British PM could not name composer of 'Rule Britannia'

[Neil McGowan]

Mr David Cameron, interviewed on American television by David Letterman, couldn't name the composer of 'Rule Britannia' - taking a guess at 'Elgar'.  ???

He also failed to explain what "Magna Carta" meant.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/cameron-stumped-lettermans-history-quiz-004102845.html

[guest2]

So:

Churchill
Eden
Macmillan
Douglas-Home (pron. Hume)
Heath
Major
Cameron

How does each rate on the twit scale of 0 to 10?

[jimfin]

I don't want to get into a political discussion, ranking prime ministers, but I do think Cameron should be ashamed. Even more for guessing Elgar! Any fule kno that Wagner wrote an overture on "Rule Britannia", which would have been pretty impossible unless Elgar had written it at the age of 20. Had Cameron guessed Handel or Boyce, it might have been more understandable!

[JimL]

Well, I'm not entirely sure of that one myself, but just to hurl a guess out there, was it Arne?

[Albion]

was it Arne?

Yes, in the 1740 masque Alfred:

When Britain first, at Heaven's command
Arose from out the azure main;
This was the charter of the land,
And guardian angels sang this strain:
Rule, Britannia! rule the waves:
Britons never will be slaves.

The nations, not so blest as thee,
Must, in their turns, to tyrants fall;
While thou shalt flourish great and free,
The dread and envy of them all.
Rule, Britannia! rule the waves:
Britons never will be slaves.

Still more majestic shalt thou rise,
More dreadful, from each foreign stroke;
As the loud blast that tears the skies,
Serves but to root thy native oak.
Rule, Britannia! rule the waves:
Britons never will be slaves.

Thee haughty tyrants ne'er shall tame:
All their attempts to bend thee down,
Will but arouse thy generous flame;
But work their woe, and thy renown.
Rule, Britannia! rule the waves:
Britons never will be slaves.

To thee belongs the rural reign;
Thy cities shall with commerce shine:
All thine shall be the subject main,
And every shore it circles thine.
Rule, Britannia! rule the waves:
Britons never will be slaves.

The Muses, still with freedom found,
Shall to thy happy coast repair;
Blest Isle! With matchless beauty crown'd,
And manly hearts to guard the fair.
Rule, Britannia! rule the waves:
Britons never will be slaves.

 ::)

[JimL]

I'm having a hard time wrapping those lyrics in that tune.  Maybe there's some melisma that I'm failing to consider.

Aha!  From Wikipedia: 'Thomson had written The Tragedy of Sophonisba (1730), based on the historical figure of Sophonisba - a proud princess of Carthage, a major sea-power of the ancient world, who had committed suicide rather than submit to slavery at the hands of the Romans. This might have some bearing on the song's famous refrain "Britons never will be slaves!". Incidentally, Thomson only wrote the word "never" once, but it has been popularly corrupted to "never, never, never", possibly because it is actually easier to sing.'

More on this here: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/allanmassie/100066655/rule-britannia-the-work-of-a-scot-proud-who-was-proud-of-the-union/

[Neil McGowan]

Arne certainly seems to be an unsung composer, although I can't say if he is an Unsung Composer, of course :)  Wikipedia credits a staggering 96 stage pieces to him - although far from all are full-scale pieces.  Others are incidental music for plays, contributions to jointly-composed entertainments, pasticcio works, works so greatly lost that nothing much can be guessed...  and so forth.

Anyhow who composed pieces titled:

The Hospital for Fools
The Peasant's Triumph or The Death Of The Wild Boar
Miss Lucy In Town
The Nunnery Expedition
Harlequin Mountebank or The Squire Electrified
The Painter's Breakfast
The Guardian Out-Witted
Squire Badger
The Trip to Portsmouth

definitely merits further investigation.

I have produced a semistaged production of Thomas & Sally, which is a cheerful and robust piece, if perhaps lacking subtlety :)

[Dundonnell]

(From London on long weekend break): David Cameron attended the so-called "top British public school"-Eton-and has a 1st class honours degree from Oxford University and he couldn't answer these two straightforward general knowledge questions?? It makes you weep ::)

Any politician who cannot explain "Magna Carta" should be utterly ashamed of themselves >:( And clearly he has never watched the Last Night of the Proms-which is also utterly incredible ::)

Had he guessed Sir Hubert Parry it might have, at least, made more sense since Parry too was an Old Etonian.........but perhaps the PM's superb education doesn't go that far either ;D

He needs a few lessons from his Education Secretary, Michael Gove, seen the other day at Covent Garden for a performance of one of "The Ring" cycle :)

Oh for the days when the British Prime Minister would retire to his study with a good Trollope-Anthony Trollope, that is ;D ;D

[jimfin]

A lot of Arne's operas were lost in the fire at Drury Lane (I believe), including the recitatives and final number from 'Artaxerxes' (a wonderful opera seria, admired by Haydn). I would love to hear 'Thomas and Sally' again: I had an LP of it in the UK, but it never seems to have been released on CD. Has 'Love in a Village' ever been recorded? Currently 'Alfred' and 'Artaxerxes' are the only Arne operas I have on CD.

Arne certainly would not be an approved Unsung Composer, being very much of the 18th Century...

[cilgwyn]

Hm?!! ::) Not sure A*** fits in with our guidelines,jimfin! ;D

[kyjo]

I didn't really know there were any "guidelines" here, cilgwyn ;D! Of course we focus on romantic and accessible modern music here, but I don't see any problem with discussing Arne, even though most here aren't as interested in music from Arne's time.

[cilgwyn]

I should refer you to Article No 3,044 under the Unsung Composers Forum directive,but maybe not!!! ;D Luckily,we can talk about anything we want here,within reason.....including Thomas Arne! :) :) :)
A bit frustrating about the lack of available recordings of Thomas Arne opera's. Thomas and Sally,sounds fun! If anyone has the Lp,maybe they could supply an upload? Gramophone's 1985 review of the 1985 Pye reissue describes it as a "captivating little opera".

[cilgwyn]

The Hyperion cd of Charles Dibdin is another one that remains frustratingly deleted. Of course,you can download,but it's not the same! And,at £13.99,maybe not?!! :o Current sellers on Amazon include those with poor ratings & ones I avoid!

[Toby Esterhase]

Mr David Cameron, interviewed on American television by David Letterman, couldn't name the composer of 'Rule Britannia' - taking a guess at 'Elgar'.  ???

He also failed to explain what "Magna Carta" meant.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/cameron-stumped-lettermans-history-quiz-004102845.html

Italian Prime Minister doesn't know the text of National Anthem  (see at the end of Soccer European Championship)
 :-X

[guest54]

. . .
Harlequin Mountebank or The Squire Electrified
. . .

It is intriguing to see such an early use of the word "electrified."

In the O.E.D. its scientific or literal meaning is given as "charge a body with electricity, or pass the electric current through it; to subject (a person) to an electric shock or current." The first citation of the word in this sense dates from 1745.

And its figurative meaning there given is "startle, rouse, excite, as though with the shock of electricity." The first citation in this sense is from 1752: "Chesterfield Lett. 285 III. 308 You will not be so agreeably electrified . . . as you were at Manheim."

Arne's pantomime The Harlequin Mountebank or The Squire Electrified dates from 1750, two years before that, and it is not really clear whether the literal or the figurative meaning is intended, although the latter is more probable. A study of the text would doubtless reveal more. But Grove's advises "music lost." It was first performed on the same day and at the same place as Arne's "entertainment" The Sacrifice of Iphigenia, which is not described as "lost," so it is just possible that the materials of the two items were confused together at some point.

The word "electric" itself seems to have been first used in English around 1646: "Sir T. Browne Pseud. Ep. ii. iv. 78 By Electrick bodies, I conceive . . . such as conveniently placed unto their objects attract all bodies palpable."