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Dutton?


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Grandenorm
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« Reply #45 on: April 16, 2018, 11:03:20 pm »

I see where you are coming from but the observation is not quite accurate in this case. I think it is much more to do with some people getting a "reward" for having done nothing. The absence, if you like, of a level playing field. In effect, why should someone be rewarded for having an SACD player? St Matthew records Christ as saying: "For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not, even that which he hath shall be taken away." But I've never really understood what our Lord meant. Sounds jolly unfair to me.  Undecided
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Dundonnell
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« Reply #46 on: April 16, 2018, 11:56:10 pm »

I have emailed Lewis Foreman as promised.
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calyptorhynchus
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« Reply #47 on: April 17, 2018, 01:41:18 am »

I see where you are coming from but the observation is not quite accurate in this case. I think it is much more to do with some people getting a "reward" for having done nothing. The absence, if you like, of a level playing field. In effect, why should someone be rewarded for having an SACD player? St Matthew records Christ as saying: "For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not, even that which he hath shall be taken away." But I've never really understood what our Lord meant. Sounds jolly unfair to me.  Undecided
The gospel context has Jesus saying that those who have faith will be rewarded and those that have not will not be rewarded. But it was quoted literally with satiric intent to describe the thatcher onwards neo-liberal project of dividing society into the virtuous rich and the non-virtuous poor (which, as we have seen has not gone well).
I don't know whether an SACD player is 'worth it' in terms of sound quality, but I listen to all my music as MP3s through headphones on an iPod. I'd sooner have several hundred more CDs/downloads than spend a lot on a new CD player.
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ahinton
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« Reply #48 on: April 17, 2018, 06:10:46 am »

St Matthew records Christ as saying: "For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not, even that which he hath shall be taken away." But I've never really understood what our Lord meant. Sounds jolly unfair to me.
One might perhaps be forgiven for concluding from this strange statement that St. Matthew was either the CEO of the UK financial services regulator or its Chancellor of the Exchequer or its head of Department of Work and Pensions. In all seriousness, though, as the phrase sounds as though it means the very opposite of what it ought to mean, either something vital has been lost in translation of St. Matthew was the head of the aforementioned regulator's Register team. If Bach had ever pondered this, it's a wonder that He nevertheless went ahead and wrote the St. Matthew Passion (although, like tens of millions of other people, I'm very glad indeed that he did!)...

But I digress...
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M. Yaskovsky
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« Reply #49 on: April 17, 2018, 08:23:08 am »

The statement of mr. Oliver from Dutton, a standard CD only runs for 79 minutes 59 seconds is absolutely untrue. Technically a red book cd can handle more. A recent BIS recording of Mahler's 6 runs for 86 minutes and 16 seconds. http://bis.se/conductors/vanska-osmo/mahler-symphony-no6 Although this is a SACD the stereo CD layer can be played on standard CD players and handles the 86 minutes fine. (If one owns a cd player from around 1985, one of the first models, we can assume those players will have some trouble playing over 80 minutes....) I don't know the total playing time of the Boyle SACD without the extra SACD track...... Probably it could have been included without any problems..................
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Dundonnell
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« Reply #50 on: April 17, 2018, 03:18:28 pm »

Very briefly and with my moderator's hat on, and in the spirit of the "light touch", can I respectfully point out to members that further extended discussion of the interpretation of passages from the Bible and modern economic/financial parallels could lead us into stormy waters Grin

In direct response however....the Ina Boyle cd without the bonus track contains 75 minutes of music. The bonus track is timed at 8.50 minutes.
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Grandenorm
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« Reply #51 on: April 17, 2018, 06:34:07 pm »

Room for the extra track then - just.
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M. Yaskovsky
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« Reply #52 on: April 17, 2018, 07:12:22 pm »

So the extra track is within the limits of 86 minutes..........
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patmos.beje
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« Reply #53 on: April 20, 2018, 09:58:20 am »


As for the Stanford concertos....? Well they certainly will not scare the horses They are works of Stanford's youth, very much in the Mendelssohn and Schumann tradition. Evidently the composer had no great interest in attempting to dust them off during his lifetime. He went on to write far better and more interesting music. Do they deserve a cd recording? Well obviously some people think so.....but I can think of more deserving causes! Not a cd I am likely to play often but my sense of "duty" to the cause of British music etc etc.

I am glad I did not buy the Stanford CD.  I appreciate that many love Stanford's music.  Schumann I love.  Stanford in Schumann mode is not for me.

So far as the annoyance of many at the SACD Bonus Track on the Ina Boyle CD not being accessible for most, I am just glad that Dutton - albeit with some crowdfunding support - issued such a fine CD by a relatively obscure composer.  Having worked, until very early retirement, for 28 years in commercial private legal practice, and spent time listening to owners of businesses and company finance directors complaining of their struggles to cope in financially challenging times, I would not feel confident in criticising companies, like Dutton, who issue such an enterprising release like the Ina Boyle CD (packed with a lot of music) which, I presume, may be may be loss making or of limited profitability, on a point that, for me, is a relatively minor disappointment.

 
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calyptorhynchus
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« Reply #54 on: April 20, 2018, 10:56:16 pm »



... their struggles to cope in financially challenging times....

 

Rule number 1 of business, don't annoy your customers.
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Grandenorm
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« Reply #55 on: April 21, 2018, 08:50:41 am »

Exactly so, calyptorhynchus. Besides, much of the cost of producing the Ina Boyle CD was found by crowdfunding. Furthermore, when I wrote to Dutton complaining, more in sorrow than anger, I received the rather arrogant, unsympathetic response quoted earlier from someone who clearly had had no training in customer service. That merely adds insult to injury.
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Dundonnell
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« Reply #56 on: April 21, 2018, 02:04:24 pm »

I have not, to date, had any response to my email to Lewis Foreman.

The point I made to him was that those who bought the Ina Boyle disc will react in different ways and to different degrees to the "inclusion" of a piece of music to which most will be unable to listen. Dutton's decision to "include", advertise and discuss this piece may or may not "make sense" and there will be different opinions about that. But to annoy any part of what must inevitably be a relatively small customer base and to compound that by self-evidently failing to acknowledge that consequence of the decision is not good commercial practice. It damages the reputation of the company.

Will it make any difference in the long run? Probably not. I doubt that any who have been upset by all this will not purchase future releases in consequence. But any loss of goodwill towards a small company can be corrosive and any commercial organization should seek to avoid or at least ameliorate such.
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Grandenorm
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« Reply #57 on: April 21, 2018, 04:49:17 pm »

Wise words, Dundonnell - and thank you for writing so cogently to Lewis Foreman. As you say, I shall not stop buying Dutton CDs if they continue to record interesting and unusual repertoire and shall continue to be grateful to them for doing so. But, my goodness, they need a lesson in public relations!
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jimfin
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« Reply #58 on: April 27, 2018, 09:20:14 am »

Slightly to change the subject, I do wish the Elgar disc had included the Pas Redouble march, which was originally part of the Suite in D and removed when that suite became "Three Characteristic Pieces". I have never heard this march, which I think was probably Elgar's earliest attempt in a genre that he became so famous for. Does anyone know if it has ever been heard, or even whether it survives?
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Dimana
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« Reply #59 on: April 27, 2018, 02:58:29 pm »

The Complete Elgar Edition volume of the smaller orchestral works lists the Pas Redouble march in its contents under "sketches and fragments" but without knowing how much of it there is printed there, impossible to say whether a performable version could be made.  I tend to think someone might have done it by now if it was possible.
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