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Alphabetization of music catalog


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Author Topic: Alphabetization of music catalog  (Read 393 times)
shamus
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« on: April 24, 2015, 04:22:14 pm »

I am an American, here we usually alphabetize names by the last name, even if the middle name sounds like a surname. However when trying to organize my collection from all over the world, I get stumped sometimes.
At the risk of hoots of my being a tight-assed pedantic, I still would like to know how people in other countries alphabetize their surnames, as if in a can't-tell-you book.(some will say, what is a can't-tell-you book?)
I think with so many of you on this forum from so many different countries, as well as so many polyglots that this might help me learn how to arrange my music catalog.

 I have particularly questions about how to alphabetize names from countries such as Netherlands, Belgium where many names are preceded by "van" or "de", such as Van Hoof, De Vries, etc. Should the names be "de Raaff, Robin" or "Raaff, Robin de", or "van Hove, Luc", or Hove, Luc van"?

It appears that in German the "von" is included after the given name, such as "Beethoven, Ludwig von" but I am not sure.

In Italian names often have "di" or "de"  or "Della" before what is clearly a patronymic, such as de Assis, di Vittoria, etc., so would the entry be "de Assis, Paulo" or "Assis, Paulo de" etc.

In Spanish I know that most names list after the given name a patronymic and then a matronymic, such as Anton García Abril, which I would put as "Garcia Abril, Antón". But what about Luis de Pablo, do I put him in the "D's" or the "P's"?

I am not sure about Portuguese/Brazilian names that sometimes seem to contain two surnames, such as Paulo Costa Lima--"Costa Lima, Paulo"? or Lima, Paulo Costa.

And most perplexing may be British names, where Vaughan Williams is in the "V's, but is H. Balfour Gardiner in the "B's" or the "G's"?

It appears Japanese names are often pretty straightforward, but in Chinese a name such as Tan Dun, or Gao Ping, but should be written that way, rather than Tan, Dun, or Gao, Ping?

Hungarians always say last names first then given names in their speech, so that is easy to figure out.

So if anyone can help me get my pedantic panties unwadded, I would greatly appreciate it.  Wink
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Wheesht
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« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2015, 04:57:10 pm »

I'm not sure if this helps, but it might be worth looking at how musicbrainz organises data:
http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Classical/Recording/Artist I know they have contributors from all over the world, and apparently they can go into lengthy discussions about the correct way of spelling names.

German names preceeded by "von" are indeed alphabetised with the name first and then the "von" as in "Fischer, Emma von". In the case of Beethoven the principle is the same, but with "van" rather than "von". 
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shamus
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« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2015, 05:09:58 pm »

Thanks Wheesht, but I don't know why telephone book came out as--can't-tell-you--are they now subservise??? Will check it out. Best
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Gauk
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« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2015, 11:22:33 pm »

There seems to be little agreement if Havergal Brian goes under H or B ...
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Dimana
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« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2015, 06:05:42 pm »

There seems to be little agreement if Havergal Brian goes under H or B ...

I don't see the problem.  The family name is Brian and "Havergal" was simply a new first name he adopted instead of his christened William.  Thus, file under B.
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guest54
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« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2015, 06:17:43 am »

. . .  I have particularly questions about how to alphabetize names from countries such as Netherlands, Belgium where many names are preceded by "van" or "de", such as Van Hoof, De Vries, etc. Should the names be "de Raaff, Robin" or "Raaff, Robin de", or "van Hove, Luc", or Hove, Luc van"?

It appears that in German the "von" is included after the given name, such as "Beethoven, Ludwig von" but I am not sure.

In Italian names often have "di" or "de"  or "Della" before what is clearly a patronymic, such as de Assis, di Vittoria, etc., so would the entry be "de Assis, Paulo" or "Assis, Paulo de" etc.

In Spanish I know that most names list after the given name a patronymic and then a matronymic, such as Anton García Abril, which I would put as "Garcia Abril, Antón". But what about Luis de Pablo, do I put him in the "D's" or the "P's"?

I am not sure about Portuguese/Brazilian names that sometimes seem to contain two surnames, such as Paulo Costa Lima--"Costa Lima, Paulo"? or Lima, Paulo Costa.

And most perplexing may be British names, where Vaughan Williams is in the "V's, but is H. Balfour Gardiner in the "B's" or the "G's"? . . .

You could do what Grove's Dictionary does, and have two (or even more) separate entries:

"D'Indy, Vincent: See Indy, Vincent d' "

and

"Indy, Vincent d' . . . " with full details.

But Grove's is not consistent in its choice of which one - the one starting with de or the one not - will be the major entry.

Hart's Rules for Compositors has a long section about French, but oddly enough it doesn't tackle this question.


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Gauk
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« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2015, 05:07:29 pm »

There seems to be little agreement if Havergal Brian goes under H or B ...

I don't see the problem.  The family name is Brian and "Havergal" was simply a new first name he adopted instead of his christened William.  Thus, file under B.

The problem is that "Havergal" is not obviously a first name.
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Latvian
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« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2015, 06:47:13 pm »

Typically, when surnames have prefixes, I alphabetize under the surname, e.g. :
Raaff, Robin de
Indy, Vincent d'
Einem, Gottfried von
Hemel, Oscan van

However, on the subject of what constitutes a double surname or middle name and surname, often research is required to determine what the case is. The deciding factor is typically how the composer him/herself uses it.
 
Vaughan is NOT Ralph Vaughan Williams' middle name -- Vaughan Williams is his surname. But there are other British names where this is not the case.

Many late 19th Century American composers have middle names that can easily be mistaken for last names (a la Vaughan Williams) but are indeed middle names, e.g.:
Edward Burlingame Hill
George Whitefield Chadwick
Frederick Shepherd Converse
John Knowles Paine

Some annotators insert gratuitous hyphens where none exist, e.g. Vaughan-Williams. On the other hand, some names are legitimately hyphenated: e.g.:
Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov
Heitor Villa-Lobos

For female composers, some choose to keep their maiden name and add their husband's last name, e.g.
Judith Lang Zaimont
Ellen Taaffe Zwilich

Whether they want to consider it a double surname or use their husband's last name as their sole surname seems to be a matter of preference, however, and requires research.

Then, we enter into the subject of pseudonyms, e.g.:
Mana-Zucca (Augusta Zuckermann)

For Chinese composers, name order can be very inconsistently listed and difficult to determine what actually constitutes a surname.

Most Spanish and Latin American composers have double surnames, though both are not always used, e.g.:
Manuel Palau is actually Manuel Palau Boix.

In conclusion, striving for accuracy in alphabetizing composers' names can be a real minefield, and ultimately requires sustained research and investigation. There are many, many other little issues in addition to the major points I've addressed above. For someone compiling a quick and dirty listing for personal convenience, it really doesn't matter much how you assemble it. Putting together a listing for public dissemination and reference, however, does require more detailed attention and accuracy.
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Elroel
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« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2015, 07:22:04 pm »

As for Chinese names, almost always the short name is the surname.
I use in my listings an extra comma after this surname.

Chen Yi - surname Chen. I list as Chen, Yi.
------------
Prefixes: here I use the way it is done in the country he/she comes from.
Jan de Jong (Firstname-prefix-surname) from the Netherlands becomes Jong, Jan de. When he is a Belgian I use De Jong, Jan. For an American I right here De Jong, Jan. One of my cousins in the US is actually named so.
He uses himself DeJong, Jan. [prefix and surname in one].

Like Latvian wrote there are many possibilities. Even more so when the original name comes from a non-western language.

 
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