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Sullivan and Brian on Dutton

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Christo
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... an opening of those magic casements ...


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« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2016, 02:50:41 pm »

Am i right that we now have almost all 32 Brian symphonies on CD, unless No. 26. Or have i miscount ? :)

Breaking - just read that conductor Alexander Walker plans to have recordings sessions of Havergal Brian's symphonies nos. 8, 21 and 26 in Moscow with Symphony Orchestra New Russia in September. That will make the cycle complete. See: http://www.alexanderwalker.org/
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… music is not only an `entertainment’, nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.  RVW, 1948
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« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2016, 01:23:07 am »

Am i right that we now have almost all 32 Brian symphonies on CD, unless No. 26. Or have i miscount ? :)

Breaking - just read that conductor Alexander Walker plans to have recordings sessions of Havergal Brian's symphonies nos. 8, 21 and 26 in Moscow with Symphony Orchestra New Russia in September. That will make the cycle complete. See: http://www.alexanderwalker.org/

Those of us who are members of the Havergal Brian Society were aware of this and of the continuing support of the Society for the project. The HBS has further plans-including a hoped-for recording of the Opera "Faust". This will cost the astronomical sum of £100,000. However, the HBS spent £60,000 in sponsorship over 2014 and 2015 and one member has already given £10,000 to the Society. With unallocated reserves of £30,000 they are almost halfway towards the target for "Faust".

Havergal Brian may have suffered more than his fair share of the slings and arrows in his lifetime but he is indeed fortunate to have such incredibly generous supporters today :)

(Would that some other composers had the same degree of support :()
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cilgwyn
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« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2016, 09:12:40 am »

Have you seen the Faust Fund page on the HB website,Dundonnell? (Betcha have! ;D)  The graph there is showing that they have reached just over 85% of their target!! They're very nearly at 90%!!!!!!! The aim was to record Faust "hopefully before 2022" (The quote is from one of Johann's posts at the GMG's HB thread). Seems a complete recording could be a little earlier than they though!!! :o ;D The Rutland Boughton trust (and all hail to them,by the way!!) and others like them,can only dream about funding like this!
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Dundonnell
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« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2016, 02:02:45 pm »

You know...I hate to admit this and it is very ignoble of me.....but, at times, I am jealous of the apparent ease with which the HBS is able to raise so much money so quickly.

Havergal Brian was a very, very good composer. He wrote some great music (however we might define the word "great"). He deserves the amazingly extensive coverage that his music is receiving on cd. Much of the music should be heard in the concert hall.

But there ARE other composers of great merit who also deserve to be rescued from neglect. Perhaps one day-in the future of course-the HBS Society might see fit to allocate funds to other projects (as the RVW Trust does). I know that there is a very big difference between a Trust, set up specifically for defined purposes, and a Society, like the HBS and a huge gulf between the status of RVW and HB but..............
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cilgwyn
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« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2016, 03:31:47 pm »

Of course,they still haven't recorded everything yet! After Faust,there's still Turandot,The Cenci,Agamemnon,Das Siegeslied,a really good third. They should be free to record some one else. I wonder what they would record? A composer Brian liked?
I know what you mean,Dundonnell. If only some other neglected composers I (or you) enjoy had a cult following!
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Dundonnell
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« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2016, 04:07:12 pm »

Yes, I fully appreciate that there are other works which could be recorded-you mention the operas and there are a few of the symphonies which could do withy a fresher version (although I doubt that Naxos would be interested).

It is interesting that you use the phrase "cult following". There have, of course, been accusations levelled by certain unfriendly critics against HB fans that they are essentially members of a "cult". That is unfair. But it is true that Brian did admire other composers. Many of these are well-established and very far from neglected. He did however express his admiration for the music of Arnold Cooke.

Brian's life story has a romantic aura to it which has attracted those who are naturally drawn to that sort of thing. Their support for his music is what the music undoubtedly deserves but other composers suffer neglect which is also undeserved. I simply do not buy into the assertion that composers get what they deserve and that intrinsic merit will always be recognised.
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cilgwyn
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« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2016, 05:34:52 pm »

I was going to apologise for using that word. I like Brian's music allot,and regularly contribute to the HB thread at the GMG. I do think there is a bit of what is referred to as a 'cult-y' thing about his music. And you do use the term used,at times,in reference to his admirers. (For instance;I've never heard of Bax having a cult following!) That's not to say that I think the enthusiasm of his admirers is deluded or wrong;I just feel that there ARE actually other neglected composers who are just as interesting in their own way and deserve just as much attention,or certainly a good deal more than they get. There does seem to be something about Havergal Brian that draws people to him,and I don't think it's just his music. Of course the word cult does have a derogatory quality. It brings to mind sinister images,dodgy religious cults. I shouldn't have used it really and I apologise if my use of it causes any offence. That said,as someone who has enjoyed Brian's music for over thirty years;if there is a cult,I'm proud to be a part of it!
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Neil McGowan
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« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2016, 08:05:45 pm »

a hoped-for recording of the Opera "Faust". This will cost the astronomical sum of £100,000.

Frankly it is not all that astronomical :)  I don't know how many roles there are in this opera, but HB rarely stinted himself on financial grounds - let's say there are 2-3 main roles, 6-7 major roles, and a further 4-5 minor roles which might be covered by a smaller number of performers, doubling?  (Heaven help us if we need a chorus too  ::) )

3 main roles = £10,000 each (learning, rehearsing, recording & royalties) if adequate soloists are signed = £30,000 total
7 major roles = £5,000 each ((learning, rehearsing, recording & royalties) = £35,000 total
4-5 minor roles = let's say £10,000 to cover this

That leaves £25,000 to pay a gigantic orchestra, and we haven't paid the conductor yet.  And all the soloists have to fly to Moscow (£400 return pp from the UK) and stay there (figure £100 per room per night at absolute minimum)  Some of the comprimario roles could probably be managed with local Russian soloists, but the target audience for such a recording will not easily tolerate non-native pronunciation.

So we've already gone through the bottom of the budget, and are looking for ways of cutting corners on soloist fees. Recordings of operas are often cross-subsidised from a theatre staging, where the larger budgets available (from high ticket prices, perhaps some state subsidies, sponsorship deals) can more easily absorb the rehearsal costs.  Few soloists will commit time to learning an extensive role which they will (in all probability) never sing again for fees much lower than those mentioned above.
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Dundonnell
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« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2016, 12:48:19 am »

I don't think that the plan is to record "Faust" in Russia, Neil. My understanding is that the vocal score is being edited before and in the hope of interesting potential soloists and that, following this, Lionel Friend would be looking to organise a performance on which a recording could be based.

However, I take your financial analysis very much on board.

It may interest those who have commented on the forthcoming recording of the Erik Chisholm Violin Concerto that the cost of this recording and release by Hyperion is being borne entirely by the Chisholm Trust and will effectively leave the trust bankrupt. Hyperion are releasing the recording but that is all.
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Dundonnell
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« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2016, 12:59:21 am »

"Faust" is scored for:

Gretchen (soprano)
Marthe (mezzo)
Faust (tenor)
Michael (tenor)
Raphael (tenor)
Valentin (baritone)
Mephistopheles (baritone)
Schueler (baritone)
Der Herr (bass)
Gabriel (bass)
Erdgeist (bass)
Böser Geist (bass)
SATB chorus
3 flutes (2 doubling piccolo), 2 oboes, cor anglais, 2 clarinets, Eb clarinet, bass clarinet, 3 bassoons (1 also contrabassoon), 6 horns , 4 trumpets, 3 trombones, tuba, euphonium, timpani, suspended cymbal, cymbals, bass drum, 3 side drums, tambour militaire, tambourine, triangle, castanets, tam-tam, wind machine, ruthe, bell in G flat, celesta, glockenspiel, xylophone, 2 harps, organ, strings.

The rough estimate from the HBS is £100,000 and as of August 15th the Society-in three and a half months- has raised just under 90% of that sum :)

So....if it does indeed cost a lot more then it looks as if nothing is beyond the capacity of the HBS members to raise the additional funding required!!
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Neil McGowan
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« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2016, 10:07:44 am »

following this, Lionel Friend would be looking to organise a performance on which a recording could be based.

A highly capable conductor.  I hope the project comes off!  As I have mentioned, I fear they will hit a budget deficit - but if the recording is made on the back of a public performance (propped up by ticket sales, some cross-subsidy of the orchestra's time and salaries from their main supporters and sponsors etc), that might ease the project back into the black again :))
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Gauk
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« Reply #41 on: August 27, 2016, 03:35:17 pm »

There does seem to be something about Havergal Brian that draws people to him,and I don't think it's just his music.

The mystique of having written the largest number of post-Beethoven symphonies (except Derek Bourgeois, who is more obscure).

The mystique of having written the monster Gothic Symphony.

The mystique of having been still composing into his 90s.

Plus the difficulty of his music. He is not an approachable composer, and appeals to those who like a challenge.
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« Reply #42 on: August 27, 2016, 03:43:56 pm »

There does seem to be something about Havergal Brian that draws people to him,and I don't think it's just his music.

The mystique of having written the largest number of post-Beethoven symphonies (except Derek Bourgeois, who is more obscure).

The mystique of having written the monster Gothic Symphony.

The mystique of having been still composing into his 90s.

Plus the difficulty of his music. He is not an approachable composer, and appeals to those who like a challenge.

Funnily enough I was having dinner last night (prior to an extraordinarily fine performance of the Bruckner Symphony No.5 at the Edinburgh Festival by the magnificent Leipzig Gewandhaus under the amazingly enegetic 89-year old Herbert Blomstedt) with the former Managing Director of the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra and we discussed this very topic.

He is not an HB fan but he identified each of the points just made above as-what are now called-USPS.
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« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2016, 12:35:15 am »

It's funny that I suppose Sullivan and Brian are my two favourite composers, so terribly different, the one about as approachable as you could wish for, and popular (in part), the other not. But I think they have a great many mutual fans.
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