages in Šulek's music but it is, indeed, deeply serious, the per aspera ad astra motto is often there even when not explicitly quoted, there is not a hint of a kolo, a klapa or anything from popular traditions which would suggest a lighter side (not that all klape are light-hearted, of course). In that sense, Bjelinski is sometimes quite the opposite, a very Mediterranean / Dalmatian composer, even though he hardly quotes folk music. Šulek is not closer to the "continental" neighbours of Croatia, there is none of the Hungarian affinities which can sometimes be traced in Rudolf Brucci's music, to name another great composer of Croatian descent. In naive terms, if you are looking for someone of whom you could say "now this is the Croatian Bartók", then Šulek probably is not your man (Slavenski would look more like it, even though he is claimed both by Croatia and by Serbia).
Not that it is any valid reason for Šulek's neglect, but it might not help.


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Latvian on August 10, 2013, 02:15:09 am
Thank you, ttle, for the insights, commentary, and background information on Sulek and his music!


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: guest54 on August 10, 2013, 06:50:53 am
. . . I have just discovered this article about the british premieres of Sulek second symphony and Hartmann fourth. I don't know if political ideology is an obsession of the author or of the time :
 
http://archive.spectator.co.uk/article/28th-october-1955/20/music

Many thanks to member Ulalume for drawing attention to this new Spectator Archive, of whose existence I had not until now been aware. What a marvellous resource!!!



Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: ttle on August 11, 2013, 06:59:58 pm
Thank you, ttle, for the insights, commentary, and background information on Sulek and his music!
Thank you for being the only conductor I know who so actively promotes Sulek! :)


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: ttle on August 11, 2013, 07:11:20 pm
I have just discovered this article about the british premieres of Sulek second symphony and Hartmann fourth. I don't know if political ideology is an obsession of the author or of the time :
 
http://archive.spectator.co.uk/article/28th-october-1955/20/music
This is doubly interesting, of course for mentioning a British performance of a Šulek symphony, but also for dismissing Hartmann's Fourth which is, by now, widely acknowledged as one of the best symphonies for strings from last century.

To me, Šulek's second symphony is undoubtedly a work of hope, but of a totally different kind from most celebratory post-war Soviet symphonies. I find Dešpalj's performance from a few years ago one of his most inspired. He does manage to convey the anguish in the highly chromatic second movement, the frenzy of the subsequent march (one of my friends found it to be sub-Shostakovich, probably the latter's 7th, but I fully disagree) and the almost unreal classicism of the conclusion, bar the final modal ambiguity. This, in retrospect, is one of Šulek's most excessive works, but it does hit its target, to me anyway (the same could be said of such different works as Atterberg's Sinfonia funebre or Panufnik's Sinfonia sacra).


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Jolly Roger on August 11, 2013, 10:35:05 pm
I would like to add my thanks to ttle for the Sulek organ concerto. I have collected organ concertos all my music-appreciating life and this one is one of the most beautiful and powerful I have heard. My ideal of most heavenly would be a big all-out late romantic or early 20th Century concerto for organ and piano that would give me the shivers all the way through, like the beginning of the last movement of St. Saens Symphony 3 where the organ comes in full, then the piano joins in and they dialogue for the briefest of ecstatic moments. Oh my, let me take a chill pill.   :)
The Sulek Concerto is indeed a work not to be missed and this is true for Sulek in general.

Jacques Hetu's(1938 – 2010) Organ Concerto was an overwhelming musical experiece for me.
He is one fabulous Canadian composer who is tragically unsung(as are most Canadians), but I think his
death was too recent for his music to be well known internationally,..or at least that is my hope.
IMHO His epic 5th symphony is among the finest ever penned
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_H%C3%A9tu
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/jacques-htu-composer-whose-modernist-works-never-lost-sight-of-traditional-forms-1982672.html



Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Jolly Roger on September 01, 2013, 10:08:48 pm
Yes indeed  ;D
It is a pleasure. Maybe an Art-Music forum lobby can convince Mr. Heymann that Sulek is not such an 'obscure' composer! 8) After all, more or less once a year, one or another of his symphonies is performed in concert by one of the main two Zagreb orchestras, some of his instrumental concertos every once in a while, and then there are the classical concertos, the sonatas, the quartets...
If you wonder why Sulek is neglected, look thru the thread of "Dream Concerts"..One would think Croatia is not even a country..


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: ttle on September 01, 2013, 10:59:03 pm
Yes indeed  ;D
It is a pleasure. Maybe an Art-Music forum lobby can convince Mr. Heymann that Sulek is not such an 'obscure' composer! 8) After all, more or less once a year, one or another of his symphonies is performed in concert by one of the main two Zagreb orchestras, some of his instrumental concertos every once in a while, and then there are the classical concertos, the sonatas, the quartets...
If you wonder why Sulek is neglected, look thru the thread of "Dream Concerts"..One would think Croatia is not even a country..
Well, not all countries are mentioned by all contributors, but Croatia appears not once, but twice in my suggestions...  ???


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Jolly Roger on September 02, 2013, 12:44:00 am
Yes indeed  ;D
It is a pleasure. Maybe an Art-Music forum lobby can convince Mr. Heymann that Sulek is not such an 'obscure' composer! 8) After all, more or less once a year, one or another of his symphonies is performed in concert by one of the main two Zagreb orchestras, some of his instrumental concertos every once in a while, and then there are the classical concertos, the sonatas, the quartets...
If you wonder why Sulek is neglected, look thru the thread of "Dream Concerts"..One would think Croatia is not even a country..
Well, not all countries are mentioned by all contributors, but Croatia appears not once, but twice in my suggestions...  ???
Sorry - I missed it or spoke too soon..I just wonder if it would have been included without you.
Does anyone else think Bjelinski's 7th is a masterpiece, or is this just a personal preference??


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: ttle on September 15, 2013, 02:07:54 pm
As we all know here, Stjepan Šulek is the only Croatian composer by whom, every season, at least one symphony is performed in concert in Zagreb. 2013-2014 shall be no exception, with the Croatian Radio & Television Symphony Orchestra offering an all-Šulek programme on Thursday, April 27, 2014 at 7.30pm (CET), in the Vatroslav Lisinski Concert Hall.

The conductor shall be Pavle Dešpalj, once Šulek's student, a worthy composer himself and probably the foremost performer of Šulek's orchestral music since Milan Horvat's retirement. Arguably the Seventh is not the best among the eight symphonies, but it is still well worth hearing. The soloist shall be veteran pianist and pedagogue Vladimir Krpan.

Programme:
Epitaph for a forgotten illusion
Piano concerto No. 3
Symphony No. 7


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: ttle on September 15, 2013, 02:09:08 pm
Does anyone else think Bjelinski's 7th is a masterpiece, or is this just a personal preference??
I liked it at first hearing, but oddly have not listened to it again for ages. Here it comes back on top of my list!


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: ttle on September 15, 2013, 02:41:32 pm
It is indeed one of Bjelinski's most persuasive symphonies! Formally very clear, consistently inspired in its thematic invention. Thanks for pointing it out again :)


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: ttle on October 25, 2013, 11:54:53 pm
Here is a chance, however tiny, however commercial, to raise some awareness...
http://www.my.deutschegrammophon.com/symphony-voting/#_=


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: calyptorhynchus on January 18, 2014, 06:07:34 am
I find it extraordinary that Šulek is so little recorded, you would have thought that his obvious influences from Mahler would have meant German record companies at least would be on it him.

I've just been listening to the his fifth (I think all his symphonies are impressive, but the fifth is extra impressive). I love the way he finds new sonorities to play with, often involving low instruments: tubas, bass clarinets &c. I believe in the fifth symphony he uses a bass oboe (Heckelphone), a rare instrument, but perhaps someone who as seen the score an comment.


Title: Re: Croatian Music
Post by: Corentin Boissier on March 07, 2015, 10:04:09 am
The link of Blagoje Bersa's Dramatic Overture is dead :
Bersa, Blagoje (1873-1934)
Dramatska predigra (Op.25a) (1898)
Croatian Radio Symphony Orchestra,
Mladen Tarbuk

Could you please re-upload it ?...