Johann Nepomuk David - a first volume from cpo / finally

[kyjo]

No harm done, Greg! I guess you just haven't been bitten by the "CD collecting bug" (as it were) in order to comprehend Colin and I's voraciousness in acquiring new music ;D

[guest128]

No harm done, Greg! I guess you just haven't been bitten by the "CD collecting bug" (as it were) in order to comprehend Colin and I's voraciousness in acquiring new music ;D

Um, no, - I've been overbitten (a sting rather than an itch in my case).

[Dundonnell]

OK, - my apologies for violating the protocols, if that's what I (unintentionally) did, - (though I was being
serious and not humorous, Kyjo, - but in a playful and theatrical way; emoticons always seem kind of goofy to me when I use them).

It's only that the question arises in my mind from time to time (about myself as much as anyone) as to what lies behind the wish to accumulate and engage with thousands upon thousands of music recordings, - and can one avoid the eventual despair such unbridled aestheticism typically results in (or at least in my and some others' experience).

It seems a valid question, and one I've discussed with more than a few acquaintances away from the forum.

Colin's such a colorful and eloquent character here, and such a voracious and enthusiastic collector and commentator (Kyjo too), I thought I might engage them on a topic with quite alot of curious and interesting facets to it.  But apparently I only succeeded in provoking defensiveness and ill-will (again, unintentionally).  Sorry. 

As Kyle said, Greg, no harm done :) :) ("goofy" emoticons)

I was so burned by my unfortunate and deeply hurtful experiences on another forum that I tend to be rather over-sensitive but I certainly did guess that your post was good-natured and was as much a commentary on your own collecting bug as on anybody else's :)  I am also touched by your very kind comments in a more recent post :)

It is indeed the downside of a "collecting mania" that I download seven Johann Nepomuk David symphonies, listen to them and, but a few months later, am unable to res[pond promptly or properly to a request for a recommendation on which are the most impressive or "profound, complex and exciting". As a matter of fact I am not sure that I would characterise any as necessarily "profound" or "exciting". They are immensely solid, worthy works, perhaps somewhat "academic" in that David is obviously influenced by Bachian polyphony and the use of counterpoint and fugue. They will not, I suspect, set the heather on fire but they are worth revival. They will repay study and attention. Although David was a pupil of Joseph Marx they sound nothing like the lush romanticism of that composer. They are more in line of succession from, say, Bruckner but without the monumentalism and with more of an acerbic nature.

[Gauk]

Returning to the OP, I see the release date is scheduled to be 27 January.

[Jolly Roger]

Well...all the symphonies are available for download (or to listen to) from our site :)

Yes, I'm aware of that; never got around to listening to them, though! What is your opinion of David's music, Colin? I'm just a bit worried David's music will be on the "dry" or "academic" side for my taste!

P.S. I see Greg K deleted his post-it's a shame he felt he needed to do that :(

amid all the gobbledegook, never saw this question asked...what should we expect if we but the David CD?
What is his music like?

[Dundonnell]

"Amid all the gobbledegook" ::) ??? ::)

What precisely do you mean by that ???

I have attempted-with obviously no success whatsoever-to give some tentative description of David's style. Most of his symphonies are available to download from this site- or, if the links are no longer available, I can (as always) repost those same links so that you can sample the music for yourself.

[Jolly Roger]

"Amid all the gobbledegook" ::) ??? ::)

What precisely do you mean by that ???

I have attempted-with obviously no success whatsoever-to give some tentative description of David's style. Most of his symphonies are available to download from this site- or, if the links are no longer available, I can (as always) repost those same links so that you can sample the music for yourself.

I'm sorry, my use of the term "gobbledegook" was directed at what I perceived as superfluous chatter about things not relative to the thread. It was certainly not intended to reflect upon your impressions of the music, which have always been invaluable to me. And If you have more of David, please repost it all when you have a moment.

[Gauk]

AFAIK the links are still working. I find David's music very interesting - definitely worth exploring. I suppose one could say it is vaguely typical of mid-20th C German symphonism, as represented by Braunfels, Pfitzner, Hindemith etc.

[kyjo]

I hear nothing of the rich late-romanticism of either Pfitzner or Braunfels in David's music. Certainly his music is more akin to Hindemith and the other Central and Eastern European neoclassicists of the time, with occasional archaic leanings (such as extensive use of counterpoint) and use of modality.

[guest128]

More than likely I'm the main gobbledegooker Jolly holds responsible for diverting the thread (not that anything had been posted on it for long before that), and so he may frown as well at my David recommendation, - but for what it's worth I always find Symphony No.2 the most musical and approachable among the Symphonies, - in fact the only one I care to listen to now. The others in general tend towards aridity and are full of quite ugly sounds IMO.

[kyjo]

I would tend to agree with you, Greg, in that I prefer the earlier symphonies to the later ones. The earlier ones (esp. no. 2) have moments of great beauty and a modal gentleness that recalls, of all composers, RVW! The later ones could be described as Bartok without the inspiration and flashes of color. Quite abrasive, arid music indeed.

[Dundonnell]

"Amid all the gobbledegook" ::) ??? ::)

What precisely do you mean by that ???

I have attempted-with obviously no success whatsoever-to give some tentative description of David's style. Most of his symphonies are available to download from this site- or, if the links are no longer available, I can (as always) repost those same links so that you can sample the music for yourself.

I'm sorry, my use of the term "gobbledegook" was directed at what I perceived as superfluous chatter about things not relative to the thread. It was certainly not intended to reflect upon your impressions of the music, which have always been invaluable to me. And If you have more of David, please repost it all when you have a moment.

Thank you for your helpful and indeed kind clarification of your previous post :)

(It is absolutely no excuse for my over-sensitivity but a very good friend of mine is seriously ill and waiting for test results at present and, as a result, I am both extremely anxious and-consequentially-somewhat on edge :()

[Dundonnell]

I am listening to the Symphony No.6 as I write....not, obviously, from the new cd release but from our off-air version.

It was written in 1954 which makes it roughly contemporary with late Hindemith or with late Karl Amadeus Hartmann. The symphony is certainly less "abrasive" than late Hartmann. It is characterised by a more "academic contrapuntalism" than the serial influences which apply to Hartmann's later music.

"Arid" ??? Well that is really very much a matter of opinion. For a middle-aged, traditionally-minded composer living in Germany in the 1950s, assailed on every side by the (at times vicious) reaction from younger German composers (Darmstadt etc etc) to all that had gone before, "luscious romanticism" was unlikely to be on the agenda. It must have been extremely difficult to try to compose music which did not consign most of the past to the musical dustbin. I hear music which is attempting to continue with traditional forms but to move the idiom forward into the second half of the 20th century.

Yes....there is a certain absence of warmth and colour about the symphony. I will freely concede that. But...having spent a number of years looking forward to getting David's music onto disc and almost that long begging CPO to hurry up with their release programme  ;D I cannot be other than entirely open-minded and wait to see what impression modern performances and recordings of the complete set will create.

[guest128]

I am listening to the Symphony No.6 as I write....not, obviously, from the new cd release but from our off-air version.

It was written in 1954 which makes it roughly contemporary with late Hindemith or with late Karl Amadeus Hartmann. The symphony is certainly less "abrasive" than late Hartmann. It is characterised by a more "academic contrapuntalism" than the serial influences which apply to Hartmann's later music.

Regardless, (serial influence and abrasiveness notwithstanding)  one always feels a passion and engagement, - even vision, animating Hartmann's music, without the lurking odor of academicism that infects David (as you recognize).
By comparison he (David) is lifeless.

Not sure if Gauk correlates "very interesting" with vital, lucid, and communicative, and thus "definitely worth exploring" for that reason, - or just technically accomplished and/or of historical note.  I feel no opening of myself whatsoever when I listen (Symphony No.2 excepting, - I like at least the imaginativeness of Kyjo's analogy with Vaughan Williams), - only indifference.  The music is anonymous, grey and opaque, - but perhaps "expressive" of its time and place and thus genuine for David and his contemporaries.  Now?  Worthwhile for wonks, I suppose. - and always the curious (if but once).  I don't find the music endures, - however (as always) my own sensibilities and parochialisms could be an issue.

I feel similar to David as I do towards Marcel Rubin, the Symphonies of whom were uploaded to UC and which I listened through at about the same time (with it seemed many family resemblances between them).  There was one (like David's 2nd) that stood out and seemed especially memorable and compelling (Symphony No.4), - a nice discovery, but not the rest, which manifested to me some of the same negative qualities I've pinned on David.

I wonder if Gauk or Latvian or Colin (or someone else familiar with both composers) could say something more about them in relation to one another in their experience (and/or musically and historically) if that's discernible?

[kyjo]

Agree with you regarding Hartmann, Greg. His Seventh and Eighth symphonies may be a little tough going, but they are far from "arid" and are full of personality. I, for one, consider Hartmann's first six symphonies to be among the greatest achievements of symphonic writing and believe them to be in a totally different league than those of JN David.