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Brief? - Not on your nelly!

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Author Topic: Brief? - Not on your nelly!  (Read 1094 times)
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guest54
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« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2012, 10:04:43 am »

Marvellous stuff Mr. H - thank you!

I did as you suggested have a look at the notes to the Fifth Symphony - incidentally they contain an excellent photo-graph of the composer by Mr. Spencer-Bentley, the best I have seen. Your response here, together with those very extensive expository notes written by an anonymous author, contain much of interest, and have resolved most of the questions that occupied my mind.

But I must investigate Bernhard Ziehn and his "new polyphony" as soon as I can!

One observation caught my eye: Sorabji "loathed meanness and lack of generosity" when it came to composition. It leads me to wonder what Sorabji thought - if anything - about the symphonies of Brahms, in which so much interrelated material is compressed into just a few minutes per movement? (This contrasts does it not with so many - indeed most - more recent modernistical symphonies which are the same length as Brahms's but not nearly so "meaty" - for instance those in the Czech section of the Unsung forum.) I may have raised this point about Brahms with you before, and if so I apologize.

And since you mention them I have looked at the score of Sorabji's Fourth Symphony Sonata to find the composer's introductory notes. I cannot remember where it came from, but it was probably from one of those "Web-logs" of which so many were recommended on the old R3ok, in the days before they turned to cats and trivia exclusively. I was disappointed though because all I found was a foot-note at one point saying "See Critical Notes." But the Critical Notes themselves were nowhere to be seen.

It appears on closer inspection to be the "2004 Simon J. Abrahams" edition so perhaps I should now file it away and not look at it again for fifty years. The 1930 edition of the Opus Clavicembalisticum has a more elaborate title-page: it is dedicated "to my two friends (e duobus unum) Hugh M'Diarmid and C.M. Grieve, likewise to the everlasting glory of those few men blessed and sanctified in the curses and execrations of those many whose praise is eternal damnation." I wonder whom he had in mind, and what they did to deserve that . . . ? If it is no more than the same old point about how the majority of the race are no more than apes and puppets, that hardly merits such strong language does it.

Anyway, after reading all those explanations I now have the feeling that this Fifth Symphony might be one of Sorabji's most characteristic and mature works, and well worth the getting to know.

The clever "Donna" lady may actually be seen performing a complete Tveitt concerto on the "Your-Tube":






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ahinton
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« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2012, 11:44:54 am »

I did as you suggested have a look at the notes to the Fifth Symphony - incidentally they contain an excellent photo-graph of the composer by Mr. Spencer-Bentley, the best I have seen. Your response here, together with those very extensive expository notes written by an anonymous author, contain much of interest, and have resolved most of the questions that occupied my mind.
You're welcome. The unhyphenated photograph  by the of necessity hyphenated Mr Spencer Bentley is one of a series of the composer that the photographer took when the composer was almost 96 and, as far as I know, these are the last ones ever taken of him.

One observation caught my eye: Sorabji "loathed meanness and lack of generosity" when it came to composition. It leads me to wonder what Sorabji thought - if anything - about the symphonies of Brahms, in which so much interrelated material is compressed into just a few minutes per movement? (This contrasts does it not with so many - indeed most - more recent modernistical symphonies which are the same length as Brahms's but not nearly so "meaty"
Sorabji was no great admirer of Brahms, though almost certainly more as a consequence of personal temperamental antipathy than of disrespect; he did, however, think highly of the Fourth Symphony, as well he might.

And since you mention them I have looked at the score of Sorabji's Fourth Symphony to find the composer's notes. I cannot remember where it came from...
...I was disappointed though because all I found was a foot-note at one point saying "See Critical Notes." But the Critical Notes themselves were nowhere to be seen.
I do not know if you are referring to the ms. or the typeset edition but I believe that you are referring to Sorabji's Fourth Piano Sonata, not his Fourth Piano Symphony. Sadly, Mr Abrahams has not yet gotten around to preparing his critical notes.

It appears on closer inspection to be the "2004 Simon J. Abrahams" edition so perhaps I should now file it away and not look at it again for fifty years.
OK. I have no idea where you would have sourced this, but I certainly hope that you won't file it away for half a century.
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guest54
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« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2012, 12:32:19 pm »

. . . I believe that you are referring to Sorabji's Fourth Piano Sonata, not his Fourth Piano Symphony. . .

Yes - sorry - I was looking at the score of the Fourth Sonata. Now corrected.

I am not a "Your-Tube" addict - I seldom visit that site, and in fact this thread is the first to which I have ever contributed such links. But I have just now found a very good one, of "Donna" again, playing one movement (a beautiful Adagio) from the work in question here: the Fifth Symphony. Highly recommended!


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« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2012, 01:16:49 pm »

. . . I believe that you are referring to Sorabji's Fourth Piano Sonata, not his Fourth Piano Symphony. . .

Yes - sorry - I was looking at the score of the Fourth Sonata. Now corrected.

I am not a "Your-Tube" addict - I seldom visit that site, and in fact this thread is the first to which I have ever contributed such links. But I have just now found a very good one, of "Donna" again, playing one movement (a beautiful Adagio) from the work in question here: the Fifth Symphony. Highly recommended!

Indeed so - especially if it encourages listeners to purchase the entire recording, which is equally recommended (not to mention the score in Mr Abrahams' edition) - but do please, please dispense with the " " around the pianist's forename, since they're as redundant as some of those hyphens!...
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guest54
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« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2012, 02:31:12 pm »

Well! I have found two of his books:

Bernhard Ziehn (1845 to 1912) - Manual of harmony, theoretical and practical (1907):

http://archive.org/details/cu31924022305480


Bernhard Ziehn (1845 to 1912) - Canonical studies : a new technique of composition (c. 1912):

http://archive.org/details/canonicalstudies00ziehuoft

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