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Reposting of Composer Catalogues


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Author Topic: Reposting of Composer Catalogues  (Read 1469 times)
Dundonnell
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« on: January 12, 2014, 01:02:59 am »

Following on from posts on the Estonian Composers' thread....

I have absolutely no objection to catalogues I compiled and posted elsewhere being reposted on this forum by other members Smiley

All I would, respectfully, suggest is that it would be I think appropriate to give such reposted catalogues an attribution Smiley
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britishcomposer
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« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2014, 05:12:21 pm »

I absolutely agree with you on this subject, Colin, but may I remember you that you planned to give credits to your sources yourself?  Wink

The lists as such are of great value to the music lover and often they are my first contact when looking for a composition date or a recording.
But from a musicologist viewpoint - I studied a few years in the 90s - they are not recommendable because you didn't credit your sources (such as Grove, wikipedia, composer's homepages or university catalogues).

Please don't misunderstand me: I do not want to attack you but so are the facts.
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Elroel
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« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2014, 06:40:08 pm »

For me I don't see the necessity to have the sources. The fact that the lists are created and available, helps me to fill in
the gaps in my knowledge. The works are named, so I can, if I wish so, try and find more information.

In the way Colin makes this lists, they are easy to use. and more so, I think if I ask him for the source, he will supply.
Earlier Colin told us that he stopped with creating these lists, if I not misread, but then I already gathered, he wouldn'' act so.

Keep on doing it.

from Another listmaker

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britishcomposer
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« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2014, 09:07:31 pm »

For me I don't see the necessity to have the sources.

But so may Dave say he doesn't see the necessity to credit Colin as his source!  Wink
Well, if you don't see the necessity it's at least a sign of reverence to those who have researched before you.
Colin has done a great job, no doubt, but others have done before him and perhaps they wouldn't mind being credited either.  Wink
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cilgwyn
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« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2014, 12:26:50 am »

If everyone has to credit someone or something every time they post something this could lead to allot of typing and extra words!
But I see your point,'britishcomposer!'

You could always paste them in Dundonnell,if you want to!
(I hate to say this,but You should have seen this one coming,I suppose!!! (I would place a Sad face & a Grin emoticon here normally,but after your pc problems I decided to reinstall 'NoScript! and it's late,I forgot & I would have to reload!!)

Now,is there anyone I need to credit?!!!!!




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Dundonnell
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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2014, 01:08:22 am »

No....Mathias makes a perfectly valid point Smiley  I did make that promise and I failed to keep it Sad

If I am asking other members to attribute repostings of my Composer Catalogues to me as the compiler then I should have provided my sources of information.

(By the same token, when I repost music files which have disappeared from Mediafire I should attribute them to the original poster. Since however many of these were first posted on another forum that information is now shrouded in secrecy!)

The truth of the matter is simply this: I moved on from compiling these Catalogues (just over a year ago) when the material I have been compiling for decades on British Diplomats was discovered by the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office. For the last year I have therefore been extraordinarily busy with further diplomatic research. That material has now been published by the FCO. I am however now doing similar research for the Ministry of Defence.

I promised myself that when that was complete I would return to the Composers' Catalogues, update them to take account of new recordings issued, and give sources where appropriate.

I shall attempt to keep that promise, Matthias Smiley I may need now-with the passing of time- to provide somewhat generic sources as they apply to particular countries and their composers. I doubt if I shall ever be able to remember each and every source for all of nearly a thousand individual composers Sad

I hope that this full explanation, whilst it will not placate you, at least clarifies the position.
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cilgwyn
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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2014, 01:57:11 am »

Okay,that's sorted! Grin

And the emoticon (scripts allowed!)
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Jolly Roger
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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2014, 03:14:11 am »

For me I don't see the necessity to have the sources.

But so may Dave say he doesn't see the necessity to credit Colin as his source!  Wink
Well, if you don't see the necessity it's at least a sign of reverence to those who have researched before you.
Colin has done a great job, no doubt, but others have done before him and perhaps they wouldn't mind being credited either.  Wink

What Dundonnel has asked for is completely reasonable and we are all in his debt. When it comes down to the basics, my only concern is WHO created the list and that speaks to its credibility. I do not know anyone having more integrity than someone who is extremely knowledgeable, someone we all trust as having done due diligence and someone who is open to change.
I would only suggest that you include your name (Dundonnel) to every catalog, and maybe the date last modified, and a possibly malibox or topic where viewers could send updates or corrections. Then replication is not an issue, but these are only suggestions and the list is fine as is..

Attributing each and every entry to a specific source could make it a musical Tower of Babel.  
And what source would make sense for The 1812 Overture or Beethoven's 5th for that matter, and who would care?

I check it to see what I may have missed by a favorite and/or prolific composer but it is not the only place I look. This is an imperfect world and Dundonnel
has done us all a great service with his efforts.
Please continue the lists as is, they have been invaluable to me and I am grateful that  they exist.
JR
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Dundonnell
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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2014, 04:30:47 am »

You are very kind Smiley Thank you Smiley
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britishcomposer
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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2014, 04:17:15 pm »

Thank you very much for your understanding, Colin! Smiley
As I said before: among our small group of music lovers and collectors these lists are invaluable.
So, if your intention was just to please us you were successful.  Grin
It's only when we think about reaching out to the world outside that these aspects become debateable.

Quite another thing: in Germany the GEMA is the society for musical performing and mechanical reproduction rights.
When a composer wants to publish a piece in which he quotes music by another composer, he has to fill in a form and submit it to the GEMA.
The young composer Johannes Kreidler considered this to be ridiculous in our age where every bit of sound is available online.
Therefore he wrote a short piece (33 seconds) based on 70.200 music samples, filled in 70.200 forms, put them in a van and drove them to the GEMA office.
Here's the video:
http://kreidler-net.de/productplacements-e.html

 Shocked Grin
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Dundonnell
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« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2015, 12:47:39 am »

Members will have noticed that I have begun reposting my Composer Catalogues.

This is partly because I have a little more spare time at the moment and partly because a number of Wikipedia articles on composers have been copied and posted onto this site.

I am only too aware that by doing so I am likely to re-open the discussion about my sources Embarrassed

My problem is that the vast majority of these catalogues were now compiled around three years ago. I have been hugely busy with research into completely different areas of interest to me (Diplomatic and Military). My work on British Diplomats attracted the interest of the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office and led to the great honour of an award in the recent New Year's Honours List. I am currently in discussion with the British Library and the National Library of Scotland with regard to the archiving of my research material and a copyright license to allow them to put my material on their digital archive for better public access.

I only say all this as an extended mea culpa in relation to my sources of information for the Composer Catalogues. These catalogues-please, please remember-were originally compiled simply for my own interest and use and because I love the research challenges involved. They were not originally intended for wider dissemination........until, as is often the case with me, my enthusiasm ran away with me Grin

I SHALL attempt at some point to go back and attempt-where possible-to provide some form of perhaps rather national or generic source attribution but I can make no specific promises.  If this devalues the catalogues then so be it. It is one reason why I do not put them onto Wikipedia where one properly expects source attribution.
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Dundonnell
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« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2015, 11:01:48 pm »

It has taken me just over a month to repost my Catalogues of the Orchestral Music of a fairly substantial number of composers. Some of these were already on this site; others were originally posted on the Unsung Composers site.

I hope that some at least will find these catalogues of use. There most certainly will be mistakes, omissions, typos etc. They do however represent a vast amount of research.

.....and, to those thoroughly fed up by my daily flooding of this site with my catalogues I can only apologise.

I have (I think Grin Grin) finished.
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