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Van Dieren Chinese Symphony on Lyrita

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guest251
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« on: August 19, 2016, 06:42:17 pm »

We knew this was on its way, and it's now announced for November release:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bernard-van-Dieren-Chinese-Symphony/dp/B01KKE6JAU/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1471628191&sr=1-1&keywords=lyrita
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Dundonnell
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« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2016, 07:11:28 pm »

Good news indeed!

I note that Lyrita has scheduled for October release broadcast recordings of Humphrey Searle's Symphonies Nos. 3 and 5, the Zodiac Variations and "Labyrinth" for orchestra.
The latter two pieces are certainly very welcome-since they are not on cd. The symphonies have however already been issued by CPO (BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra/Alun Francis). Whilst alternative performances/recordings are always worth having I do wonder why Lyrita are once gain (as with the Arthur Butterworth Symphonies Nos. 1 and 4) choosing to issue works already on cd rather than those which are not. There are so many British symphonies which Itter probably recorded but which ae not on cd-several Daniel Jones symphonies for example. They may-hopefully will-come in time but I am a little puzzled.
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« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2016, 07:20:50 pm »

Wow! I never thought I'd see the day! The mysterious Bernard Van Dieren and his equally mysterious sounding Chinese Symphony. Albeit,not so mysterious now,because there is a download available here. For years I have heard mention of his name and perused lists of his compositions. Now,suddenly there is a brand new recording of his near mythical Chinese symphony that I can buy,hold and play (and some other music on it). Suddenly,legend becomes reality. Will it be worth the long wait? Will it be a pre-order? Yes,I've heard so much about this enigmatic figure that I want to find out what his music is really like in up to date sound. Will he still be a mystery rolled up in an enigma after I've listened to the cd more than once? Will Bernard Van Dieren's music change the course of my life? Will I have a third slice of toast and marmite for breakfast tomorrow morning....or just two?!! :o

Another pre-order,I fear. This will be not long after the bfi release of the Wages of Fear,which I want to show to my 84 year old father,who saw it in the cinema many years ago. I'm going to have to serioiusly think about taking up busking!

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« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2016, 01:24:27 am »

I have listened to the off-air recording of the Chinese Symphony. It is not an easy work to come to terms with and I am not sure exactly what to make of it. There is no doubt that it will require many listenings to decide if it is the masterpiece claimed for it by Constant Lambert amongst others.

I reserve judgment.
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« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2016, 08:37:05 am »

I feel the same way. It is a decidedly strange work - a  tough nut to crack.
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« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2016, 08:53:24 am »

Another one here.
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… music is not only an `entertainment’, nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.  RVW, 1948
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« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2016, 11:09:40 am »

I tend to agree. It's not the kind of music I listen to,really;although I'm open minded. I'll try things. But this work seems to have achieved almost an mythical status........or at least it did,before the internet took off. If you didn't hear it on the radio you might have been the recipient of a cassette tape in a brown package sent through the post. Hands trembling with anticipation you would have placed the cassette in your tape deck;or cassette recorder!! Any cassettes or cds (not many) seem to go out of circulation very rapidly and fetch enormous prices from sellers. The stuff you read about him and his circle make him sound very intriguing;but is he really? We'll soon find out. Or maybe we'll go on wondering the merits of his musical composition until we can hear some more? I just read on Wikpedia that Constant Lambert claimed the opening movement to Horoscope was dictated to him by Van Dieren from beyond the grave. Well that was clever of him!! I'm glad that Lyrita chose to issue new digital recordings instead of the broadcast recording. I think with a composer as elusive as Dieren is at the moment,only a really first class recordings of his music with this kind of sound quality can really help us to evaluate his music and decide where his legacy stands in relation to his contemporaries. I think it is wonderful that Lyrita have provided us with this opportunity. If it's successful,maybe someone else will be tempted to take the plunge. It also makes a change for a recording label to choose a neglected composer that's a little more thorny and a bit less easy on the ears. Whether we will learn to love Bernard Van Dieren or how many repeat visits cds of his music will make to our cd players is of course another matter;but it looks as if we might eventually find out.

The short version now: Not sure. Tough. Great release. Hopefully find out?!! ;D
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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2016, 11:50:25 am »

Here BTW is the previous recording with the much discussed tape hiss. Huub Kerstens conducting the Amsterdam Philharmonic Orchestra & Amsterdam University Chorus in a 1983 radio broadcast - on Youtube:


For those of us who can't wait.  :)
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… music is not only an `entertainment’, nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.  RVW, 1948
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« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2016, 12:27:49 pm »

uninteresting, like most of the newer Lyrita stuff  :'(
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Here is a short list of relevant british composers:
cilgwyn
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« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2016, 01:59:10 pm »

What would you like to see Lyrita release?

I was interested to read just now,that this recording came about as a result of a bequest some years ago. The stipulation was that the money could only be used for a recording of the Chinese Symphony. I have also read on a blog about Itter's death,and subsequent funeral,that certain people "in the know" believed that it wasn't worth recording!
Well,we can judge for ourselves soon.
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« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2016, 03:21:12 pm »

Elusive but visionary and quite captivating music.  Both ecstatic and relentless.  For sure a very strong Delian element also.  I loved it (the YT recording).  No idea what's being sung, however.
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« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2016, 05:39:50 pm »

uninteresting, like most of the newer Lyrita stuff  :'(

You are, of course, fully entitled to your opinion.

Others of us are just as entitled to ours. I happen to find most releases of previously neglected works which have been praised by reputable and, in some cases, eminent musicians at least "interesting". Sometimes I find myself extremely impressed by the music, sometimes underwhelmed. But the day when I find releases of such music "uninteresting" will be a sad day for me because I will have lost that enquiring "interest" in the neglected which has sustained me for the last half century.
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« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2016, 07:14:52 pm »

uninteresting, like most of the newer Lyrita stuff  :'(

You are, of course, fully entitled to your opinion.

Others of us are just as entitled to ours. I happen to find most releases of previously neglected works which have been praised by reputable and, in some cases, eminent musicians at least "interesting". Sometimes I find myself extremely impressed by the music, sometimes underwhelmed. But the day when I find releases of such music "uninteresting" will be a sad day for me because I will have lost that enquiring "interest" in the neglected which has sustained me for the last half century.

Unless I'm mistaken about the Delius influence (which seems readily apparent to me) any enthusiasm you might find for this will have to be inspired by other avenues of approach and suggestiveness, I suppose.  There's a meandering and nebulous quality to much of it that lacks the forthrightness you typically best respond to.
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« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2016, 07:59:17 pm »

uninteresting, like most of the newer Lyrita stuff  :'(

You are, of course, fully entitled to your opinion.

Others of us are just as entitled to ours. I happen to find most releases of previously neglected works which have been praised by reputable and, in some cases, eminent musicians at least "interesting". Sometimes I find myself extremely impressed by the music, sometimes underwhelmed. But the day when I find releases of such music "uninteresting" will be a sad day for me because I will have lost that enquiring "interest" in the neglected which has sustained me for the last half century.

Unless I'm mistaken about the Delius influence (which seems readily apparent to me) any enthusiasm you might find for this will have to be inspired by other avenues of approach and suggestiveness, I suppose.  There's a meandering and nebulous quality to much of it that lacks the forthrightness you typically best respond to.

You know my tastes too well ;D ;D
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« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2016, 08:06:35 am »

It's very much of its time, given its ecstatic-mystical-rhapsodic character. Think, for instance, of what Roslavets was writing at about the same period. I'm also reminded a bit of Scott and even Schoenberg.

It will be much easier to appreciate it properly in a modern stereo recording rather than the old taped broadcast.
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