Opinions of Malipiero

[chill319]

What think ye, good scholars, of Malipiero's 17 or so sinfonias (some numbered, some not)? Would you favour them over Casella's symphonies? Over Vagn Holmboe's symphonies?  I'm trying to prioritize the deployment of somewhat limited funds here...

Edit: corrected the spelling mistakes in the thread title and elsewhere.

[Dundonnell]

Hard to answer a question like this when so much depends on personal taste.

In my opinion-for what it is worth-Holmboe's thirteen numbered symphonies (he also wrote three Chamber Symphonies and four numbered Sinfonias plus the Sinfonia in Memoriam which is a symphony in all but name!) rank amongst the finest of all 20th century symphonies. The BIS set is superbly conducted by Owain Arwel Hughes, very well played and very well recorded.

Casella wrote only three symphonies. Nos. 1 and 2 are very early works heavily influenced by Russian music pre-1914 whilst No.3 dates from 1939-40 and is a more mature composition. All three are available in cheap but thoroughly acceptable versions from Naxos whilst Nos. 2 and 3 are also on Chandos discs.

The Malipiero seventeen-you are correct, eleven numbered plus another six with descriptive titles-are a very mixed bunch. Consistently interesting but the later symphonies are rather elliptical. The Marco Polo/Naxos versions are not completely satisfactory. The performances are not as bad as sometimes described but the Moscow Symphony Orchestra struggle at times with the demands imposed upon them (however gallantly the late Antonio de Almeida tried). Nor are the recordings top-notch-though they are acceptable.

The purchase of the entire Malipiero from Naxos may be actually cheaper than the full-price Holmboe/BIS but I personally would invest in Holmboe before Malipiero. The Dane was a great composer-one of the finest of the 20th century. Malipiero is not his match as a symphonist although the Italian is certainly very well worth investigating. He may turn out to be to your liking ;D

[ahinton]

What think ye, good scolars, of Malapiero's 17 or so sinfonias (some numbered, some not)? Would you favour them over Cassella's symphonies? Over Vagn Holmboe's symphonies?  I'm trying to prioritize the deployment of somewhat limited funds here...

My opinion is that he deserves at least to be spelt correctly as Malipiero, just as the other Italian deserves to be spelt Casella. Apologies for the pedantry!

[Toby Esterhase]

What think ye, good scolars, of Malapiero's 17 or so sinfonias (some numbered, some not)? Would you favour them over Cassella's symphonies? Over Vagn Holmboe's symphonies?  I'm trying to prioritize the deployment of somewhat limited funds here...

My opinion is that he deserves at least to be spelt correctly as Malipiero, just as the other Italian deserves to be spelt Casella. Apologies for the pedantry!

Dear Ahinton
Malipiero is written correctly.This composer isn't perticularly played or remembered today.But here all 900's is Tabu.


https://books.google.it/books?id=M_HIAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT55&lpg=PT55&dq=nicola+piovani+sulla+musica+contemporanea&source=bl&ots=OwyEXL45ya&sig=f5c-AQyoTEx4ILa431-avpYmliA&hl=it&sa=X&ei=C1IdVazLEcTjU9TlgcgI&ved=0CDwQ6AEwCDgK#v=onepage&q=nicola%20piovani%20sulla%20musica%20contemporanea&f=false
Best

[ahinton]

What think ye, good scolars, of Malapiero's 17 or so sinfonias (some numbered, some not)? Would you favour them over Cassella's symphonies? Over Vagn Holmboe's symphonies?  I'm trying to prioritize the deployment of somewhat limited funds here...

My opinion is that he deserves at least to be spelt correctly as Malipiero, just as the other Italian deserves to be spelt Casella. Apologies for the pedantry!

Dear Ahinton
Malipiero is written correctly.

Not by the OP, he isn't!

This composer isn't perticularly played or remembered today.

Indeed he isn't - not just particularly, in fact, but hardly at all, even in his native Italy!

[Jolly Roger]

What think ye, good scolars, of Malapiero's 17 or so sinfonias (some numbered, some not)? Would you favour them over Cassella's symphonies? Over Vagn Holmboe's symphonies?  I'm trying to prioritize the deployment of somewhat limited funds here...

My opinion is that he deserves at least to be spelt correctly as Malipiero, just as the other Italian deserves to be spelt Casella. Apologies for the pedantry!

SPELT?? REALLY?? OR DO YOU MEAN DONE SPELT?

[Jolly Roger]

To get back on the subject of this thread:
I have purchased both the Holmboe and Malipiero symphonic cycles..
To be truthful, some of the Holmboe is less inspired than others, but 3 or 4 that are good are wonderful..no 6 comes to mind
Recognizing that it may just be personal taste, I find nearly all of the Malipiero I have to be very worthwhile despite the C+ reviews.
The Casella Symphonies are also good, all 3 should be heard at least once..

[chill319]

Thank you all for the necessary spelling corrections and for the thoughtful assessments. Naturally, the personal taste of one cannot be a predictor for another. Still, among the things I like a lot about this forum is how closely my experience of some music matches experiences described by others. A true community. Experienced listeners know that there is no black-and-white answer, and I didn't expect one. Your responses have been most helpful.

[guest145]

Malipiero... Holmboe... Casella... all these composers deserve to be heard, as well as many, many others. Personal taste is very much the issue here. All three of these composers have a great deal of substance and all had something to say. How we as listeners hear what they are saying depends very much on our tastes, our experience, our preferences and our prejudices. All of these composers were treated as second-tier at best by the musical establishment -- none were staples on New York Philharmonic programs or the like. However, their reputations have grown greatly, at least among enlightened listeners like ourselves.  ;)

Personally, my preference is for Holmboe. For decades, his Eighth Symphony has been among my very favorite works of music, and I hold various other works of his in high regard. I've only become familiar with most of Casella's works during the past few years and I find them very impressive, engaging, and worthwhile, if not always memorable. I'm much less familiar with Malipiero's music but look forward to getting to know it better in the future. I believe he's a significant voice and worth exploring further, based on what I've heard. I just don't feel I've been ready to appreciate his music until now. I feel this is the case with a number of composers. You need to hear and become familiar with certain other composers music and styles and forms of expression before you can appreciate someone like Malipiero. Perhaps this is a roundabout way of suggesting that Malipiero is an acquired taste, someone who appeals only with some effort. However, such effort can often be very rewarding and worth the patience. I'd suggest that Max Reger is another such name.

Anyway, it's interesting that Holmboe's and Casella's names were invoked initially for comparison in this discussion, as I don't believe either of them really bears much similarity to Malipiero. If we're comparing him to others with significant, largely unknown symphonic cycles, we could just as well talk about Hilding Roenberg, Jean Rivier, Jan Hanus, Daniel Jones, Pal Kadosa, Stjepan Sulek, and many, many others.

[Jolly Roger]

Thank you all for the necessary spelling corrections and for the thoughtful assessments. Naturally, the personal taste of one cannot be a predictor for another. Still, among the things I like a lot about this forum is how closely my experience of some music matches experiences described by others. A true community. Experienced listeners know that there is no black-and-white answer, and I didn't expect one. Your responses have been most helpful.

A further suggeston is that you listen to the works in which you have an interest, most of which can at least be heard on Utube.
The audio may be diluted, but it should give you an idea of what would be preferable for you..

[chill319]

Yes, Youtube isn't just for Svendsen anymore.  ;) An excellent suggestion, Jolly Roger.

Latvian, your shared experience and insight is much appreciated.

About 80 years ago, Bax, while trying to cajole a conductor into playing one of his earlier pieces, said that he understood that there was a surfeit of good orchestral music available to play. All the more so now.

When I think of my journey into Bax's music over the past four decades, I realize I can never do justice to the number of wonderful, formally fascinating and also soul-wrenching works by many many composers that have been imagined, hewn, and realized over the past century or so. I am reminded of Howard Hanson barely sleeping his last years in order to listen fervently to as much music as possible. In my case, coming to the end of disposable income, I cast about to find the very best of what I have missed with the (perhaps foolish) certitude that, despite taste, some music digs deeper and unfolds more truly than other music. But if that's what I'm after, I know it will take much intensive listening to unlock the best secrets of that music, to find the ways its patterns conform to and yet hopefully show something that transcends the patterns in my quotidian grind. Or, alternatively, show me patterns that get down to grown-up business and eschew fairy tales (as Tubin's Fifth does for me). With limited time left to listen, I cannot cast the net wide. Based on responses here, I am prioritizing Holmboe. Thanks again.

[Gauk]

While taste may be a personal thing, Holmboe's music possesses much more popular appeal. Anyone who likes Nielsen, for instance, will be right at home with Holmboe. Malipiero is very much more urbane and intellectual, and won't have an audience jumping to its feet.

I have recently been finding that Spotify is a surprisingly useful resource for lesser-known composers. Most of Malipiero's symphonies are there. I plug my laptop into the hifi, and the result is very good.

[Jolly Roger]

While taste may be a personal thing, Holmboe's music possesses much more popular appeal. Anyone who likes Nielsen, for instance, will be right at home with Holmboe. Malipiero is very much more urbane and intellectual, and won't have an audience jumping to its feet.

I have recently been finding that Spotify is a surprisingly useful resource for lesser-known composers. Most of Malipiero's symphonies are there. I plug my laptop into the hifi, and the result is very good.

That is a great way to describe the different styles, most of Malipieros symphonies are also on utube.
 https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=malipiero+sinfonia
What makes his music even more difficult to reccomend is the gradual change from lyrical and melodic to a bitter, caustic neoclassical style as he felt his lyrical style had become out of favor with the public
The difference between Symphonies 1,2 and 3 and 8,9.10 are quite contrasting. In my opinion, this makes a consistent reading of his symphonies quite impossible, but the music quite intriguing