Favourite orchestral transcriptions

[Albion]

I know from bitter personal experience just how difficult it is to turn a keyboard score into something that works for a large orchestra, sometimes a lot harder than writing an original piece. You have to get into the spirit of the original composer without losing your own personal touch in craven anonymity, under-selling or over-selling the main event. Here are some of my favourites and the recordings of them that I would recommend:

Bach: Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor, orchestrated by Respighi (1930) - Slatkin/ Chandos
Bach: Fantasia and Fugue in C minor, orchestrated by Elgar (1922) - Slatkin/ Chandos
Brahms: Variations and Fugue on a Theme by Handel, orchestrated by Edmund Rubbra (1938) - Ashkenazy/ Decca
Brian: The Vision of Cleopatra, orchestrated by John Pickard (2014) - Brabbins/ Dutton
Debussy: Preludes, orchestrated by Colin Matthews (completed for Mark Elder and the Halle Orchestra 2007) - Elder/ Halle
Holst: The Dream-City, twelve songs by Humbert Wolfe, orchestrated by Colin Matthews (1983) - Hickox/ Hyperion
Mussorgsky: Pictures at an Exhibition, orchestrated by Henry Wood (1915) - Braithwaite/ Lyrita, Ravel (1922) - many,  and Stokowski (1939) - Knussen/ DG
Stanford: Merlin and the Gleam, orchestrated by Jeremy Dibble (I heard this at a concert by the Broadheath Singers back, I think, in 1999)
Sullivan: Victoria and Merrie England, orchestrated by Roderick Spencer (1993) - Penny/ Marco Polo, now Naxos
Vaughan Williams: Songs of Travel, numbers 2, 4-7 and 9 orchestrated by Roy Douglas - Rattle/ EMI

 8)

So it can be done! Besides transcribing original keyboard pieces, even if an orchestral work was left unorchestrated by the composer or the original orchestral score has been lost or destroyed, as long as there's a keyboard reduction, there's always hope....

 ;D

Any other favourites, or hopes for orchestral transformation not yet undertaken (my personal list would be too long to post, lol)?

 ;)

[guest822]

An intriguing topic, if I may say so. Although the purist in me feels some discomfort at the notion of an arranger tinkering with another composer's work, there's no doubt that sometimes the results justify the risk. I think you approach the crux of the matter when you say, "You have to get into the spirit of the original composer without losing your own personal touch in craven anonymity..." When the arranger is as great a master as the original composer, you are on a pretty safe bet that his or her 'personal touch' will be evident all right; providing that they are in sympathy with the composer's sound-world, all should be well. And I think it's unlikely that a great arranger would trouble to do an orchestration of a work with which they weren't in sympathy.

Of those you mention by far and away my favourite is Elgar's orchestration of Bach's Fantasia and Fugue in C minor. I first heard it in Elgar's own recording made in April 1926 (if I recall correctly, EMI issued a box of four or five LPs of all Elgar's own recordings in the early 1970s). While I was impressed, I only realised how outrageous it was when I heard Boult's recording with the LPO in 1974, the glorious stereo revealing all those wonderfully anachronistic harp glissandi, trumpet trills and tambourine shakes. It really did make me laugh out loud. However, the point is that this is as much Elgar as it is Bach and for that reason it works triumphantly.

This is not to say, however, that less 'characterful' orchestrations can't work too. For example, I bet most of us will know Grieg's op 35 Norwegian Dances not in the composer's original piano duet form but in the entirely sympathetic and appropriate orchestrations by Hans Sitt who, while not a genius in his own right like Elgar, was a sensitive craftsman who  produced a wholly satisfactory arrangement that is far from being "as much Sitt as it is Grieg". I would place André Caplet's and Henri Büsser's orchestrations of Debussy in the same category. (I'm not convinced about Colin Matthews, however!)

I think there are two types of effective orchestrations, then: those done by geniuses who can't help but put a lot of themselves into the transcription: one thinks of the Mussorgky/Ravel Pictures or Berlioz's orchestration of Weber's Aufforderung zum Tanze. Then there are those done by the Hans Sitts and Roy Douglases of this world: sensitive craftsmen who faithfully reinterpret the music convincingly in the spirit of the composer.

I'd have to have a long, hard think about transcriptions I wish someone would make. :-\

 

[jimfin]

One orchestrated-because-the-composer-didn't: Stanford Violin Concerto no 2 (another Jeremy Dibble). One of my favourite Stanford works, and that is saying something.

One just for fun: Mackerras's Pineapple Poll from Sullivan. Just genius.

One more Dibble: extracts from Parry's (likely dreadful had it been completed) opera "Guenever", especially "King Arthur's Farewell to Guenever"

[Albion]

I think there are two types of effective orchestrations, then: those done by geniuses who can't help but put a lot of themselves into the transcription: one thinks of the Mussorgky/Ravel Pictures or Berlioz's orchestration of Weber's Aufforderung zum Tanze. Then there are those done by the Hans Sitts and Roy Douglases of this world: sensitive craftsmen who faithfully reinterpret the music convincingly in the spirit of the composer.

Spot on Lionel, I agree that the Bach-Elgar, Weber-Berlioz and Mussorgsky-Ravel combos are prime examples of one great mind interacting with another to produce a double-whammy: if Richard Strauss had taken up Elgar's suggestion in 1921 that the German composer undertake the orchestration of the Fantasia it would have been a musical hat-trick! But there are lots of reasons why transcriptions were, are being, can be and need to be made.

To turn it on its head, since the nineteenth-century (and earlier) orchestral scores have been routinely transcribed and published for keyboard or a smaller instrumental ensemble in order to bring them to a wider audience in an age when the only option to hear the original work would be in live performance, involving travel and expense (no radio, recording capacity, internet, etc. which I think we all take far too much for granted).

 ::)

Every vocal score of an opera, choral work or song-cycle that was originally conceived in orchestral garb by the composer (some weren't) is, of course, a transcription to facilitate rehearsal and again to disseminate the music to the public for their personal consumption and collection in a manageable format that could be played-through at home and, if wished, studied more closely: very few orchestral scores were published in Britain as they were expensive to produce, expensive to purchase, heavy, bulky and unlikely to fit neatly on people's book-shelves. So many a work languished in manuscript, prey to the depredations of time and wanton human behaviour...

 :(

Sometimes keyboard transcriptions give very little idea of the orchestral texture they are drawn from because, of necessity, the performer only has two hands and the score needs to be playable, so it has to be simplified. This is why so many orchestral works were also published as arrangements for piano duet - you could then include much more detail, and not just octave doubling. Other transcriptions go the other way and are virtually unplayable even by a virtuoso: I pity the répétiteur faced with rehearsals for Schoenberg's Gurrelieder, Schreker's Die Gezeichneten, Korngold's Das Wunder der Heliane, Berg's Wozzeck or Birtwistle's Gawain...

 :o

When an orchestral score has been lost (as with Brian's The Vision of Cleopatra) the only way that it can be heard again is in somebody else's orchestration. John Pickard, I think, did a fabulous job. In light of what has been lost we are incredibly lucky that the music publishers churned out as much as they did.

 ;)

One just for fun: Mackerras's Pineapple Poll from Sullivan. Just genius.

Heartily concur with that, Jamie...

 :)

[guest822]

One just for fun: Mackerras's Pineapple Poll from Sullivan. Just genius.

Heartily concur with that, Jamie...

 :)

Oh yes, so do I. Mackerras was so well-acquainted with Sullivan's wonderful orchestral technique that he could judge to perfection how to zhoosh it up just enough but no so much as to risk vulgarity.

[Albion]

Sullivan's wonderful orchestral technique

Sullivan was possibly (no, make that certainly) the greatest British orchestrator before Elgar. The Martyr of Antioch, Iolanthe, Princess Ida, The Golden Legend, The Yeomen of the Guard, Ivanhoe, The Grand Duke and The Beauty Stone are miracles of instrumentation...

 ;D

[guest822]

Sullivan's wonderful orchestral technique

Sullivan was possibly (no, make that certainly) the greatest British orchestrator before Elgar. The Martyr of Antioch, Iolanthe, Princess Ida, The Golden Legend, The Yeomen of the Guard, Ivanhoe, The Grand Duke and The Beauty Stone are miracles of instrumentation...

 ;D

I agree entirely, John. The variety of textures and colours he was able to conjure up, even when restricted to a theatre orchestra, is astounding. The fact that he was intimately acquainted with the capabilities of every instrument of the orchestra helped, of course, but more importantly, his aural imagination in this regard was truly remarkable. As Gervase Hughes writes in his book 'The Music of Arthur Sullivan', apropos Sullivan's orchestration, "...in this vitally important sector of the composer's art he deserves to rank as a master". Quite so.

[JP]

To turn it on its head, since the nineteenth-century (and earlier) orchestral scores have been routinely transcribed and published for keyboard or a smaller instrumental ensemble in order to bring them to a wider audience in an age when the only option to hear the original work would be in live performance, involving travel and expense (no radio, recording capacity, internet, etc. which I think we all take far too much for granted).

 ::)

An interesting thread. Thanks again for pointing me in its direction, Lionel.

I actually don't think I have that many transcriptions in my collection, certainly not any rarities - Grieg's Norwegian Dances, Mottl's orchestration of Chabrier, the usual concert hall fare.

I am grateful to have both Newbould's and Weingartner's orchestrations of Schubert's Seventh Symphony though, an attractive transitional work, the awareness of which makes the leap from the early symphonies to the "larger scale" thinking in Eight and Nine a bit less startling perhaps!

Thinking of the reductions that were common in the pre-recording age, as mentioned by Albion, I really like Ferdinand Ries' piano quartet version of the Eroica.

[guest822]

I am grateful to have both Newbould's and Weingartner's orchestrations of Schubert's Seventh Symphony though, an attractive transitional work, the awareness of which makes the leap from the early symphonies to the "larger scale" thinking in Eight and Nine a bit less startling perhaps!

Thinking of the reductions that were common in the pre-recording age, as mentioned by Albion, I really like Ferdinand Ries' piano quartet version of the Eroica.

I have both Newbould's and Weingartner's orchestrations of Schubert's Seventh Symphony too and I agree with your analysis of its place in Schubert's canon. I also find Newbould's 'completion' of the Tenth Symphony pretty convincing.

I'm interested in what you write about Ferdinand Ries' piano quartet version of the Eroica of which I was unaware, although I see that it's at IMSLP. I have this:



which includes an arrangement of the Eroica by Ries for small orchestra. I wonder whether Beethoven got a cut from Ries on the back all these arrangements!

Seriously though, it's a good example of the point Albion made above that "orchestral scores have been routinely transcribed and published for keyboard or a smaller instrumental ensemble in order to bring them to a wider audience in an age when the only option to hear the original work would be in live performance..." Ries clearly spotted a gap in the market and determined to fill it!

[JP]

I have both Newbould's and Weingartner's orchestrations of Schubert's Seventh Symphony too and I agree with your analysis of its place in Schubert's canon. I also find Newbould's 'completion' of the Tenth Symphony pretty convincing.

Absolutely - I should have mentioned that in my post too. How sad it would be if all that lovely, quintessentially Schubertian music had been left un-realised and unheard in manuscript/sketch form. I'm very fond of the Hyperion recording under Mackerras and, even though it's not a disc I play over and over again, the wonderful music in that symphony really has managed to lodge itself in my memory.

I hadn't heard of that Beethoven disc before now or the ensemble performing. I see they've recorded a couple of discs by Rosetti too, which is interesting - I've enjoyed much the music of his that I own.

[guest822]

I hadn't heard of that Beethoven disc before now or the ensemble performing. I see they've recorded a couple of discs by Rosetti too, which is interesting - I've enjoyed much the music of his that I own.

Rosetti is a new name to me. (Scuttles off to investigate...)

 :)

[JP]

Actually, until yesterday, I had completely forgotten a fairly significant transcription in my collection - Kenneth Woods' orchestration of the Brahms Piano Quartet in A major.

I'm no musical scholar or Brahms expert but I do think this an impressive and convincing-sounding work. I'm currently reading Jan Swafford's biography of the composer, which prompted me to play the quartet on Wednesday which, in turn, reminded me that I had the orchestral version not far from it on the shelf.

[relm1]

I've done lots of orchestral transcriptions (orchestrations).  Here is my version of Rachmaninoff's Prelude in B minor, Op. 32, No. 10 for orchestra. 
https://clyp.it/1lkngwc0

I also did Bach's Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor, Handel's Messiah (Worthy is the Lamb and Amen for romantic orchestra with organ), etc.  Bach really lends himself to arrangements because there are no dynamics or phrases indicated but they are implied so we "hear" phrases, dynamics, and all the moving lines and instruments.

[Corentin Boissier]

I've also done more than twenty orchestrations of piano works by various composers (mainly from the first half of the XXth century) such as Debussy, Roussel, Satie, Bartok, Casella, Szymanowski, Prokofiev, Stravinsky, Frank Bridge... Some of them have been live performed and recorded, and can be listened to on my YouTube channel:

[guest822]

I've also done more than twenty orchestrations of piano works by various composers (mainly from the first half of the XXth century) such as Debussy, Roussel, Satie, Bartok, Casella, Szymanowski, Prokofiev, Stravinsky, Frank Bridge... Some of them have been live performed and recorded, and can be listened to on my YouTube channel:

Bravo! Très bien!