Russian and Soviet Music

[guest224]

I stand corrected. The use of the term "The Ukraine" ceased when the republic ceased to be a constituent part of the USSR in 1991.

It's way way more complicated than that!  Neil? Anyone? Care to explain?  I'm too tired!   :D

[guest224]

Yevgeni Stankovich(1942-):
Symphony No.6 "Dictum" for small orchestra(1987):
National Symphony Orchestra of the Ukraine(Volodymyr Sirenko)

Thanks, Colin, for uploading this!

The composer's name is more correctly transliterated as Yevhen Stankovych. During the years of the USSR, the Russian-speaking majority "Russified" all manner of names, places, etc., in the various constituent "republics." Some examples: in Latvia, "Kalnins" became Kalnin or Kalnyn. In Belarus, "Hlebau" became Glebov. In Azerbaijan "Hajibeyov" became Gadzhibekov. And on and on... What many folks don't realize is that when names such as these were transliterated into Russian, all too often these names were then further transliterated into English from the Russian, rather than going back to the original languages (Ukrainian, Latvian, etc.).

Anyway, I don't raise this issue to be petty or anal, and I don't fault you, Colin, or anyone else on this board. Goodness knows, it's taken me a while to catch on to some misspellings (or mistranslations, or mistransliterations, whatever the case may be) as well. I just feel the need to raise this issue periodically to keep everyone aware of the pitfalls of USSR-era nomenclature.

As an example of how this can cause confusion see my note in the thread http://artmusic.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,1593.0.html  about the composer Belarusian composer Zalatarou (Belarusian transliteration) Zolotarev (Russian transliteration).

[guest224]

Yevgeni Stankovich(1942-):
Symphony No.6 "Dictum" for small orchestra(1987):
National Symphony Orchestra of the Ukraine(Volodymyr Sirenko)

Thanks, Colin, for uploading this!

The composer's name is more correctly transliterated as Yevhen Stankovych. During the years of the USSR, the Russian-speaking majority "Russified" all manner of names, places, etc., in the various constituent "republics." Some examples: in Latvia, "Kalnins" became Kalnin or Kalnyn. In Belarus, "Hlebau" became Glebov. In Azerbaijan "Hajibeyov" became Gadzhibekov. And on and on... What many folks don't realize is that when names such as these were transliterated into Russian, all too often these names were then further transliterated into English from the Russian, rather than going back to the original languages (Ukrainian, Latvian, etc.).

Anyway, I don't raise this issue to be petty or anal, and I don't fault you, Colin, or anyone else on this board. Goodness knows, it's taken me a while to catch on to some misspellings (or mistranslations, or mistransliterations, whatever the case may be) as well. I just feel the need to raise this issue periodically to keep everyone aware of the pitfalls of USSR-era nomenclature.

I have a suggestion: when discussing a composer (or uploading his music) from a country that has a different alphabet, members should be encouraged to put both the standard (from Russian) transliteration of their name, and any other version of their name if the composer
is, say, Ukrainian/Belarusian/Armenian/Georgian etc. And maybe also copy in the Cyrillic version(s) - easy to do from Wikipedia.

One advantage of this is that it could draw in like-minded enthusiasts from Russia/Ukraine etc, if they have done a google search for Glebov/Hlebau they will come across our site.  Such users may know of all sorts of sources for information on, and recordings of, our beloved lesser known composers.

So, for example, if I was to upload a piece by the Belarusian composer Glebov, I might label it in the following way:

Glebov, Evgeniy Alexandrovich (transliteration from Russian)
Глебов, Евгеений Алексаандрович (Russian)
Hlebau, Yauhen Alyaksandravich (transliteration from Belarussian)
Глебаў, Яўген Аляксандравіч (Belarusian)

[Dundonnell]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18233844

http://www.infoukes.com/faq/the_ukraine/

[guest224]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18233844

http://www.infoukes.com/faq/the_ukraine/

Those partially address the issue. There is also the point that, in Russian, when they want to say "in" (eg: "in France") they use the word "v" - this applies to all countries except Ukraine, for which they use another word "na".  This has the effect of implying that Ukraine is not a country but a borderland (the Russian word "krai" means edge or borderland, so to say "na Ukraine" implies "at the edge" or "at the border area"). Russians sensitive to Ukrainian sensibilities now say "v Ukraine".   So in English to say "The Ukraine" is taken as analogous to that way of thinking.  It is also analogous to those (Brits) who still say "The Sudan" or pronounce Kenya as "Keenya"!

(It way well be the case that the name Ukraine arose from the word for borderland or edge. So what? That doesn't mean a whole culture or nation can't arise.  There is a theory that the name England has a similar history - Eng- from Angle, angle meaning corner or edge - the English were the people on the edge of Europe - but no one's going to tell me the English aren't a nation!)

[guest145]

Those partially address the issue. There is also the point that, in Russian, when they want to say "in" (eg: "in France") they use the word "v" - this applies to all countries except Ukraine, for which they use another word "na".  This has the effect of implying that Ukraine is not a country but a borderland (the Russian word "krai" means edge or borderland). Russians sensitive to Ukrainian sensibilities now say "v Ukraine".   So in English to say "The Ukraine" is taken as analogous to that way of thinking.

A very important issue to keep in mind in all of this discussion is that in the former USSR, the various constituent "republics" were looked upon as an integral part of the country, despite exploiting their national characteristics when it suited the government, to give the illusion of multicultural freedom. Linguistically denying the validity of a country's or region's uniqueness, and therefore aspirations to independence, was just another subtle way of changing people's perceptions.

In my previous discussion, the Russification of names is just another aspect of this practice.

[Dundonnell]

Thank you for the Peiko Symphony No.5, Holger :)

Hopefully you can add the Sixth when you have time :)

[kyjo]

Thank you for the Peiko Symphony No.5, Holger :)

Hopefully you can add the Sixth when you have time :)

Heartily seconded :) Peiko is one of the most underrated Soviet composers IMO.

[guest140]

I am looking for a recording of teh work "Constanti" (or "Constants") by Leonid Hrabovsky (or Grabovsky) and found the following Ukrainian website that contains a huge compilation of chamber and orchestral music of him (and also the Constanti). I tried to register there to download, but for verification the site asks for "letters in a picture" (that did not show up on my computer) and the second letter of the Ukrainian alphabet (???). And maybe its all fake, so does anyone of you can register (or has the balls to register) and download?

Here's the link:

http://toloka.hurtom.com/viewtopic.php?t=20242

Best,
Tobias

[Neil McGowan]

Hello!

I had a quick look at the 'registration' page of this (very promising-looking!) Ukrainian website. I am not a Ukrainian speaker, but I speak pretty fluent Russian, and the differences - especially in the vocabulary of computer-sites, which is all new anyhow - are not too great :)

OK, if you go to the Registration page (you reach it by clicking "зарееструватися" on the topmost ribbon, it's the last-but-one command on that bar from the right)

The entry fields to register are as follows:

(top)
Login
E-mail (marked in English!)
password (ie you have to create one)
repeat the password
enter the numbers you see on the picture (nb there are only numbers, no Ukrainian letters!)
What is the second letter of the Ukrainian Alphabet?  (the answer is б - you can cut-paste it from here!)  (nb that's not the number six, but a Ukrainian letter 'b')

[guest145]

I tried a variety of passwords but it wouldn't accept any of them. Any thoughts?

[guest140]

I already received the file, so you don't have to download the files for me anymore. Just to say that.

Best,
Tobias

[fr8nks]

I was able to register without any problems. I chose a password that was six letters long without any capitals. Haven't tried to perform any searches yet but when I log in I see my user name.

[Elroel]

Tried several times. But it did not work.
Followed Neil's advice, but that didn't do.

I gave up

[guest145]

I did succeed in registering, following Fr8nk's advice, but so far I haven't found anything of interest -- all pop music so far. Can anyone suggest a way to zero in on the meatier stuff?