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MUSIC OF ALL ERAS => General musical discussion => Topic started by: kyjo on December 04, 2012, 08:52:31 pm



Title: Is the music of Lorenzo Perosi (1872-1956) worth investigating?
Post by: kyjo on December 04, 2012, 08:52:31 pm
I've been intrigued by the numerous recordings of Italian composer Lorenzo Perosi's music on the Bongiovanni label, but, being discouraged by high prices and generally negative reviews (some said his music was dreadfully boring), I never purchased any Lorenzi CDs :(. I'm especially interested in the orchestral works of his that have been recorded (the lengthy Piano Concerto, Orchestral Suites 5 and 7, Clarinet Concerto), but I see a large amount of his chamber and choral music has been recorded as well. What to members here think about Perosi's music and if it is worth investing in :)?


Title: Re: Is the music of Lorenzo Perosi (1872-1956) worth investigating?
Post by: t-p on December 04, 2012, 10:03:59 pm
You are asking very sensitive question. Musicians have their agenda and their interest.  To be an amateur offers much more freedom.

I don't have any career and can say what I want, but then who is interested in my opinion beside myself.

As far as I can tell we entered period of re-evaluation and re-discovery. Many new names appear that were forgotten or ignored. There is much new music being recorded.

There is historical shift now. People in the audience have different interest .One can't rely on anyone's opinion. There is no friends for taste and colour as Russian proverb says.

Friends have different tastes though they can agree on some things.

I personally would listen to Lorenzo. I listened to his quartet and a this orchestral suit. http://youtu.be/wAsYTu9ipX0
I would listen to music like that and I know many people would too. But I also know many people that will not listen to anything like that, would say that there is no innovations  there or challenges and it is boring. It is not boring to me.

I learned to rely on my own opinion about things. My students are very independent in their opinion and I can't dictate or even suggest sometimes (I can suggest but very often my suggestions will be ignored. So I came to  conclusion that there is very little boring in music and I can become interested in many things (not all).

If people recorded music, they usually liked it and they didn't find it boring.

I also learned to take critic's opinions with much  salt. I often disagree with what has been written . I noticed that audiences very often disagree and don't follow critics in majority of cases.
This is my opinion on this matter, but other people have theirs.



Title: Re: Is the music of Lorenzo Perosi (1872-1956) worth investigating?
Post by: kyjo on December 04, 2012, 10:27:08 pm
Thanks for your wise words and the YouTube link, t-p :). I seem to recall that most of the negative opinions of Perosi's music were from the "Unsung Composers" forum-I have not been able to find any professional reviews of his music. Like you say, it is your personal opinion, not the opinions of others, that matter most :). Here is interesting quote about Perosi from Puccini: "There's more music in Perosi's head than in mine and Mascagni's put together." If this statement is true (of course, I have no idea how good of a music critic Puccini was ;D), I don't see how Perosi's music could be all that bad!


Title: Re: Is the music of Lorenzo Perosi (1872-1956) worth investigating?
Post by: Toby Esterhase on December 04, 2012, 11:16:59 pm
I've been intrigued by the numerous recordings of Italian composer Lorenzo Perosi's music on the Bongiovanni label, but, being discouraged by high prices and generally negative reviews (some said his music was dreadfully boring), I never purchased any Lorenzi CDs :(. I'm especially interested in the orchestral works of his that have been recorded (the lengthy Piano Concerto, Orchestral Suites 5 and 7, Clarinet Concerto), but I see a large amount of his chamber and choral music has been recorded as well. What to members here think about Perosi's music and if it is worth investing in :)?

In Italy beyond field of Sacred Music he isn't very esteemed like all post-war non-avantgarde composers .


Title: Re: Is the music of Lorenzo Perosi (1872-1956) worth investigating?
Post by: t-p on December 05, 2012, 06:22:05 am
There are composers in England that are not as esteemed in other fields beside sacred music (Howells comes to mind), but it doesn't mean that they don't have value.

It is all in the eye of the beholder.

I consider people who write in other idiom, than avangard now as new avangard.

As grass root person I can tell you that there is much interest in non-avangard composers of the last and this century.

People don't listen much to autorities so to say. There are performers not approved by critics that make their marks on youtube and otherwise.  it is up to performers (and they know their audiences) what to play.
We live in new era of equality and equal treatment. There is little outside of academia that critics can do.



Title: Re: Is the music of Lorenzo Perosi (1872-1956) worth investigating?
Post by: albert on December 05, 2012, 10:21:55 am
I think that the music of Dom Lorenzo Perosi (a Catholic Priest) could stand, or better be worthy of, an occasional hearing of some work.
His output is very (maybe too much) large and no single work in particular has attained something like celebrity.
Apart from his religious works (choral or orchestral/choral) which are the core of his output, he composed 14 string quartets, 2 violin concertos, 1 clarinet concerto, 9 orchestral suites, dedicated to various Italian cities (between them his small natal city , Tortona).
Perosi is (or-better-was) not completely neglected in the concert hall: I heard, in actual concerts, two short oratorios conducted by Gianandrea gavazzeni (who was Perosi's last champion of fame). I heard a  longer third one, in a modest performance (which is the drawback, as far as I know, of all those Bongiovanni records).
Between the few recorded choral works I know though the record, "La Passione di Cristo Secondo San Paolo" appears in a worthy performance from the '50s (Sarx Cd label).
As far as orchestral music  is concerned, I know (through Cd) the Clarinet Concerto and the suites "Torino" and "Milano".
I have found them playful stuff in a sub-brahmsian idiom : in the orchestral suites there is no popular or folk element.
Unfortunately the performances (label "Bongiovanni", for "Torino" also "Nuova Era" ) are generally rather poor.
 


Title: Re: Is the music of Lorenzo Perosi (1872-1956) worth investigating?
Post by: cjvinthechair on December 05, 2012, 06:10:53 pm
Right - amongst all you pros, they don't come more amateur than me, but I'll stick up for what I like - wonder sometimes if there's not too much dissecting of a composer's virtues on these erudite sites.
Perosi's choral music is quite gorgeous - you don't have to pore over it to find something that might be a little sub-Taverner/Pergolesi/Bach etc. - the St. Mark Passion, Entry of Christ into Jerusalem, Ressurection of Christ etc. are the most beautiful works to hear in the background as you cope with cold, harsh winter with a good book & a glass of Chardonnay. Do you not think the composer might even have been happy with that ?

So - yes, investigate - far better and more thoroughly than I can, but, to me at least, a person who's poured heart and soul into producing glorious music deserves more than a trite 'should I bother ?'


Title: Re: Is the music of Lorenzo Perosi (1872-1956) worth investigating?
Post by: kyjo on December 05, 2012, 07:21:28 pm
I am deeply sorry if any of you got the impression that I was asking if I should even bother with Perosi's music :-[! I was simply asking the opinions of members here about Perosi's music :). Please don't get me wrong-I do not in any way doubt the quality of Perosi as a composer!

Re Alberto's post: I am not surprised that many of the performances are rather poor, as is usual with Bongiovanni, unfortunately :(. Maybe the unfavorable opinions I remember were due to the performances, not the music.  Thanks for your helpful and insightful replies, everyone :)!


Title: Re: Is the music of Lorenzo Perosi (1872-1956) worth investigating?
Post by: cjvinthechair on December 05, 2012, 07:37:19 pm
Mr. Kyjo - I've had the St. Mark Passion on since writing my reply; it's not good - it's music to have on as you pass away. Go get it !


Title: Re: Is the music of Lorenzo Perosi (1872-1956) worth investigating?
Post by: kyjo on December 05, 2012, 08:12:01 pm
I'm sorry, Clive, but I don't quite understand your reply. You say that it's not good, but then you tell me to "go get it" ???. Do you mean "go get it" as in "go purchase the CD with the St. Mark Passion on it"? Please excuse my stupidity for not understanding you :-[!


Title: Re: Is the music of Lorenzo Perosi (1872-1956) worth investigating?
Post by: JimL on December 05, 2012, 08:52:42 pm
If I understand him properly I think he's saying that good is an understatement.  It's sublime.


Title: Re: Is the music of Lorenzo Perosi (1872-1956) worth investigating?
Post by: kyjo on December 05, 2012, 08:55:43 pm
Oh, thanks, JimL! English is my language-I shouldn't have to have people translate it for me ::)! I think I'm going to check Perosi out now! I see the St. Mark Passion is on a Nuovo Era CD :).

Does anyone have any views on Perosi's nearly hour-long Piano Concerto, which is on a Bongiovanni CD? One customer review says that it compares with any of the Rachmaninov concerti :o! If so ;D...


Title: Re: Is the music of Lorenzo Perosi (1872-1956) worth investigating?
Post by: Toby Esterhase on December 06, 2012, 01:10:37 am
There are composers in England that are not as esteemed in other fields beside sacred music (Howells comes to mind), but it doesn't mean that they don't have value.

It is all in the eye of the beholder.

I consider people who write in other idiom, than avangard now as new avangard.

As grass root person I can tell you that there is much interest in non-avangard composers of the last and this century.

People don't listen much to autorities so to say. There are performers not approved by critics that make their marks on youtube and otherwise.  it is up to performers (and they know their audiences) what to play.
We live in new era of equality and equal treatment. There is little outside of academia that critics can do.



In Italy who was invised to "Trimurti" Berio,Nono and Maderna was largely forgotten.
On this subject (also IMHO it's highly questionable)

http://www.ilcovile.it/scritti/Quaderni%20del%20Covile%20n.3%20-%20Sulla%20musica%20cosiddetta%20contemporanea.pdf


Title: Re: Is the music of Lorenzo Perosi (1872-1956) worth investigating?
Post by: cjvinthechair on December 06, 2012, 09:01:13 am
As ever, check him out on You Tube first before splashing out your hard-earned pennies. There's ample full length works to make an informed judgment from.
I'm biased - I love the intensity of his work....get a 2nd opinion; your own !


Title: Re: Is the music of Lorenzo Perosi (1872-1956) worth investigating?
Post by: kyjo on December 08, 2012, 05:21:34 am
Just finished listening to Perosi's String Quartet no. 1 in A minor (1928) on YouTube. What a lovely piece-very "fresh"-sounding, if you will :). The slow movement, especially, contains some beautiful harmonies in both the gently syncopated outer section and the fugal inner section :). The Presto finale alternates between 3/4 and 4/4 a couple times, with the 3/4 section being a lilting scherzo and the 4/4 section being of a more intense mood with its relentless ostinato dotted rhythms. The piece ends rather quizzically, with each instrument ruminating on the scherzo theme before the unexpected final A major chord. I am now inspired to hear more of Perosi's music :)!


Title: Re: Is the music of Lorenzo Perosi (1872-1956) worth investigating?
Post by: logeny on December 11, 2012, 10:28:18 pm
I have a number (7) of CDs of Perosi's music.  I have not been disappointed in any one of them.

I think his string quartets are beautifully realized and I also highly recommend the orchestral suites - especially the disc containing Suites 5 & 7.



Title: Re: Is the music of Lorenzo Perosi (1872-1956) worth investigating?
Post by: kyjo on December 12, 2012, 12:45:06 am
Thanks for your enthusiastic recommendations :)! Spurred on by my enjoyment of his String Quartet no. 1, I shall investigate more Perosi! BTW have you heard his massive Piano Concerto?


Title: Re: Is the music of Lorenzo Perosi (1872-1956) worth investigating?
Post by: logeny on December 12, 2012, 01:08:30 am
Yes, I have the Bongiovanni (is there any other?) disc which includes the Perosi Piano Concerto.  It is a large work - running, on this performance, just over 45 minutes.  The piece is highly-charged and certainly no less attractive than any other of Perosi's music.  Although I am partial to the chamber pieces, the PC is right up there!


Title: Re: Is the music of Lorenzo Perosi (1872-1956) worth investigating?
Post by: kyjo on December 12, 2012, 01:14:07 am
Thanks again :)! I'm glad you say it's "highly charged"; I love fiery, energetic late-romantic PCs ;D! The Bongiovanni CD with the PC on it seems to be unavailable on Amazon at present (in the US, at least, I see it is still in print over in the UK), but I see that the disc can be downloaded from allmusic.com :).


Title: Re: Is the music of Lorenzo Perosi (1872-1956) worth investigating?
Post by: albert on December 13, 2012, 10:07:53 am
Reading post 7 I became aware that I own, but neglected, the Bongiovanni Cd containing the orchestral Suites n.5 ("Tortona", Perosi's small birth town) and Suite n.7 ( "Torino", which I have in an alternative Nuova Era recording).
I was prompted to hear again, and more attentively, and found the -rather concise- "Suite n.5" VERY playful and worthy of more than an occasional reading.   


Title: Re: Is the music of Lorenzo Perosi (1872-1956) worth investigating?
Post by: Christo on December 13, 2012, 12:29:08 pm
Reading post 7 I became aware that I own, but neglected, the Bongiovanni Cd containing the orchestral Suites n.5 ("Tortona", Perosi's small birth town) and Suite n.7 ( "Torino", which I have in an alternative Nuova Era recording).
I was prompted to hear again, and more attentively, and found the -rather concise- "Suite n.5" VERY playful and worthy of more than an occasional reading.   

Great to learn that Perosi - I only owned an LP with some of his Masses in the past, otherwise he's probably unplayed in my country - is from Tortona. I was staying there with friends for a weekend, last year, on our way back home from a longer stay in Pistoia. And liked it. :-)