Russian and Soviet Music

[guest2]

Obukhov and Protopopov - delight - indeed welcome Bobyor!

[guest377]

Anatoi Alexandrov.... the Concerto-Symphony is marked as Op 102 on the LP and Op 101 on the score?  (see the score I posted).

I remember something being discussed about this on the Unsung Composers forum before they kicked me off for "not be romantic music"
but does anybody have any insight on this?  Such a lovely piece of music.  Naxos or Hyperion needs to record this again.
BTW I had some email exchanges between myself and Klaus Heymann .. he said it costs from  $8k-15k to record a symphonic work (probably depending on where you go... Uk or Ukraine)


Dave

[guest377]

note to Admin:   please move the discussion in the Download file for Russian and Soviet Music to this file... there is discussion in the last post.

[cilgwyn]

Anton Rubinstein: La Russie,morceaux symphonique

Thanks for this. Just had to download this after seeing the rave reviews at the other place! I must admit I do actually like some Rubinstein. What's wrong with a Russian composer who doesn't sound specifically Russian and who seeks his muse from German composers? It seems it's okay for Parry and Stanford and some other British composers who history has deemed of a lower rank,but not okay if you're a Russian! And if you are a Russian composer who is deemed to be of a lower order of inspiration,at least have the decency to sound like another Russian composer! IMHO Rubinstein is no worse than Parry and Stanford at their least inspired,if not better,and from what I've heard composed more interesting Piano concertos. Also,while I would hesitate to compare him with a composer as individual and of as obvious mastery as Tchaikovsky,whose music I do like;he's often allot less noisy and hectoring.

[kyjo]

Many thanks to rkhenderson for his upload of an interesting rarity, the Sokalsky symphony!

[Dundonnell]

Anton Rubinstein: La Russie,morceaux symphonique

Thanks for this. Just had to download this after seeing the rave reviews at the other place! I must admit I do actually like some Rubinstein. What's wrong with a Russian composer who doesn't sound specifically Russian and who seeks his muse from German composers? It seems it's okay for Parry and Stanford and some other British composers who history has deemed of a lower rank,but not okay if you're a Russian! And if you are a Russian composer who is deemed to be of a lower order of inspiration,at least have the decency to sound like another Russian composer! IMHO Rubinstein is no worse than Parry and Stanford at their least inspired,if not better,and from what I've heard composed more interesting Piano concertos. Also,while I would hesitate to compare him with a composer as individual and of as obvious mastery as Tchaikovsky,whose music I do like;he's often allot less noisy and hectoring.

There is nothing per se "wrong" with a Russian composer composing music which does not sound particularly "Russian". Whatever exactly that might mean is open to debate-use of Russian folk-themes ??? (I suppose one would have to ask Balakirev....and he is not answering his telephone ;D). Seriously, there is a considerable difference, I would have thought, between most of Rubinstein's symphonies (I am not qualified to speak about his operas) and those of Balakirev or Borodin or Tchaikovsky.

That does not make Rubinstein a "bad composer". Balakirev and the other members of "The Mighty Handful" sought to emphasise a more explicitly Russian idiom rather than the German influence of Mendelssohn and Schumann one can hear in Rubinstein. That lead to criticism-sometimes quite vicious-of Rubinstein.

My criticism of Rubinstein-if that is what it is-is that I simply don't find the music very memorable. I don't find it unattractive. I recognise that Rubinstein could construct a symphony. I also fully accept that others may find his music pleasant to listen to.  Excellent :) Good on you! Keep listening! I shall stick to other Russian composers but that is equally just my choice :)

[Neil McGowan]

There is nothing per se "wrong" with a Russian composer composing music which does not sound particularly "Russian". Whatever exactly that might mean is open to debate-use of Russian folk-themes ??? (I suppose one would have to ask Balakirev....and he is not answering his telephone ;D). Seriously, there is a considerable difference, I would have thought, between most of Rubinstein's symphonies (I am not qualified to speak about his operas) and those of Balakirev or Borodin or Tchaikovsky.

Unpalatable as it might be to some, we can't really 'get inside' this unless we look at the political situation in Russia at the time.

As you've rightly said, the sharp divide between Tchaikovksy (along with his somewhat reticent protector, Rubinstein) and the "Five" was drawn along politicised lines. Balakirev - perhaps motivated by his very modest abilities as a composer? - became very involved in Russian nationalist politics, and he associated with the most conservative figures of the time. He fervently believed that music 'per se' was not enough - it had to serve patriotic ends.  (Here he was following every 2nd-rater's dream - to make himself useful to the powers that be, so that he would receive 'official' commissions...  whilst those he labelled fifth-columnists would be disgraced and removed from the scene).

The first major confrontation was the premiere of Tchaikovsky's early opera THE OPRICHNIK. What did Balakirev find so offensive in it?

Some words first about the subject of this opera. The "Oprichniks" were the predecessors of the Russian secret police, and they date back to the C16th or earlier. It was the Oprichniks who carried out the insane decrees that made made Ivan IV's reign so Terrible. The most notorious was the psychopathic maniac Maliuta Skuratov - Ivan the Terrible's most murderous henchman. Yet the teaching of Russian history (which had only recently passed into academic hands, and out of the control of religious seminaries) had previously held that these men were brave and glorious patriots who were seeing off Russia's enemies. By the 1870s, a different view was forming... that the oprichniks had been criminal thugs working in the service of a Tsar who was... at best...  mentally ill. In Tchaikovsky's opera - to a libretto based on a novel by a Russian liberal named Lazhechnikov, who had died in 1869 - the oprichniks are portrayed as criminals, and not as heroes. A young man with no prospects joins them, in the hope that a successful career would make him a suitable suitor for his beloved girl. Instead, membership of the Order of Oprichniks destroys him. Criticism of Russia's feudal political system was barely concealed.

It was a red rag to a bull.  And to present this traitorous, anti-patriotic heresy in the Mariinsky Theatre - in the nation's capital of St Petersburg, in 1874, and then again in Moscow at the Bolshoi in the same year -drove Balakirev nearly insane with righteous indignation and wrath.

But it wasn't just the libretto which had the red mist forming in front of the eyes of the ultra-conservative faction. The music, and its format, came in for Balakirev's especial ire.  Most particularly because by 1874 his own musical career had collapsed entirely. His political ravings had sent him insane, and he'd spent a period in a lunatic asylum. Persistent complaints about his behaviour had caused him to be dismissed from the Free School of Music (Rimsky replaced him there), and by the time of OPRICHNIK Balakirev was working as a clerk at the Ministry of Railways - the only job he could find. And meanwhile the hated Tchaikovsky - his erstwhile friend - was getting commissions from Imperial theatres. And who was promoting the career of this Tchaikovsky?  Anton Rubinstein - a Jew. Jews held officially inferior status in Tsarist Russia, and there was even a different criminal code which applied only to them. Arrears of taxes, or even taking snuff were not criminal offences for slavic Russians - but the Penal Codex made such activities grounds for Siberian exile... for Jews.  Russian passports listed the 'nationality' of the passport holder. Russians were described as "Russian" - but Jews were listed separately as "Jews", as though they had no place in their own country of birth.

The triumphant success of the premierer of OPRICHNIK was immediate, and its composer was the toast of St Petersburg. Yet soon all kinds of anonymous letters and pamphlets appeared - chiding the public for their support of this 'disgraceful' piece. Wasn't it true that the story mocked the rule of a Russian Tsar, and held his wisdom up to question? Hadn't the music been composed in the genre of the French Grand Opera? In which all the expectations - a mezzo-soprano 'breeches role' for the hero's friend (think of HOFFMAN or FAUST), tone-poem interludes, and... ballets were dutifully included?  The musical material itself... why, dammit... it just wasn't slavic in style, feeling, or conception! And it had been promoted by Jews. The work was an affront to every right-thinking Russian!!   And of course, the anonymous author of these pamphlets and articles was a railway clerk and Russian nationalist named Mily Balakirev.

Within a week, Modeste Tchaikovsky had brought this repellent whispering campaign to his brother's attention - initially as a joke. But Piotr Tchaikovksy was, in his way, a devout patriot too...  and he was horrifically offended by what he read. He took the stinging criticism bitterly to heart.  Within two weeks, he had fallen into a deep depression, and became convinced he'd produced a monster.  Within months, he was petitioning the Bolshoi Theatre to strike the piece from their repertoire (they didn't). When this failed, he went to his publisher Jurgenson, and asked Jurgenson to destroy the copperplates of the score and parts. 

For most of his future theatrical works, Tchaikovsky was careful to use story material only from Russian writers whose works were taught in every school in Russia - primarily Pushkin. He worked 'slavic' themes into his works. He re-used old Russian romances (notably in The Queen Of Spades) to assert his patriotic stand.

But the nationalists had won - and it wasn't going to end there.

[guest224]

Many thanks to rkhenderson for his upload of an interesting rarity, the Sokalsky symphony!

Damn it, was beaten to the mark!  I ordered this LP at huge price via an ebay dealer and it arrived yesterday, and was so looking forward to making a contribution to this site(((


 :D

[Dundonnell]

Many, many thanks to Neil for his extremely interesting and detailed account of the historical/political background to the musical situation in Russia in 1874 :)

The more I read about Anton Rubinstein's career and, specifically, the reasons behind his resignation as Director of the St. Petersburg Conservatory in 1867 and again in 1891 (the latter leading to his self-imposed exile from Russia until shortly before his death in 1894) the greater the sympathy I have for him.

The whole sad and sorry saga-so well-described by Neil-points out the importance and indeed necessity to understand this sort of cultural background within which composers worked. Rubinstein was an important figure in 19th century Russian music (for a number of different reasons). I don't happen to think that he was a great symphonist....but ultimately his claims to be remembered do not depend on that :)

[cilgwyn]

Anton Rubinstein: La Russie,morceaux symphonique

Thanks for this. Just had to download this after seeing the rave reviews at the other place! I must admit I do actually like some Rubinstein. What's wrong with a Russian composer who doesn't sound specifically Russian and who seeks his muse from German composers? It seems it's okay for Parry and Stanford and some other British composers who history has deemed of a lower rank,but not okay if you're a Russian! And if you are a Russian composer who is deemed to be of a lower order of inspiration,at least have the decency to sound like another Russian composer! IMHO Rubinstein is no worse than Parry and Stanford at their least inspired,if not better,and from what I've heard composed more interesting Piano concertos. Also,while I would hesitate to compare him with a composer as individual and of as obvious mastery as Tchaikovsky,whose music I do like;he's often allot less noisy and hectoring.

There is nothing per se "wrong" with a Russian composer composing music which does not sound particularly "Russian". Whatever exactly that might mean is open to debate-use of Russian folk-themes ??? (I suppose one would have to ask Balakirev....and he is not answering his telephone ;D). Seriously, there is a considerable difference, I would have thought, between most of Rubinstein's symphonies (I am not qualified to speak about his operas) and those of Balakirev or Borodin or Tchaikovsky.

That does not make Rubinstein a "bad composer". Balakirev and the other members of "The Mighty Handful" sought to emphasise a more explicitly Russian idiom rather than the German influence of Mendelssohn and Schumann one can hear in Rubinstein. That lead to criticism-sometimes quite vicious-of Rubinstein.

My criticism of Rubinstein-if that is what it is-is that I simply don't find the music very memorable. I don't find it unattractive. I recognise that Rubinstein could construct a symphony. I also fully accept that others may find his music pleasant to listen to.  Excellent :) Good on you! Keep listening! I shall stick to other Russian composers but that is equally just my choice :)

Thank you Dundonnell,I will! ;D Someone's got to stick up for him (or his ghost,anyway)! (Now he's got about two fans!!) I've certainly heard worse (and allot better! ;D). Judging by No5,he might have benefited from being more consciously Russian,more often. But it's too late now. For my money anyway,IMO his symphonies are preferable to Stanford at his weakest;No's 1 & 2 (though,perhaps they don't count) and No7 (talk about looking back!!) Let's face it Stanford's under the influence of various foreign composers in most of his music,although,unlike,Rubinstein,he was presumably trying to escape from that! And then there's the case of Granville Bantock;not exactly the most forward looking composer! Okay,we might have a high opinion of Bantock here;but allot of critics would say the same things about him as we're saying about Rubinstein! (Not saying I agree with them) Let me see? Bits of Wagner,Strauss,Liszt and Scotch mist (or heather?),amongst other choice morsels,I've encountered!! And we're talking about music composed in the 30s and 40s!  Of course,we all know here that Bantock is a much finer and more original composer than Rubinstein,and it's alright for him to look backwards and not assimilate his influences quite as successfully as Elgar and Vaughan Williams!

And yes,I DO prefer Parry,Stanford,Bantock....(and Tchaikovsky ;D ) to Rubinstein!  I'm just making a point!
I have to say,some of the recordings of Rubinstein's music probably don't help (the Piano concertos aside). And if only they had invented recording technology a little earlier. If we could hear him playing we might have a higher opinion. Well,of his playing,anyway! ::) ;D

Typing all this,I can't help thinking of Arthur Rubinstein with a wry grin! ;D

[guest224]

VLADMIR SOKALSKY
(1863-1919, UKRAINE)

Symphony in G minor (1892)
I. Allegro
II. Presto giocoso - Scherzo
III. Andante
IV. Vivace (Kazachok)

Natan Rakhlin/Ukrainian State Symphony Orchestra
MELODIYA 33ND-03696-7 (LP) (1957)

https://musicforeveryone.createaforum.com/downloads/volodymyr-sokalsky-(1863-1919-ukraine)-symphony-in-g-minor/msg507/#msg507

Thank you very much for this!   Do you by any chance have the cover and the back notes?  The copy that I just bought off ebay (see above....!) unfortunately came without...

[guest377]

Many, many thanks to Neil for his extremely interesting and detailed account of the historical/political background to the musical situation in Russia in 1874 :)

The more I read about Anton Rubinstein's career and, specifically, the reasons behind his resignation as Director of the St. Petersburg Conservatory in 1867 and again in 1891 (the latter leading to his self-imposed exile from Russia until shortly before his death in 1894) the greater the sympathy I have for him.

The whole sad and sorry saga-so well-described by Neil-points out the importance and indeed necessity to understand this sort of cultural background within which composers worked. Rubinstein was an important figure in 19th century Russian music (for a number of different reasons). I don't happen to think that he was a great symphonist....but ultimately his claims to be remembered do not depend on that :)

I second that !!  Thanks Neil for your insight... I seem to remember reading about all of this years ago... the conflict between the Rubinstein-Tchaikovsky faction and the Nationalist faction.

[jowcol]

Boris Terentiev: Symphony 1


I have been able to find out very little about Terentiev, other than enough to think
he was known primarily being a writer of songs.

From the collection of Karl Miller

Symphony 1
Latvian State SO/Vasili Smalsky

[guest377]

Boris Terentiev: Symphony 1


I have been able to find out very little about Terentiev, other than enough to think
he was known primarily being a writer of songs.  I'm assuming this recording was a 78?   also the label is pre-Melodiya

From the collection of Karl Miller

Symphony 1
Latvian State SO/Vasili Smalsky

Boris Terentiev   Grad from the Kiev Conservatory in 1931 and 1937 from the Moscow Conservatory. Studied with Gliere and Litinsky  Sym No 1 dated 1937 no 2 1987.  Born 1913 Odessa Ukraine.

[guest377]

by the way... who is Karl Miller?