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British and Irish Music


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Author Topic: British and Irish Music  (Read 19475 times)
relm1
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« Reply #435 on: September 22, 2017, 02:04:58 am »

I note relm1's comments but I remain unconvinced.

Ok, the work turns out to be longer than expected. So what? Accommodate that fact, don't cut the work, thereby imperilling its musical integrity.

And if I was Holloway I would either remove the movement as superfluous (if it actually is???) or say "no, you can reschedule it for next year and perform it in toto!".

http://www.boosey.com/cr/news/Holloway-reviews-of-Fourth-Concerto-in-San-Francisco/11438&LangID=1

I have inquired to RH of this detail and we shall see if there is further detail but as a composer myself, commissions have demands and if the demands aren't met, there are absolutely concessions met but lets see if he responds and gives his take.  I do believe MTT hated the idea of having to cut 9 minutes but lets hear from someone involved.  Removing the movement certainty doesn't imply it is superfluous but rather impractical given the other constraints.  That is my take at least.  I truly wished MTT could have included it.  But there is a point where having it would overall be detrimental.  I think of it like this.  As a commissioned composer sometimes you envision an instrument that is impractical.  Such as an organ for just a few notes.  Well, the venue doesn't allow that.  So the composer retains the intent but the instrument is omitted from the premiere performance.  The composer should not remove this instrumentation however it is not part of the premiere. 
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Greg K
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« Reply #436 on: September 23, 2017, 06:36:46 pm »

What exactly are the "constraints" and "detriment" you allude to (even if only in a speculative way)?  Could you be more clear?  Fine if we eventually "hear from someone involved", but let's discuss the possibilities while we wait for that.  You apparently have some knowledge and experience of what can occur in these circumstances.  Why not share more precisely the thing(s) you have in mind?
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relm1
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« Reply #437 on: September 24, 2017, 04:20:05 pm »

What exactly are the "constraints" and "detriment" you allude to (even if only in a speculative way)?  Could you be more clear?  Fine if we eventually "hear from someone involved", but let's discuss the possibilities while we wait for that.  You apparently have some knowledge and experience of what can occur in these circumstances.  Why not share more precisely the thing(s) you have in mind?


Well, what I meant is that in music school we were told if you have only 20 minutes to work with the orchestra and wrote a piece that would require 30 minutes to properly execute it, you failed in meeting the constraints you had.  The result is subpar or incomplete performance which does not reflect well on your intention or the quality of your work.  That is the detriment.  Perhaps the schedule would not allow all the music to be properly rehearsed so jettisoning a movement would be preferential than a disastrous complete performance.   That was what I was speculating on. 
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Dundonnell
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« Reply #438 on: September 24, 2017, 05:20:08 pm »

Holloway himself seems to indicate on his website that the "commission" (?) from Michael Tilson Thomas was for "half a concert", then whittled down to "half an hour". In rehearsal the work clocked in "at an hour and a half". In fact Holloway's publishers time the work at 75 minutes, ie an hour and a quarter!

Now....you are not telling me that an examination of the score does not rapidly convey the difference between a work lasting 30 minutes and one lasting 90 minutes Huh Roll Eyes Surely it does not need a full rehearsal to expose that very, very substantial difference Huh

The (very sad) bottom line is that the performance of the work in San Francisco was in February 2007. (Apparently there were three performances, according to Holloway's own website!). That is ten years ago!!

But I am not aware that the work has ever been performed in the UK. If it had I am sure we would have had a recording of the broadcast from one of our so-generous members! It has, as I did say earlier, never been recorded.

I do not want to be overly pessimistic (which is my habitual default position Grin) but the chances of hearing the work in full do not seem particularly bright Sad
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Hattoff
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« Reply #439 on: September 24, 2017, 06:12:29 pm »

Parry: Judith

I was stunned to find this on You Tube. It is an historical document, and performed rather well by the Corpus Christi College Choir of Toronto Canada.  On first hearing this is some of the best Parry that I've heard.

I have uploaded it here because, if it is removed from You Tube, it could be be lost forever.
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Dundonnell
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« Reply #440 on: September 25, 2017, 12:04:35 am »

Parry: Judith

I was stunned to find this on You Tube. It is an historical document, and performed rather well by the Corpus Christi College Choir of Toronto Canada.  On first hearing this is some of the best Parry that I've heard.

I have uploaded it here because, if it is removed from You Tube, it could be be lost forever.

Considering the vast amount of choral music Parry composed, including so many Oratorios and Cantatas- most of which have remained unheard since the late 19th and early 20th centuries, this is indeed a most unexpected and extremely welcome addition and I hope will be added to our Archive on here!

Thank you very much indeed Smiley
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cjvinthechair
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« Reply #441 on: September 25, 2017, 07:49:46 pm »

Parry: Judith

I was stunned to find this on You Tube. It is an historical document, and performed rather well by the Corpus Christi College Choir of Toronto Canada.  On first hearing this is some of the best Parry that I've heard.

I have uploaded it here because, if it is removed from You Tube, it could be be lost forever.

These are lovely videos on the Pax Christi site - apart from Parry, a stirring Elijah, & a fine Apostles!
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Clive
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« Reply #442 on: September 26, 2017, 12:38:58 am »

Thanks for the lead, I must confess I haven't ventured into the magnificent British choral works much, but had always known I wanted to, so this is a new and welcome push in that direction. At the risk of blasphemy I also must confess I really don't like Elgar's symphonies but I like his incidental music and the oratorios a lot, and even (maybe as a philistine blasphemist)--wait for it---Pomp and Circumstance marches!!. As to Parry I have never heard anything of his I didn't like. Always back to the "oldies" for me it seems like, try to keep up with the contemporaries but wind up going back to the 19th and early 20th centuries or Bach for the soul-soothing needs.
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Jolly Roger
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« Reply #443 on: September 26, 2017, 04:54:38 am »

Thanks for the lead, I must confess I haven't ventured into the magnificent British choral works much, but had always known I wanted to, so this is a new and welcome push in that direction. At the risk of blasphemy I also must confess I really don't like Elgar's symphonies but I like his incidental music and the oratorios a lot, and even (maybe as a philistine blasphemist)--wait for it---Pomp and Circumstance marches!!. As to Parry I have never heard anything of his I didn't like. Always back to the "oldies" for me it seems like, try to keep up with the contemporaries but wind up going back to the 19th and early 20th centuries or Bach for the soul-soothing needs.
Then you must hear Sanctus Civitas by Vaughn Williams..a marvelous work.
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jimfin
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« Reply #444 on: September 26, 2017, 10:26:12 am »

Good lord, how wonderful to find Judith here! I never thought I would hear it! And yes, a decent performance. I have loved Job for many years, and find in it much that I think Elgar learned from in his oratorios (the Lament of Job in particular reminds me of Judas in the Apostles). Now, keep an eye out for King Saul...
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shamus
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« Reply #445 on: September 26, 2017, 02:31:58 pm »

OK, JollyRoger, I am now on my way into Vaughan Williams choral land, thanks for the suggestion, best, Jim
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jimfin
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« Reply #446 on: September 26, 2017, 02:41:02 pm »

Really enjoyed Judith: maybe a bit long and rambling compared to Job, but some wonderful choruses and all very pleasant.
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cjvinthechair
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« Reply #447 on: September 26, 2017, 02:55:12 pm »

OK, JollyRoger, I am now on my way into Vaughan Williams choral land, thanks for the suggestion, best, Jim

Ah, Mr. Jim - once you find yourself ensnared by VW choral land (& the like) you may never emerge; 'Towards the Unknown Region'. 'Dona Nobis Pacem', 'Flos Campi', 'Hodie',  'In Windsor Forest'....+ a few !
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Clive
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« Reply #448 on: September 26, 2017, 03:12:13 pm »

Indeed! Hours of listening pleasure. But don't forget Holst's choral music,vocal music and parts songs,either! But,one at a time!! VW,first! Grin Smiley
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cilgwyn
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« Reply #449 on: September 26, 2017, 04:17:02 pm »

Really enjoyed Judith: maybe a bit long and rambling compared to Job, but some wonderful choruses and all very pleasant.
I'm looking forward to hearing this myself. I'll be getting some more cd-r's,first,though!
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