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MUSIC OF ALL ERAS => Commercial recordings (vintage, new and forthcoming) => Topic started by: Dundonnell on February 07, 2016, 01:04:38 am



Title: New from Lyrita in April: Wordsworth and Milner
Post by: Dundonnell on February 07, 2016, 01:04:38 am
Scheduled for release by Lyrita in April 8th:

William Wordsworth: Symphony No.1 (1944)-BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra/James Loughran, Symphony No.5 (1959-60)-BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra/Stewart Robertson, and Overture "Conflict" (1969)

Anthony Milner: Oratorio “The Water and the Fire” for soprano, tenor, baritone, boys’ choir, chorus and orchestra, op.16 (1961)-Hazel Holt, John Elwes, Stephen Roberts,BBC Northern Symphony Orchestra and Singers/Meredith Davies and “The Song of Akhenaten” for soprano and small orchestra (1954)-Janet Price and the BBC Training Orchestra/Meredith Davies


http://www.amazon.co.uk/William-Wordsworth-Symphony-minor-Op-23/dp/B01AUOFLYA/ref=pd_sim_sbs_15_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=61UAUKDG4eL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR157%2C160_&refRID=0PYEZQ0PDPHGHRFXRRSV (http://www.amazon.co.uk/William-Wordsworth-Symphony-minor-Op-23/dp/B01AUOFLYA/ref=pd_sim_sbs_15_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=61UAUKDG4eL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR157%2C160_&refRID=0PYEZQ0PDPHGHRFXRRSV)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Anthony-Milner-Water-Fire-Akhenaten/dp/B01AUQ0P26/ref=pd_sim_sbs_15_2?ie=UTF8&dpID=51M2Odt5I7L&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR159%2C160_&refRID=0WP1ZRF3MCGM83TJV5GK (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Anthony-Milner-Water-Fire-Akhenaten/dp/B01AUQ0P26/ref=pd_sim_sbs_15_2?ie=UTF8&dpID=51M2Odt5I7L&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR159%2C160_&refRID=0WP1ZRF3MCGM83TJV5GK)


Title: Re: New from Lyrita in April: Wordsworth and Milner
Post by: Albion on February 07, 2016, 09:00:26 am
Excellent news, Colin. Looks like your dreams are coming true ...

 ;)


Title: Re: New from Lyrita in April: Wordsworth and Milner
Post by: Clambert on February 07, 2016, 03:39:39 pm
Excellent indeed; very sad that they never followed up on their orginal recording of two Wordsworth symphonies, which I always found very impressive. Let's hope there are some more to come? (AND some A Butterworth, and yes, even some D Jones!)


Title: Re: New from Lyrita in April: Wordsworth and Milner
Post by: jimfin on February 08, 2016, 08:32:45 am
Great news! I'm not sure I've actually ever heard any Milner, though I am familiar with the name.


Title: Re: New from Lyrita in April: Wordsworth and Milner
Post by: Dundonnell on February 08, 2016, 03:32:00 pm
Great news! I'm not sure I've actually ever heard any Milner, though I am familiar with the name.

A recording of the BBC broadcast of the Milner Oratorio "The Water and the Fire" is in our British Music Archive.........  or was if John has already removed it ;D

The same applies to the Wordsworth Symphonies and the Overture. There is another off-air recording of the Wordsworth 1st in our Archive-the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra under Norman Del Mar. I recall that Latvian thinks this is a better performance than the Loughran. I don't know when the Del Mar performance was broadcast but in any case it seems as though it was the Loughran which Richard Itter recorded and which is therefore to be on the new cd.

At the end of the day, the Itter recordings will be what we have on disc. Folk may criticise the performances and/or the recording quality......and no doubt they will. The BBC Scottish Orchestra in 1968- when the Loughran performance of the 1st was given- was not by any standards a world-class orchestra. However there is absolutely no prospect of an alternative recording being made, certainly in my lifetime, so I am prepared to tolerate deficiencies whilst accepting that criticisms are perfectly valid.


Title: Re: New from Lyrita in April: Wordsworth and Milner
Post by: Latvian on February 08, 2016, 06:31:58 pm
Something is usually better than nothing, but I do lament that Lyrita is issuing Loughran's performance of Wordsworth's 1st Sym. It's not an awful performance, but when compared to the white-hot Del Mar reading, it's disappointingly lethargic. It may well win some new admirers for Wordsworth, but I'm concerned that over the years a couple of fellow collectors to whom I introduced Wordsworth's 1st in the Loughran performance disliked the work and would not even entertain trying the Del Mar version as an alternative.


Title: Re: New from Lyrita in April: Wordsworth and Milner
Post by: Dundonnell on February 08, 2016, 09:08:41 pm
Something is indeed better than nothing. If Itter did not record the Del Mar-and I still do not know the date of that performance-then it cannot be part of the Lyrita deal with the BBC and the Musicians Union. That is something we shall just have to live with, I am afraid.


Title: Re: New from Lyrita in April: Wordsworth and Milner
Post by: northern on February 09, 2016, 01:02:37 pm
Something is indeed better than nothing. If Itter did not record the Del Mar-and I still do not know the date of that performance-then it cannot be part of the Lyrita deal with the BBC and the Musicians Union. That is something we shall just have to live with, I am afraid.

Aren't they the same performance with the 'Del Mar' (actually Loughran) much better balanced giving it more sweep/energy. The timings also seem far too similar over 5-9 minutes to be different. Could be wrong... Probably wrong.

Very pleased that these symphonies are on their way out. No. 5 is, to me, one of the best British symphonies.
Looking at the Itter releases, major choral works seem to be a big feature so far, so works like Alan Bush's Byron Symphony and Daniel Jones' St. Peter could be nearer to the front of the queue than the back!


Title: Re: New from Lyrita in April: Wordsworth and Milner
Post by: Dundonnell on February 09, 2016, 03:16:28 pm
That is an extremely interesting point about the Wordsworth 1st Symphony. The difference in timings between the movements are-

1st movement: Del Mar 8.43  Loughran 8.49 =6 seconds
2nd movement: Del Mar 9.11 Loughran 9.23 =12 seconds
3rd movement: Del Mar 5.34 Loughran 5.35 = 1 second
4th movement: Del Mar 10.35 Loughran 10.28 =7 seconds

In other words, as you suggest, the performances are virtually identical in length-which is very rare. I still cannot trace any record of the Del Mar performance/broadcast. I have written to Paul Conway about this and can attempt to trace further through the archives of the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra.

The Wordsworth 5th symphony is considered by Paul to be probably Wordsworth's finest symphony.

Regarding British choral works-I am sure that Daniel Jones will feature heavily in the Lyrita releases to come; so much of his music was broadcast over the years. The Alan Bush Byron Symphony however may be a problem since the performance was in Leipzig and the broadcast would have come from East German radio-which would presumably hold the copyright.

There are of course many concertos by British composers which may have been recorded by Itter. Another list beckons ;D


Title: Re: New from Lyrita in April: Wordsworth and Milner
Post by: northern on February 09, 2016, 05:33:21 pm
1. I didn't realise the Alan Bush recording was from Leipzig. oops!

2. I see from the other thread on possible Lyrita releases that within days of Latvian sharing a hope for a recording of Wordsworth's First Symphony, it duly appears (if possibly the wrong version)! That's very impressive!

3. Assuming I could be wrong about the Del Mar recording, and it is indeed by him, we know that he was associated with the Scottish S.O. so that bit holds true. I see from Genome that in 1960/1, these artists played around 10 concerts broadcast on the Home Service as 'Sunday Symphony Concert', but only one has any details of the programme. This series could have been the source of the recording, and of course it could have been rebroadcast at any time since with an even more ambiguous description making it impossible to trace. This is one of Genome's weaknesses. I wonder whether the uploader can shed any light on this?


Title: Re: New from Lyrita in April: Wordsworth and Milner
Post by: Clambert on February 09, 2016, 11:03:18 pm
Either way, the Wordsworth is a seriously impressive piece, to the extent that what it really needs is a good modern recording! Alas, it seems unlikely that Dutton will take up WW's cause (I have trawled, once or twice), leaving...er, well, no-one much? Wonder if Martin Anderson (of Toccatta Classics)  knows Wordsworth's work? Or if the BMS might make it one of their occasional forays into orchestral recording? But in either event, it would need a hefty subsidy from somewhere...


Title: Re: New from Lyrita in April: Wordsworth and Milner
Post by: Dundonnell on February 10, 2016, 12:26:24 am
Either way, the Wordsworth is a seriously impressive piece, to the extent that what it really needs is a good modern recording! Alas, it seems unlikely that Dutton will take up WW's cause (I have trawled, once or twice), leaving...er, well, no-one much? Wonder if Martin Anderson (of Toccatta Classics)  knows Wordsworth's work? Or if the BMS might make it one of their occasional forays into orchestral recording? But in either event, it would need a hefty subsidy from somewhere...

All rather improbable, I fear :(


Title: Re: New from Lyrita in April: Wordsworth and Milner
Post by: Dundonnell on February 15, 2016, 09:49:06 am
I sent links to an uploaded copy of the Wordsworth Symphony No.1 in what we have been calling the Del Mar performance to Paul Conway (who writes the cd booklet notes for Lyrita). He has studied the recording and confirms that it is in fact the Loughran performance in a better quality recording. There is a clunk in the slow movement at 7.05 caused by a bow striking a music stand. This clunk appears both in the Loughran performance transferred to the new cd and in the "Del Mar".

I suspect this will be disconcerting news for Latvian but Paul's appraisal combined with the fact that no performance of the Wordsworth 1st by Del Mar can be sourced seems to be conclusive.


Title: Re: New from Lyrita in April: Wordsworth and Milner
Post by: Gauk on February 17, 2016, 08:31:49 am
Good detective work! This thread has encouraged me to revisit the music of WW, whom I had previously rather unjustly dismissed as uninteresting. Perhaps I was confusing him with William Wallace!


Title: Re: New from Lyrita in April: Wordsworth and Milner
Post by: Latvian on February 17, 2016, 09:18:33 pm
I sent links to an uploaded copy of the Wordsworth Symphony No.1 in what we have been calling the Del Mar performance to Paul Conway (who writes the cd booklet notes for Lyrita). He has studied the recording and confirms that it is in fact the Loughran performance in a better quality recording. There is a clunk in the slow movement at 7.05 caused by a bow striking a music stand. This clunk appears both in the Loughran performance transferred to the new cd and in the "Del Mar".

I suspect this will be disconcerting news for Latvian but Paul's appraisal combined with the fact that no performance of the Wordsworth 1st by Del Mar can be sourced seems to be conclusive.

OK, I guess it's time for me to do a side-by-side comparison (something I've never done) of the two recordings I have of the work (Loughran's and, purportedly, Del Mar's), and judge for myself. All I can say at this time is that I have distinctly different recollections of the two recordings, in matters of tempo, orchestral balance, etc. I'll post again here with the outcome once I've done my listening.


Title: Re: New from Lyrita in April: Wordsworth and Milner
Post by: Latvian on February 18, 2016, 04:57:59 pm
So... I listened to the opening minute or so of both performances, side by side, and it certainly appears they are indeed the same performance.

It's amazing what tricks your mind can play on you! I've had the "Del Mar" recording for over 40 years and got to know it quite well before I got the "Loughran" about 15 years ago. I was absolutely convinced the "Loughran" was a different performance, and a couple of friends I provided the recordings to as well were none the wiser. The sound quality is certainly different and I guess that contributed to my mistaken perception.

Thanks for pointing this out to me, and I now unreservedly welcome the Loughran recording from Lyrita, with the added anticipation that it will be in much better sound than either of the two recordings I've lived with to date. Still one of my very favorite symphonies, regardless!


Title: Re: New from Lyrita in April: Wordsworth and Milner
Post by: Dundonnell on February 18, 2016, 09:23:17 pm
So....the mystery appears to have been finally resolved :)

Yes..it should be some consolation to know that the cd recording ought to be better quality.


Title: Re: New from Lyrita in April: Wordsworth and Milner
Post by: Dundonnell on March 05, 2016, 01:39:12 am
Three Lyrita cds were delivered to me today: the Wordsworth symphonies and Milner choral music (release date April 8th) and the Iain Hamilton cd (release date May 13th).

So...if you want to get these cds earlier than advertised by Amazon use Musicweb's direct link with Lyrita :)


(I also received at the same time the three new Dutton cds-Bax/Butterworth/Scott, Armstrong Gibbs and RVW. Six new cds of British music in one day.....Great Stuff!!)


Title: Re: New from Lyrita in April: Wordsworth and Milner
Post by: relm1 on April 18, 2016, 01:09:22 am
I have listened to the new Lyrita Wordsworth a few times now.  I think the Symphony No. 5 is a wonderful and substantial work that I found thoroughly engaging.  The Symphony No. 1 is ok but one of the issues I have with this composer is that the works sound so similar.  I thought the Symphony No. 5 was another movement of the Symphony No. 1.  Compare this with Vaughan Williams who casts a very long shadow on 20th century British symphonists and there is a good reason why.  Great artists really need to traverse tremendous ground and the best do.  But I still consider this a very worthy purchase for No. 5.


Title: Re: New from Lyrita in April: Wordsworth and Milner
Post by: Dundonnell on April 18, 2016, 03:32:24 pm
I largely agree with your assessment.

There is no doubt that RVW was a towering figure of British symphonism and we cannot really claim that other composers were not to various degrees in this thrall. That does not however negate the fact that their works are worthy of much greater exposure and that the neglect they have suffered is unjustified. Wordsworth's 5th is, in my opinion, a masterpiece and I am overjoyed to see it finally available on disc.


Title: Re: New from Lyrita in April: Wordsworth and Milner
Post by: tapiola on April 18, 2016, 03:48:41 pm
Bax was RVW's equal in every way.  Bax was superior as a melodist.


Title: Re: New from Lyrita in April: Wordsworth and Milner
Post by: Paulp on April 18, 2016, 06:55:36 pm
I'd hate to choose between the two of them, so I won't!   ;D


Title: Re: New from Lyrita in April: Wordsworth and Milner
Post by: tapiola on April 18, 2016, 07:49:18 pm
It depends on the day!  :D


Title: Re: New from Lyrita in April: Wordsworth and Milner
Post by: Gauk on April 18, 2016, 11:42:15 pm
Bax was RVW's equal in every way.  Bax was superior as a melodist.

Conventional wisdom (for what it's worth) is that melody was one of the things Bax was weaker at. I can certainly think of more memorable tunes from the pen of RVW.