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I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaack!


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Author Topic: I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaack!  (Read 260 times)
JimL
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« on: April 30, 2019, 05:35:59 pm »

Hello everyone!

I, too, have been banned from UCF, finally. I suppose my time had come, as I have been engaging in activities on YouTube that they found unacceptable (but which, I found, seem perfectly acceptable on YouTube itself). When one of the moderators (who will remain unnamed, but whose initials are AH) outed my old YT channel, which had remained unused until recently, when I volunteered a post to the Hans Gál Society, and found that I could continue posting materials there with impunity, as long as I didn't monetize my account or posts (which I didn't anyway), the administrator issued an ultimatum to basically shut down my channel. I offered to delete those posts that had some kind of copyright claim (of which many didn't, and all of which that did set the aforementioned condition) but the offer was rejected with summary ejection, no further discussion. So, I'm back here. I hope that you don't set any conditions here like they do over there, or I'm going over to GMG (where I also re-introduced myself).
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BrianA
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« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2019, 06:34:50 pm »

Blimey! How did I manage to miss all that?  I was even following the Fritz Brun copyright thread although apparently not as closely as I thought...
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JimL
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« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2019, 07:51:27 pm »

It was in an ongoing discussion with Adriano about his Brilliant Classics Brun symphonies and concertos. Unless all of my posts have also been deleted, you should be able to find it towards the end of that thread. No doubt Mark has waxed turgidly eloquent about the fate that awaits all who run afoul of his statutes. I don't think he understands it doesn't operate that way anymore. I'm under the impression, from what I saw about the YT rules regarding copyright claims, that if I use copyrighted materials that have been monetized by the holders, the copyright holders can either A) block it outright, B) lay exclusive claim to any monetary proceeds resulting from ads run on my posts, or C) share some of those proceeds with me (an option which I haven't pursued, but may investigate at some future date). In any event, if the copyright holders pursue option B (which they do with many of my videos), it seems to me that they do get income from my posts (which I always have expressly approved in the headers of my presentations without fail). It would seem to me that if the label, or distributor, is the copyright holder, they have an agreement with YT that they will share a percentage of the ad proceeds with them. Whatever goes back to the copyright holder is disbursed as they see fit. I'm pretty sure that if Adriano has a gripe about the money, it's with them, not me, but hey, if UCF wants to cut off their nose to spite their face, that's no longer any business of mine. And I'm not responsible for the posts of his Fritz Brun symphonies by my YT colleagues, in any event. I've even warned one or two that I had to delete works that they subsequently posted because I got a warning from parties who had recently gained the rights, and that they might get a strike if they didn't take it down.
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the Administration
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« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2019, 08:42:03 pm »

Since you appear not to have been active on this Forum for some time you will probably not be aware that we had a lengthy "episode" last Autumn. This was initiated by the former Administrator of this site re-posting You Tube videos of commercially available cds.

I have no great burning desire to rehash the arguments used at that time. Members were sickened by the ugly "debate" between the gentleman in question and those who he claimed had "usurped" his position that ensued.

The former Administrator is no longer-as far as we can tell-a member of this site.

The agreed consensus of opinion amongst members who contributed at that time, either publicly or through private messages, was:

What goes on at You Tube is the business of You Tube and those who use it either to post or simply to listen. We are not naive. We all know that people download music from You Tube. I have done so.

The issue is the 'morality' of downloading, for free, music issued by record companies and the financial impact of that practice on the future financial viability, particularly of the small labels which issue comparatively obscure music.

Different people may well have a variety of views on the subject and may indeed have their own differing, private practices. We do not exclude from our membership those who choose to use You Tube in any way which suits them. Nor do we issue ultimata as a regular matter of course!

What we DID agree on was our policy on THIS site. The re-posting of You Tube videos of music from any other sources is absolutely fine. What is not acceptable is the reposting of videos of commercially available cds.
Those who wish to listen to these can do so on You Tube and decide whatever actions to take or not take. That is none of our business. What IS our business is not reposting on here.

You may disagree with this policy-and indeed you are fully entitled to disagree! But it is our policy-as agreed by the membership and NOT one imposed by me or my fellow administrators.

This Forum is NOT my personal property. My role is to try to ensure that the agreed forum "rules" are adhered to-no more, no less.

I hope this explains the position. I very much hope too that you will not "go away" but will remain and contribute as you did a number of years ago to discussions here.
Best Wishes,
Dundonnell.
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JimL
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« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2019, 09:07:07 pm »

If by "posting" you mean uploading into the database here for download, I fully agree. I would post links to YT, if that is acceptable. The links are complete versions of commercially available works that are already on YT in fragmentary form. If not, then I simply will participate in discussions of whatever I find here.
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« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2019, 09:44:41 pm »

If by "posting" you mean uploading into the database here for download, I fully agree. I would post links to YT, if that is acceptable. The links are complete versions of commercially available works that are already on YT in fragmentary form. If not, then I simply will participate in discussions of whatever I find here.

I am afraid that the posted link from You Tube is the very thing to which members took exception if that link was to a commercially available cd. The reason for this was that what was being done was to explicitly "advertise" the opportunity to obtain the music at no personal cost.

As I said, we are not naive or stupid. We all know what is going on in the real world. Some of us, and that means the overwhelming majority of those who expressed a view on here last year, are unhappy about the situation.

However, it takes seconds to do a Search on You Tube and find whatever one wishes. If that is what people choose to do then that is entirely up to them. It is a matter of personal choice and should remain so.

If members decide to ditch our current policy then the situation will change Smiley
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dhibbard
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« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2019, 03:32:20 am »

welcome back  !!!!
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dhibbard
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« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2019, 06:11:55 am »

yes it is a somewhat contentious position... I see both sides of the argument,......   there have been many CDs in my collection that I now own, whereby I listened to most of the CD on youtube and decided I wanted to own that for my drive in to work or drive home from work in my car.   I still find it interesting that Naxos uploads the whole CD onto youtube, whereby one can listen for free... I don't know if that contributed to my 2000+ Naxos collection.... maybe it worked??!?    Dave
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« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2019, 11:32:12 am »

I can understand the argument too, Dave. The point though is that you do have these cds in your collection and Naxos is a rich company issuing lots and lots of cds. The fear is that the small companies, selling only a couple of thousand copies of a cd if they are lucky, will disappear if folk upload to YT and potential purchasers download for free.
Learning that Toccata was about to issue some Sutermeister I looked to see whether there was more on disc. I could have downloaded the Piano Concerto No.2 but I ordered the Swiss cd instead because I happen to think that is the better thing to do.
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dhibbard
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« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2019, 02:45:46 pm »

I can understand the argument too, Dave. The point though is that you do have these cds in your collection and Naxos is a rich company issuing lots and lots of cds. The fear is that the small companies, selling only a couple of thousand copies of a cd if they are lucky, will disappear if folk upload to YT and potential purchasers download for free.
Learning that Toccata was about to issue some Sutermeister I looked to see whether there was more on disc. I could have downloaded the Piano Concerto No.2 but I ordered the Swiss cd instead because I happen to think that is the better thing to do.


Yes... funny I just ordered the same CD also.. looking forward to hearing it!
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JimL
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« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2019, 03:45:49 pm »

The smaller companies can do like Hyperion and BIS do, and block their CDs worldwide, issuing only teaser ads on YT. The bigger companies usually only release their CDs in separate movements, but rarely the entire works. Sometimes they put up the entire CD without separating the works. These are the ones that have instructed YT to notify anyone who makes a video of a single work (say a 3-movement concerto) that there are 3 copyright claims on the source material, and inform the uploader that as long as it isn't monetized by anyone other than the copyright holder, it may remain, with ads.
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Dundonnell
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« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2019, 04:04:03 pm »

I can understand the argument too, Dave. The point though is that you do have these cds in your collection and Naxos is a rich company issuing lots and lots of cds. The fear is that the small companies, selling only a couple of thousand copies of a cd if they are lucky, will disappear if folk upload to YT and potential purchasers download for free.
Learning that Toccata was about to issue some Sutermeister I looked to see whether there was more on disc. I could have downloaded the Piano Concerto No.2 but I ordered the Swiss cd instead because I happen to think that is the better thing to do.


Yes... funny I just ordered the same CD also.. looking forward to hearing it!

It is a delightful cd of really attractive music!
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