Sibelius No. 8???

[Jolly Roger]

3 Sketches From Sibelius "Lost" 8th Symphony- World Premiere

[relm1]

3 Sketches From Sibelius "Lost" 8th Symphony- World Premiere

Tantalizing.  Hopefully more will surface in time.

[guest377]

some info from Wiki: 

Back in Ainola, Sibelius busied himself by making new arrangements of old songs. However, his mind returned frequently to the now apparently moribund symphony. In February 1943 he told his secretary that he hoped to complete a "great work" before he died, but blamed the war for his inability to make progress: "I cannot sleep at nights when I think about it."[28] In June he discussed the symphony with his future son-in-law Jussi Jalas and provided another reason for its non-completion: "For each of my symphonies I have developed a special technique. It can't be something superficial, it has to be something that has been lived though. In my new work I am struggling with precisely these issues." Sibelius also told Jalas that all rough sketches and drafts were to be burned after his death; he did not want anyone labelling these rejected scraps as "Sibelius letzten [sic] Gedanken" (Sibelius's last thoughts).[28]

At some time in the mid-1940s, probably in 1945, Sibelius and Aino together burned a large number of the composer's manuscripts on the stove in the dining room at Ainola. There is no record of what was burned; while most commentators assume that the Eighth Symphony was among the works destroyed, Kilpeläinen observes that there had been at least two manuscripts of the work—the original and Voigt's copy—as well as sketches and fragments of earlier versions. It is possible, says Kilpeläinen, that Sibelius may not have burned them all.[16] Aino, who found the process very painful, recalled later that the burning appeared to ease Sibelius's mind: "After this, my husband appeared calmer and his attitude was more optimistic. It was a happy time".[29] The most optimistic interpretation of his action, according to The Philadelphia Inquirer's music critic David Patrick Stearns, is that he got rid of old drafts of the symphony to clear his mind for a fresh start.[22] In 1947, after visiting Ainola, the conductor Nils-Eric Fougstedt claimed to have seen a copy of the Eighth on the shelf, with separate choral parts. The musicologist Erkki Salmenhaara posits the idea of two burnings: that of 1945 which destroyed early material, and another after Sibelius finally recognised that he could never complete the work to his satisfaction.[16]

Although Sibelius informed his secretary that the symphony had been burned, the matter remained a secret confined to the composer's private circle. During the remaining years of his life, Sibelius from time to time hinted that the Eighth Symphony project was still alive. In August 1945 he wrote to Basil Cameron: "I have finished my eighth symphony several times, but I am still not satisfied with it. I will be delighted to hand it over to you when the time comes."[16] In fact, after the burning he had altogether abandoned creative composing; in 1951, when the Royal Philharmonic Society requested a work to mark the 1951 Festival of Britain, Sibelius declined.[30] As late as 1953 he told his secretary, Santeri Levas, that he was working on the symphony "in his mind"; only in 1954 did he admit, in a letter to the widow of his friend Adolf Paul, that it would never be completed.[31] Sibelius died on 20 September 1957; the next day his daughter Eva Paloheimo announced publicly that the Eighth Symphony did not exist. The burning of the manuscript became generally known later, when Aino revealed the fact to the composer's biographer Erik W. Tawaststjerna.[20]

"The silence of Sibelius is the din of his beatification. The Finnish state that raised Sibelius to the level of a national hero also played a large part in crippling his creativity. The nation not only found its hero, it succeeded in silencing him. Silence was, in fact, the only logical response Sibelius could make to his deification by the Finnish state."
Mark McKenna, "Who Stopped the Music?" (November 2012)[18]

Critics and commentators have pondered the reasons why Sibelius finally abandoned the symphony. Throughout his life he was prone to depression[32] and often suffered crises of self-confidence. Alex Ross, in The New Yorker, quotes an entry from the composer's 1927 diary, when the Eighth Symphony was allegedly under way: "Isolation and loneliness are driving me to despair ... Am abused, alone, and all my real friends are dead. My prestige here at present is rock-bottom. Impossible to work. If only there were a way out."[33] Writers have pointed to the hand tremor that made writing difficult and to the alcoholism that afflicted him at numerous stages of his life.[22] Others have argued that Sibelius's exalted status as a national hero effectively silenced him; he became afraid that any further major work would not live up to the expectations of the adoring nation.[18] Andrew Barnett, another of the composer's many biographers, points to Sibelius's intense self-criticism; he would withhold or suppress anything that failed to meet his self-imposed standards: "It was this attitude that brought about the destruction of the Eighth Symphony, but the very same trait forced him to keep on revising the Fifth until it was perfect."[34] The historian Mark McKenna agrees that Sibelius became stifled by a combination of perfectionism and increasing self-doubt. The myth, sustained for more than 15 years, that Sibelius was still working on the symphony was, according to McKenna, a deliberate fiction: "To admit that he had stopped completely would be to admit the unthinkable—that he was no longer a composer".[18]

[calyptorhynchus]

My pet theory as to why he couldn't finish it is that he couldn't get it to end in the right key. Some of his symphonies, ie 4 & 6 show very strong tonal conflict, but his last two major works, the 7th and Tapiola, are unusually fixed in their respective keys, almost as though he was trying to avoid totally conflicted music.

I think that Sibelius started a symphony where the music wanted to be moving away from the initial tonic (progressive tonality), but unlike Nielsen he couldn't embrace this, and spent the rest of his life trying to bend it back to the tonic. Just as well he didn't, but he should have just taken a deep breath and published.

Those fragments sound very like the 6th btw.

[guest377]

I think this was in one of the other Forums that someone mentioned his son in law may have retrieved it out of the stove...  "In June he (Sibelius) discussed the (8th) symphony with his future son-in-law Jussi Jalas and provided another reason for its non-completion: "For each of my symphonies I have developed a special technique. It can't be something superficial, it has to be something that has been lived though. In my new work I am struggling with precisely these issues." Sibelius also told Jalas that all rough sketches and drafts were to be burned after his death; he did not want anyone labelling these rejected scraps as "Sibelius letzten [sic] Gedanken" (Sibelius's last thoughts).[28]

At some time in the mid-1940s, probably in 1945, Sibelius and Aino together burned a large number of the composer's manuscripts on the stove in the dining room at Ainola. There is no record of what was burned; while most commentators assume that the Eighth Symphony was among the works destroyed, Kilpeläinen observes that there had been at least two manuscripts of the work—the original and Voigt's copy—as well as sketches and fragments of earlier versions. It is possible, says Kilpeläinen, that Sibelius may not have burned them all.[16]

this is from Wiki... I think one of the commentators mentioned that his son in law had intimate knowledge of the 8th and "may have" pulled a copy from the stove.....   I'll see if there was a source for that note.


http://www.fmq.fi/1995/12/sibelius-eight-what-happened-to-it/

[BigEdLB]

I think this was in one of the other Forums that someone mentioned his son in law may have retrieved it out of the stove...  "In June he (Sibelius) discussed the (8th) symphony with his future son-in-law Jussi Jalas and provided another reason for its non-completion: "For each of my symphonies I have developed a special technique. It can't be something superficial, it has to be something that has been lived though. In my new work I am struggling with precisely these issues." Sibelius also told Jalas that all rough sketches and drafts were to be burned after his death; he did not want anyone labelling these rejected scraps as "Sibelius letzten [sic] Gedanken" (Sibelius's last thoughts).[28]

At some time in the mid-1940s, probably in 1945, Sibelius and Aino together burned a large number of the composer's manuscripts on the stove in the dining room at Ainola. There is no record of what was burned; while most commentators assume that the Eighth Symphony was among the works destroyed, Kilpeläinen observes that there had been at least two manuscripts of the work—the original and Voigt's copy—as well as sketches and fragments of earlier versions. It is possible, says Kilpeläinen, that Sibelius may not have burned them all.[16]

this is from Wiki... I think one of the commentators mentioned that his son in law had intimate knowledge of the 8th and "may have" pulled a copy from the stove.....   I'll see if there was a source for that note.


http://www.fmq.fi/1995/12/sibelius-eight-what-happened-to-it/

He had 4 daughters and a whole bunch of grandkids and appropriate sons in law...  Too many people to keep track of so a clever son in law who wanted to preserve something for posterity might be a hero in this case...

[relm1]

I think this was in one of the other Forums that someone mentioned his son in law may have retrieved it out of the stove...  "In June he (Sibelius) discussed the (8th) symphony with his future son-in-law Jussi Jalas and provided another reason for its non-completion: "For each of my symphonies I have developed a special technique. It can't be something superficial, it has to be something that has been lived though. In my new work I am struggling with precisely these issues." Sibelius also told Jalas that all rough sketches and drafts were to be burned after his death; he did not want anyone labelling these rejected scraps as "Sibelius letzten [sic] Gedanken" (Sibelius's last thoughts).[28]

At some time in the mid-1940s, probably in 1945, Sibelius and Aino together burned a large number of the composer's manuscripts on the stove in the dining room at Ainola. There is no record of what was burned; while most commentators assume that the Eighth Symphony was among the works destroyed, Kilpeläinen observes that there had been at least two manuscripts of the work—the original and Voigt's copy—as well as sketches and fragments of earlier versions. It is possible, says Kilpeläinen, that Sibelius may not have burned them all.[16]

this is from Wiki... I think one of the commentators mentioned that his son in law had intimate knowledge of the 8th and "may have" pulled a copy from the stove.....   I'll see if there was a source for that note.


http://www.fmq.fi/1995/12/sibelius-eight-what-happened-to-it/

He had 4 daughters and a whole bunch of grandkids and appropriate sons in law...  Too many people to keep track of so a clever son in law who wanted to preserve something for posterity might be a hero in this case...

Ahhhh!  Don't tantalize us like that!  Give us his/her phone number or something.

[guest377]

 Sibelius also told Jalas that all rough sketches and drafts were to be burned after his death; he did not want anyone labelling these rejected scraps as "Sibelius letzten [sic] Gedanken" (Sibelius's last thoughts).[28]

perhaps, Jalas had those draft copies on the Sym no 8. and decided not to burn them as directed by Jean... who knows....