The Art-Music Forum
October 23, 2017, 10:37:58 am
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Here you may discover hundreds of little-known composers, hear thousands of long-forgotten compositions, contribute your own rare (non-copyright) recordings, and discuss all the Arts in an erudite and decorous atmosphere full of freedom and delight. To participate, simply log in or register.
 
  Home Help Search Gallery Staff List Login Register  

Composers under National Socialism


Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Composers under National Socialism  (Read 191 times)
dhibbard
Level 7
*******

Times thanked: 35
Offline Offline

Posts: 1854


View Profile
« on: December 15, 2016, 05:15:28 am »

Thought I would start a thread under this title.  As a history buff and WW2 history buff, I've been interested in reading about composers living under the Nazis and the National Socialist Party.  One particular composer was Paul von Klenau.  Here is some info from wiki.  Feel free to add others to this thread:


Klenau's role under National Socialism has been the subject of discussion. Fred Prieberg characterizes Klenau's relationship with the Nazis as one of mutual opportunism: for the régime, he could be useful as a campaigner for cultural ties between Germany and Denmark; for Klenau this attitude opened doors that remained closed to others. By way of example, Prieberg cites the seemingly unproblematic premiere of Klenau's three twelve-tone operas in a time when twelve-tone techniques were condemned as "cultural Bolshevism".[5]

According to Schoenberg,[6] Klenau once defended his use of the twelve-tone technique as the basis of an opera as an example of National Socialist art, making an analogy with the Führerprinzip, where everything in the piece needed to follow the leader. This, and a political analogy made by Socialist composers, Schoenberg equally derided as "nonsense." He refers to Klenau as "the German composer, Paul von Klenau".

Klenau's musical output, some of which is undergoing recording revival, includes nine symphonies,[3] three string quartets, and a setting (1919) of Rainer Maria Rilke's "Die Weise von Liebe und Tod des Cornets Christoph Rilke"[3] among other works.
Works (selection)
Report Spam   Logged

Social Buttons

erato
Level 2
**

Times thanked: 2
Offline Offline

Posts: 67


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2016, 06:23:26 pm »

premiere of Klenau's three twelve-tone operas

Nothing could be more repellent. I hope they burn the scores so that this garbage is never revived.
Why in the world would you deny others the chance to hear them?
Report Spam   Logged
shamus
Level 4
****

Times thanked: 63
Offline Offline

Posts: 358


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2016, 07:21:45 pm »

Since I am not sure how bravely I would have stood up to fight fascism (may have to learn that soon here in good old USA) I try not to judge too harshly composers who seemed to survive but also to some extent collaborate with authoritarian governments. Kind of a double-edged sword perhaps, but some of the music is beautiful enough on its own (Trapp, Butting, et al). I remember enjoying very much the music of the East German composers that was on all those wonderful Nova and Eterna LPs along with the Muza LPs from Poland, Supraphon and Panton from what was Czechoslavia. I also like some of the western-style orchestral music from China. I will have to say, however that I hate the committee-composed stuff from North Korea! Don't care for some of the boiler-plate Russian music written for Stalin and Lenin, but even nasty guys like Pfitzner and Khrennikov wrote some pretty stuff and everybody knows Wagner's story and I just can't resist the beauty of his music. So, guess this discussion has to devolve to personal choice of what to listen to, even if it is sometimes hard to "forgive" those who wrote it. And I shall cast not the first stone, (maybe the second one?), but there again who knows. I have been brave, cowardly, kind, mean, tolerant, intolerant, smart, stupid sometimes all in the same day, kind of try to use the nice ones more often than the others. And I like Klenau's sounds.
Report Spam   Logged
erato
Level 2
**

Times thanked: 2
Offline Offline

Posts: 67


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2016, 07:28:11 pm »

Why in the world would you deny others the chance to hear them?

On the same basis that the major works of Nazi propaganda remain banned in Germany to this day.

But I am sure that this is exactly the kind of response user DHibbard hoped to provoke.
[/quote]I didn't see any mention of them being propagandistic? Sure, the composer may have been a nazi, but if that is the sole criterion of burning them we're opening a can of worms, seeing that the nazis were enthusiastic burners of things produced by perople they didn't like. If they are propagandistic that may be another matter, but well, some works by Shostakovich and Prokofiev are pretty stalinist.....
Report Spam   Logged
dhibbard
Level 7
*******

Times thanked: 35
Offline Offline

Posts: 1854


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2016, 07:50:14 pm »

Thought I would start a thread under this title.  As a history buff and WW2 history buff, I've been interested in reading about composers living under the Nazis and the National Socialist Party.  One particular composer was Paul von Klenau.  Here is some info from wiki.  Feel free to add others to this thread:


Klenau's role under National Socialism has been the subject of discussion. Fred Prieberg characterizes Klenau's relationship with the Nazis as one of mutual opportunism: for the régime, he could be useful as a campaigner for cultural ties between Germany and Denmark; for Klenau this attitude opened doors that remained closed to others. By way of example, Prieberg cites the seemingly unproblematic premiere of Klenau's three twelve-tone operas in a time when twelve-tone techniques were condemned as "cultural Bolshevism".[5]

According to Schoenberg,[6] Klenau once defended his use of the twelve-tone technique as the basis of an opera as an example of National Socialist art, making an analogy with the Führerprinzip, where everything in the piece needed to follow the leader. This, and a political analogy made by Socialist composers, Schoenberg equally derided as "nonsense." He refers to Klenau as "the German composer, Paul von Klenau".

Klenau's musical output, some of which is undergoing recording revival, includes nine symphonies,[3] three string quartets, and a setting (1919) of Rainer Maria Rilke's "Die Weise von Liebe und Tod des Cornets Christoph Rilke"[3] among other works.
Works (selection)


well of course, I'm not condoning the Nazi Party or obviously anything promoting that... just trying to get collect some of the information about the composers that lived thru that horrible era, and had the "boot on their face"  as far as what they could compose and what was allowable under the Nazi's.     Paul Kletzki is another example...because he was Jewish, he left Nazi Germany in 1933 and moved to Italy, however due to the anti-semitism of the Italian Fascist regime he moved to the Soviet Union in 1936. He later went to live in Switzerland. 





Report Spam   Logged
Toby Esterhase
Level 7
*******

Times thanked: 70
Offline Offline

Posts: 1002



View Profile
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2017, 12:59:00 am »

This on musical life during Mussolini's government
https://www.apemusicale.it/joomla/recensioni/14-libri/3115-libri-zignani-la-storia-negata
Report Spam   Logged

Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Bookmark this site! | Upgrade This Forum
SMF For Free - Create your own Forum

Buy traffic for your forum/website
traffic-masters
Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines