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Lyrita futures


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Author Topic: Lyrita futures  (Read 1890 times)
cilgwyn
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« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2017, 02:32:01 pm »

Oh,I like both....but I think the Second is even better. I remember being excited by the third when I first heard it. I taped it off the radio in the mid 90's,I think? The last time I listened to it,I felt it was a bit of step down after the first two. The finale of the Second symphony is particularly exciting. I wonder whether the Fricker Fourth will be in Stereo? The first three have all been broadcast,fairly,recently. I'm not sure when the Fourth was last broacast. I think the off air recording here is of a much earlier broacast?
Incidentally,if Simpson can have his cycle of symphonies available on cd,I really don't see why Fricker shouldn't?
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Christo
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« Reply #31 on: July 15, 2017, 09:09:39 pm »

After several unanswered posts on the 'Fricker' thread,at the GMG,I have to assume that,with the homourable exception of vandermolen,who likes about two of his symphonies,there is absolutely zero interest amongs all the members there! Sad Oh well,more fool them!! Grin I can see a pre-order for a 2 cd set in the offing! Smiley Smiley :
+1 :-)
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… music is not only an `entertainment’, nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.  RVW, 1948
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« Reply #32 on: July 15, 2017, 10:09:51 pm »

Regarding the Symphonies Nos. 1-4 by Fricker there are several recordings available on this site and on You Tube.

Symphony No.1: Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra (Max Rudolf) (1959); Louisville Orchestra (Robert Whitney) (LP, 1967); New Philharmonia Orchestra (Sir Charles Mackerras) (date
                            unknown); BBC Northern Symphony Orchestra (Bryden Thomson) (1980); BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra (Martyn Brabbins) (1995)

Symphony No.2: Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra (Sir John Pritchard) (1955; HMV LP; EMI CD 2003); BBC Northern Symphony Orchestra (Albert Rosen) (date unknown at
                               present)

Symphony No.3: BBC Northern Symphony Orchestra (Sir Edward Downes) (date unknown at present); BBC Northern Symphony Orchestra (John Carewe) (1974); BBC Philharmonic
                           Orchestra (Barry Wordsworth) (1995)

Symphony No.4: City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra (Hugo Rignold) (1967); BBC Northern Symphony Orchestra (Maurice Handford) (1978)

The forthcoming Lyrita two-cd set has the Bryden Thomson version of No.1, the Albert Rosen version of No.2, the Edward Downes version of No.3 and the Maurice Handford version of No.4. When more details become available we shall find out the dates of the Rosen/No.2 and the Downes/No.3.

It is an unfortunate aspect of the Lyrita/Richard Itter project that the two most recent broadcast performances: Brabbins in No.1 and Wordsworth in No.3 lie just outside the period when Itter was making his recordings. These performances are obviously in more modern sound quality and both seem to me to be particularly fine performances. That does not mean that they are nrcessarily superior versions to the Thomson or the Downes. Both of these fine conductors could be relied on to turn in first-class interpretations.

However, Fricker's music (described as freely atonal) has always had a huge attraction for me and it will be splendid to have all five of his symphonies on cd.

.........and, while I am (possibly notoriously Grin) an addict of the symphony as a musical form I do hope that Lyrita will not ignore the concertos written by composers like Daniel Jones and Peter Racine Fricker. These too deserve to be on cd Smiley

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cilgwyn
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« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2017, 01:09:34 pm »

Thank you very much for your very detailed reply,Dundonnell. So,some of the recordings could be quite old? A question,now. Approximately,when did Itter begin making stereo recordings? It would be a pity if some of these have to be presented on cd, for the first time,in mono,when it would be to their advantage,to be heard in stereo. I don't mind mono recordings. In fact,I rather like them. But some people don't. People nowadays rather expect a recording to be in the best possible sound quality;and certainly,at the very least,in stereo! On a more philosphical level,I'm sure that,even if any of these symphonies were recorded in mono,they will be of very high quality. And,please note,I'm not an ingrate! Roll Eyes Grin I'm just making some points. I will be as grateful as anyone here to have these symphonies on cd. I'm also pretty confident that Lyrita would not allow anything to be released on cd unless it was of an appropriately high quality.

I listened to the first three Fricker symphonies again last night. I have to say that I could not agree with calyptorhyncus less! Grin I think these are marvellous symphonies.Well,at least the first two are. After reading calyptorhyncus' post I must admit,I did concentrate on the second symphony. I find this music very absorbing. It really draws me into it's soundworld. It keeps my attention throughout,and has,at least to my ears,all the hallmarks that make a real symphony;all the way to that very thrilling finale. And I will lay my cards on the table here. I think the finale of Fricker's second symphony is one of the most thrilling finale's of any British symphony. It really is quite viscerally exciting! Edge of the seat stuff. That's how good it is. I also like his slow movements. The quiet bits,if you like! I find them very haunting. They really seem to get right into the corners of your mind. In their own,somewhat,ascerbic way,they really are quite beautiful. But not in the obvious way! What also surprises me,is the fact that Fricker isn't the kind of composer that usually appeals to me. Cooke,Wordworth,and even Rubbra,I'm afraid (and my apologies to Dundonnell) are not really my cup of tea (as they say!). That 'greyness' of texture. It all seems a bit too monotone for me. I need a bit more colour! Daniel Jones,for example. His music is very craggy,in some ways;but he relieves the texture with a surprising amount of orchestral colour. It can even be quite ear tickling at times. For example some of the orchestration in his eighth symphony is quite dazzling. Another example. The second movement of the Fourth. And so on. So why do I like Fricker? Well,apart from the fact that his orchestration can be quite suprising. The use of pianos and harps. Exciting use of percussion,on occasion. Suprisingly,it's not even that. What particularly attracts me to Fricker is his thrilling use of the orchestra. The tautness of his creations. His movements are just so power packed,so full of energy. At times,it just seems to be simmering away under the surface. Even in the slow movements. Or perhaps a momentary respite? The energy in the final movement of the second is a case in point. It occurs again,in the third symphony.Which I have left till last,for a reason. The creative energy seems to burn at a slightly lower level than in the first two symphonies. But again it's there,and the ferocity breaks out. The first movement for example. I'm afraid I had to stop listening before I got to the final movement,but I will have another more attentive listen,later on!

The other composer I like who,is,at least to my ears,the closest in sound to Fricker (of all the composers in my collection) is Peter Mennin. Again,there is a certain 'greyness' of texture. As a matter of fact,I feel that Fricker's orchestration is pretty colourful by comparison! But like Fricker,Mennin's music seems so full of energy.The finale of the Fifth,the first symphony I ever heard by this composer,is similarly power packed and thrilling! It's final pages an edge of the seat ride to the finish!
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« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2017, 01:13:16 pm »

More details now on the amazon page. The recordings DO appear to be in stereo, all dating from 1980 broadcasts, and there are also a couple of overtures included.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B073LWJWS9/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1500379784&sr=1-1&keywords=lyrita
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« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2017, 03:02:55 pm »

Thanks for this link.

It is good to hear that these are in stereo sound. I wonder a little about the dates given as broadcasts made between September and October 1980. These performances were certainly broadcast then but they were part of the BBC's 60th birthday tribute to the composer. Whether some of these recordings had been made some years earlier I do not know. It is possible.

What strikes me however is that in 1980 Fricker's standing was so high and the BBC so "enlightened" and conscious of the quality of his music that they gave him several broadcast performances as a birthday tribute! A friend of mine, now retired from the BBC but the father of a conductor, told me recently that he doubts that many BBC producers of today have ever heard a note of Fricker's music
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« Reply #36 on: July 19, 2017, 11:06:42 am »

I notice,that Lyrita are also releasing cd of Rubbra being released in August. Have these works been available on cd before?

Sinfonia Concertante
Violin Concerto
Cyril Scott: Consolation (Rubbra Playing the piano)

I believe I've got a cassette with an off-air recording of Rubbra conducting his own Fourth Symphony on it. I notice it doesn't seem to be listed in the music lbrary here. I must transfer it to a cd-r. I like recordings of composers conducting their own music. Perhaps it will help me to crack Rubbra,too?!! Grin
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« Reply #37 on: July 19, 2017, 01:05:26 pm »

The Violin Concerto has definitely been available on CD, a Naxos release. Don't know about the others.
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« Reply #38 on: July 19, 2017, 01:14:41 pm »

I refer you to my post of May 27 on this thread.

Howard Shelley plays the Sinfonia Concertante with the BBC NOW under Richard Hickox on Chandos 9966. Krysia Osostowicz the Violin Concerto with the Ulster Orchestra/Takuo Yuasa on Naxos 8.557591.

Both performances are excellent and in modern sound. I really don't understand why Lyrita think that these vintage performances should be resurrected.

The George Lloyd Symphonies Nos. 6 and 7 make some sense in so far as Edward Downes was the champion of the Lloyd revival in the early 1980s and Lyrita recorded Nos. 4,5 and 8 with him on LP at that time. The Rubbra? I love Rubbra's music but I cannot see me buying this "new" cd unless someone gives me a compelling reason to do so. Lyrita are better to concentrate, I would argue, on music which is not already on cd. That should be the priority......at least whilst I am still around to buy their releases
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cilgwyn
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« Reply #39 on: July 19, 2017, 02:07:59 pm »

Oh dear,here we go again,then!! So even a Rubbra admirer,with an Avatar like yourself,Dundonnell,isn't too thrilled!!! It does seem a waste of money and time,when they could be releasing music that isn't available on cd. It is very hard to follow their line of thinking here. I am grateful for what they are doing,however! I recently received the cd of Symphonies 1 & 10 by Daniel Jones. I would have bought it earlier,but I've had to watch the pennies a bit,of late!! Sad Grin For anyone who still thinks that their recordings of Daniel Jones symphonies,downloaded here,are perfectly adequate;be prepared for a shock! There is simply no comparison! The Lyrita transfers are a revelation!! Symphony No 1,in particular. Vandermolen referring to it as 'Sibelian'. I find it very engrossing. Very satisfying. What a tremendous first effort. But,I enjoyed the tenth,as well. These transfers really bring home what a great cycle of symphonies a recording label like Bis is missing out on. And the BBC NOW!! More fool them,I say!! Roll Eyes Grin I will be ordering The Lyrita cd of Symphonies 2 & 11 as soon as I am able to!! Baliff's,or not!! Angry Grin
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« Reply #40 on: July 19, 2017, 03:35:29 pm »

Your comments echo a theme behind many of my observations over the years. There are those with sufficient disposable income to buy multiple recordings of the same piece. I have heard of people with as many as 20 different versions of the same opera in their collection.

I have never been able to get my head round this. I can understand having, let's say, three or four versions of, let's again say, the same Vaughan Williams symphony and being able to savour different interpretations but twenty!!??

However, more pertinently, there is the issue of cost. I used to be able to buy around 10 cds a month. Today I no longer have the "need" to do so. With 3,000 cds on my shelves I only "need" to add recordings of works not previously available. That usually works out at two or three per month, if that. But, just as importantly, in retirement I do have less income and could no longer afford to buy so many cds every month. Those who are like me, or are for whatever reason less well off, simply cannot afford to spend money on duplications.

....but perhaps we are not the target audience for record companies? If I was managing Lyrita I would actually think that we are exactly their potential target market!!
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cilgwyn
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« Reply #41 on: July 19, 2017, 05:20:49 pm »

I would have thought so,too! I did actually shell out on some multiple copies of Mozart operas and Mahler symphonies a while back. I wish I hadn't! Not because,I don't like them;but because now I've got them,like allot of collectors,I don't find it easy too part with them...and they take up room!!  As time goes on,I might gradually part with some of them. It is interesting listening to different versions;but I don't think I will be doing that one again!! Three or for versions at the most,is quite enough! I know that there are people at the GMG who have multiple cycles of virtually every (if not all) the Mahler symphonies available. I didn't go quite that far..........otherwise I'd be typing this at an internet cafe!! Sad Grin  I just chose a few of the most interesting recordings of each symphony. In fact,the only complete Mahler cycle I own is that of Abravanel! Taking another example. Holst's The Planets. It is surprising how different interpretations can often be. Play Herrmann,then Steinberg,for example!! I like listening to Holst's own recordings,and Sargent's recording with the BBC Symphony Orchestra. The first recording I ever actually owned on Lp. I also have the Emerson Lake and Palmer 'interpretation' Shocked Grin....but there really are only so many recordings I really need,or can afford,of that work,wonderful as that old warhorse,undoubtedly is! I also,have several recordings of Beethoven symphonies. Some of these recordings are what are termed as 'historic'. For example,the Weingartner,which was the first complete cycle ever recorded by a single conductor. I have some by Beecham,Richard Strauss,Fried,Karajan,Erich Kleiber,Wyn Morris (once dubbed,the "Welsh Furtwangler") and Zinman. The only complete cycle's I have are that of Weingartner,and Karajan's sixties traversal. I don't want every single recorded cycle,though. Even if I could afford them,or find the room. If I could find the room,or money,I must admit,I wouldn't mind adding a little Furtwangler? Although,that reminds me. I've got his famous Ninth on my pc,somewhere?! I don't think I'd want any others,really. At least,I hope not! Another example? I have more than one copy of Vaughan Williams' symphonies. I have the Haitink and Previn recordings of the Sinfonia Antartica,and the two recordings by Boult. I also have the Barbirolli,Henry Wood,Dan Godfrey,Hickox and Boult recordings of the London Symphony;and it is, undoubtedly,interesting to compare and enjoy these performances. The only complete cycle I have,though,is the stereo one,by Boult. Again,I'm not sure I would want another complete cycle? On the whole I prefer to stick to a few interpretations of a work,which particularl interests me,at the most. Of course,if I had piles of money I suppose I could buy every Vaughan Williams cycle available? I could even go so far as to store them in a separate wing of my house!! As it stands,I will have to either rig up some W.Heath Robinson contraption,or just do as Dundonnell does.....and buy recordings of works that I don't have;or at least in satisfactory recordings.

All of which brings me back to the forthcoming Lyrita releases of Daniel Jones and Fricker!! Grin
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« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2017, 05:34:23 pm »

Arrived in the post today the Edward Downes recordings(and first performances) of the George Lloyd Symphonies Nos. 6 and 7. Worth having I think- even if you possess, as do I, Lloyd's own recordings on Albany- simply because Downes was such a passionate advocate and champion of the composer's music,although I do detect some rough edges in the performances.

 and the Seventh Symphony is one of Lloyd's best with its marvellous slow movement and its glorious and gorgeous "big tune"
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« Reply #43 on: September 15, 2017, 02:36:52 pm »

Having just listened to the brief clips of the Lloyd 6&7 on Lyrita, I have to say that, for all some rough edges, they do sound a lot more vehement and energized than the composers own slightly comfortable recordings - and thus justifying their reissue after all. I'm going to revise my wary initial welcome and order this one! Hopefully the reissue of Bax 2nd/Goosens will be equally revelatory - given that the Dutton issue was taken from very worn discs, whereas Richard Itters own was (presumably?) unplayed and unused?
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« Reply #44 on: September 15, 2017, 09:18:13 pm »

I also feel that Edward Downes is a better advocate for Georg Lloyd, than the composer himself.
The 7th is my favourite Lloyd symphony.

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