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[guest822]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about the Ohio Light Opera's Princess Ida; that's very interesting.

Thanks also for the link to the Oakapple Press review of the 1955 Decca Ida. Indeed, the reviewer didn't seem to take to Victoria Sladen, to put it mildly! In fact, he didn't think much several of the cast but he did devote an inordinate number of column inches to slagging off Ms Sladen. It was an entertaining bit of invective! ;D

[Albion]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about the Ohio Light Opera's Princess Ida; that's very interesting.

Thanks also for the link to the Oakapple Press review of the 1955 Decca Ida. Indeed, the reviewer didn't seem to take to Victoria Sladen, to put it mildly! In fact, he didn't think much several of the cast but he did devote an inordinate number of column inches to slagging off Ms Sladen. It was an entertaining bit of invective! ;D

The best vocal Princess Idas I've ever heard are Jeanette Sinclair for Stanford Robinson's 1966 BBC Broadcast and Valerie Masterson for Charles Mackerras' 1989 BBC Broadcast - both superb performances. Masterson spoke her own dialogue but in 1966 the text was delivered by no less than the great Prunella Scales...



...This is our duty plain towards
Our Princess all immaculate,
We ought to bless her brothers' swords
And piously ejaculate...

Let battle commence!

[guest822]

Masterson spoke her own dialogue but in 1966 the text was delivered by no less than the great Prunella Scales...

Let battle commence!

Let no word be uttered against Prunella Scales or battle will, indeed, commence!

[cilgwyn]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about the Ohio Light Opera's Princess Ida; that's very interesting.

Thanks also for the link to the Oakapple Press review of the 1955 Decca Ida. Indeed, the reviewer didn't seem to take to Victoria Sladen, to put it mildly! In fact, he didn't think much several of the cast but he did devote an inordinate number of column inches to slagging off Ms Sladen. It was an entertaining bit of invective! ;D

I thought you might enjoy reading that,Lionel! ;D I've got to say,I disagree with some of the views expressed at Oakapple. I think that,with the exception of Victoria Sladen,the 1955 recording is rather good. The women and the chorus are excellent;and the score is conducted at a spritely pace. The male singers are not as good. Although,I think I preferred Peter Pratt to John Reed (marginally) as King Gama. That said,Michael Walters at Oakapple doesn't appear to like either of them! I'll have to listen to the earlier recordings of the King Gama role.  I think I have the Henry Lytton recording?! (I'll have to look!) He mentions Martyn Green. I can imagine he would be great in that role? Martyn Green was wonderful in the patter roles! I agree,with Albion,that the BBC recordings of Princess Ida are the best ever. And yes,both are good. I do have the one with Sybil Fawlty.....I mean,Prunella Scales ;D (no part for Manuel or the Major! ;D). And yes,I do think the 1966 recording does have the edge. I,actually,quite like the Ohio Light Opera recording;but it's the weakest one of the series. The cast is,certainly,the least consistent! The women are good,though! As,usual! That said,I wouldn't recommend it,to be honest! It does have the dialogue,though! The Ohio Series is controversial,among Savoyards,mind! At least over here! Oakapple tend to look askance at it. I can't help thinking they just don't like the yanks infiltrating such a hallowed British institution! Their Ruddigore is,actually,my favourite commercial recording of that operetta! Although,I think the 1966 BBC recording with Hyacinth Bucket,no less (Patricia Routledge) is,probably my favourite,out of all the recordings. And the best ever;if you like the dialogue! (The Ohio recording is,suprisingly,good!)The 1962 D'Oyly Carte would have been a front runner for me,if it had included dialogue! (It's still very good!) I'm a big fan of the D'Oyly Carte recordings. I even like their later (70's) recordings,which Oakapple disparage!. As a matter of fact,their 1974 Iolanthe is my favourite recording of the operetta! It's the first one I ever heard,via the Decca Lp set,in my local library. Oakapple give it a rating of one star!! :o :( I also,like the 1977 D'Oyly Carte Gondoliers,very much. Again,it was the first recording of that operetta I ever heard. Again,via the local library! Oakapple awarded it two stars!! :o ::) ;D Thanks to Decca Eloquence I was finally able to acquire those recordings in cd form! I also,quite like some of Sargent's Glyndebourne series for emi. Sargent's Yeomen is my favourite,along with the Marriner (I wish he'd done another one,by the way!). The singing on that set is so wonderful. And,the Yeomen of the Guard is the most operatic of the operettas,as you know. I also like the Sargent recording of The Mikado,which Oakapple award two stars! Yes,it lacks humour,I suppose?! But the singing is top notch. With respect to the quality of the singing it's probably my favourite! I even like Geraint Evans as Ko-Ko.!! Not ideal for the part,I know. But I just love his voice! (And,Geraint Evans in the 1958 Sargent Yeomen is my favourite Jack Point! :o) I also like the 1973 D'Oyly Carte,which Oakapple give two points! :( John Reed is my favourite ever Ko-Ko! Although,Martyn Green is,probably,even better?!! Again,the 1973 recording was my first ever encounter with the operetta. )The local library had all the D'Oyly Carte stereo recordings. Except the 50's Pirates and Mikado! (Decca favoured the John Reed recordings!). The 1957 Sargent Gondoliers is also one of the best,in terms of the actual quality of the singing. It's true that the D'Oyly Carte recordings have more gaiety and sparkle,though.
Of course,the folks at Oakapple know far more about G & S than I do,or ever will! So,I'm not arguing with their verdict on all the various recordings. And as an overall guide to all the recordings that are available,the discography at Oakapple is an invaluable and fascinating mine of information.

I'll need a rest after typing all this! ::) ;D

[cilgwyn]

Playing now: Bruckner: Symphony No 8       Vienna Philharmonic / Herbert Von Karajan       Dg

[guest822]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about the Ohio Light Opera's Princess Ida; that's very interesting.

Thanks also for the link to the Oakapple Press review of the 1955 Decca Ida. Indeed, the reviewer didn't seem to take to Victoria Sladen, to put it mildly! In fact, he didn't think much several of the cast but he did devote an inordinate number of column inches to slagging off Ms Sladen. It was an entertaining bit of invective! ;D

I thought you might enjoy reading that,Lionel! ;D I've got to say,I disagree with some of the views expressed at Oakapple. I think that,with the exception of Victoria Sladen,the 1955 recording is rather good. The women and the chorus are excellent;and the score is conducted at a spritely pace. The male singers are not as good. Although,I think I preferred Peter Pratt to John Reed (marginally) as King Gama. That said,Michael Walters at Oakapple doesn't appear to like either of them! I'll have to listen to the earlier recordings of the King Gama role.  I think I have the Henry Lytton recording?! (I'll have to look!) He mentions Martyn Green. I can imagine he would be great in that role? Martyn Green was wonderful in the patter roles! I agree,with Albion,that the BBC recordings of Princess Ida are the best ever. And yes,both are good. I do have the one with Sybil Fawlty.....I mean,Prunella Scales ;D (no part for Manuel or the Major! ;D). And yes,I do think the 1966 recording does have the edge. I,actually,quite like the Ohio Light Opera recording;but it's the weakest one of the series. The cast is,certainly,the least consistent! The women are good,though! As,usual! That said,I wouldn't recommend it,to be honest! It does have the dialogue,though! The Ohio Series is controversial,among Savoyards,mind! At least over here! Oakapple tend to look askance at it. I can't help thinking they just don't like the yanks infiltrating such a hallowed British institution! Their Ruddigore is,actually,my favourite commercial recording of that operetta! Although,I think the 1966 BBC recording with Hyacinth Bucket (Patricia Routledge) is,probably my favourite,out of all the recordings. And the best ever;if you like the dialogue! (The Ohio recording is,suprisingly,good!)The 1962 D'Oyly Carte would have been a front runner for me,if it had included dialogue! (It's still very good!) I'm a big fan of the D'Oyly Carte recordings. I even like their later (70's) recordings,which Oakapple disparage!. As a matter of fact,their 1974 Iolanthe is my favourite recording of the operetta! It's the first one I ever heard,via the Decca Lp set,in my local library. Oakapple give it a rating of one star!! :o :( I also,like the 1977 D'Oyly Carte Gondoliers,very much. Again,it was the first recording of that operetta I ever heard. Again,via the local library! Oakapple awarded it two stars!! :o ::) ;D Thanks to Decca Eloquence I was finally able to acquire those recordings in cd form! I also,quite like some of Sargent's Glyndebourne series for emi. Sargent's Yeomen is my favourite,along with the Marriner (I wish he'd done another one,by the way!). The singing on that set is so wonderful. And,the Yeomen of the Guard is the most operatic of the operettas,as you know. I also like the Sargent recording of The Mikado,which Oakapple award two stars! Yes,it lacks humour,I suppose?! But the singing is top notch. With respect to the quality of the singing it's probably my favourite! I even like Geraint Evans as Ko-Ko.!! Not ideal for the part,I know. But I just love his voice! (And,Geraint Evans in the 1958 Sargent Yeomen is my favourite Jack Point! :o) I also like the 1973 D'Oyly Carte,which Oakapple give two points! :( John Reed is my favourite ever Ko-Ko! Although,Martyn Green is,probably,even better?!! Again,the 1973 recording was my first ever encounter with the operetta. )The local library had all the D'Oyly Carte stereo recordings. Except the 50's Pirates and Mikado! (Decca favoured the John Reed recordings!). The 1957 Sargent Gondoliers is also one of the best,in terms of the actual quality of the singing. It's true that the D'Oyly Carte recordings have more gaiety and sparkle,though.
Of course,the folks at Oakapple know far more about G & S than I do,or ever will! So,I'm not arguing with their verdict on all the various recordings. And as overall guide to all the recordings that are available,the discography at Oakapple is an invaluable and fascinating mine of information.

I'll need a rest after typing all this! ::) ;D

Again, thank you for those comprehensive thoughts. It's my impression from dealing with Savoyards of one sort and another over the years that they are very firm in their views on all aspects of production and recording of these beloved operas, and any disagreements will not be tolerated. >:(

It's splendid that folks should be so passionate about them; they do deserve such devotion because they are, after all is said and done, works of genius. However, one of the definitions of greatness in music is that the works concerned are susceptible of more than one interpretation. For that reason, if no other, I don't have a problem with Americans performing G&S. To do so would be as silly as to say that Elgar and Vaughan Wiliams should only be conducted by British conductors with British orchestras, which is patently absurd. Works of genius transcend national boundaries. They also transcend time and fashion, which is why the Savoy operas are just as brilliant, funny and heartwarming today as they were when they were written.

I like the Sargent recordings; in one way they are inauthentic in as much as he uses a bigger string section than Sullivan would have had but he manages the balance carefully and the added richness only enhances the music to my mind. For what it's worth, I'm not fussed about the dialogue; it wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me either way. 

Dinner time! 

[guest822]

Playing now: Bruckner: Symphony No 8       Vienna Philharmonic / Herbert Von Karajan       Dg

From Sullivan to Bruckner; no-one can say you have narrow interests!

[cilgwyn]

I'll need that Ohio Light Opera Patience later,though! ;D I haven't listened to the second cd of the set,yet!

Regarding dialogue. Some people don't like it. Allot of people hate it! I prefer some dialogue,generally. That said! Do I really listen,avidly,to every word of it?!! Also,it is nice to hear just the music at times,without chin-wagging,in between. This is where the Glyndebourne/Sargent sets come in handy,for the D'Oyly Carte sets without dialogue. And some of the earlier recordings as well,if you're like me and you don't mind mono and maybe,some hiss,pop and crackle?!! ;D It's true dialogue is hard to bring off in a recording,away from the stage & the action! I do think it's a pity they didn't include it in the D'Oyly Carte Ruddigore,though;because the plot is such fun with the ghosts and curse! Also,now the D'Oyly Carte is gone;and I think it would have been nice to hear them performing the dialogue in Ruddigore and The Mikado (for example). Alas,another piece of history is gone! I do find it interesting that French and German operettas tended to get recorded with dialogue included. It seems that continental audiences are more tolerant of chin-wagging between numbers. I have,nearly,two big shelves filled with recordings of French & German operettas and nearly every one of them includes dialogue. I actually enjoy listening to the bits of dialogue,even though I don't understand or speak a word of French or German!! Yes,I know it's wierd!! ::) ;D
If you enjoy dialogue though,there are the BBC recordings from the 60's and 80's and the Ohio Light Opera recordings have filled in the gaps,when it comes to comes to commercially available recordings. So,problem for dialogue junkies solved,anyway!! ;D :)
Incidentally,I think if I had to pick the best recordings with dialogue (excluding the BBC broadcasts) I would single out the 1959 HMS Pinafore and 1968 Pirates (with Owen Brannigan). The  dialogue in the latter still makes me laugh!

The Glyndebourne sets are beautifully sung and the bigger string section is an added plus! In fact,for the sheer beauty of the singing,the Sargent recordings are hard to beat! Fun artwork,too! I've got to admit,I haven't bothered much with any of the post D'Oyly Carte (the original one) recordings. As you know,I like singers from that era;and the D'Oyly Carte and Sargent recordings are just so good! As are the BBC recordings (It would be nice if they got a cd release one day!). I bought,the Ohio Light Opera recordings for the dialogue. So it was The Sorcerer,Utopia Limited,Ruddigore,Princess Ida........and I liked them,so it sort of expanded from there. I think it is interesting to hear American's doing G & S,and I think it is great that they are bringing this wonderful duo to audiences over there and through their recordings. It would be nice to see more interest here,too! I can't remember the last time I saw a mention of a Gilbert and Sullivan operetta in the local newspaper's here. I can remember a time when I couln't open a paper without a school or amateur operatic society putting on a production of HMS Pinafore or The Gondoliers (for example). I can even remember the entire school being detained,after assembly,until somebody volunteered for the upcoming production of Ruddigore (I think?). In the end a few hands,finally,went up! (The Deputy Head still able to wield the old bamboo,back,then!! :o ;D)

[cilgwyn]

Now Playing! Bruckner: Symphony No 6    Berlin Philharmonic / Herbert Von Karajan

Like Captain Oates....."I may be some time!" ;D

[cilgwyn]

I didn't realise Robert Simpson was Composer of the Week! I'd have listened to some of the program's. (I like listening on a radio*! ::)). There's a live broadcast of his Symphony No 2 next week,with Brabbins conducting the BBC Philharmonic. I'll try and listen. But I may forget or have things to do?!!

* I actually,purposely,listen to programs on Radio 4,on Longwave! ::) ;D FM's okay,though! And DAB is still radio! I'll only listen via the internet if I have to!! ::) ::) 

[cilgwyn]

Finally, I think that Coke is all right, so long as you put enough rum in it!

;D

[guest822]

I have,nearly,two big shelves filled with recordings of French & German operettas and nearly every one of them includes dialogue. I actually enjoy listening to the bits of dialogue,even though I don't understand or speak a word of French or German!! Yes,I know it's wierd!! ::) ;D

Yes, even I have to admit that is a little, how shall I put this? "eccentric." Unless, of course, when the dialogue starts you are popping out to the kitchen to put the kettle on. But some of these French and German operettas have lots of spells of dialogue and surely nobody can drink that many cups of tea in two hours!  :o :o

[guest822]

Now Playing! Bruckner: Symphony No 6    Berlin Philharmonic / Herbert Von Karajan

Like Captain Oates....."I may be some time!" ;D

I sincerely hope that, unlike Captain Oates, you return in good health! ;D

[guest822]

I didn't realise Robert Simpson was Composer of the Week! I'd have listened to some of the program's. (I like listening on a radio*! ::)). There's a live broadcast of his Symphony No 2 next week,with Brabbins conducting the BBC Philharmonic. I'll try and listen. But I may forget or have things to do?!!

* I actually,purposely,listen to programs on Radio 4,on Longwave! ::) ;D FM's okay,though! And DAB is still radio! I'll only listen via the internet if I have to!! ::) ::) 

Where the wireless is concerned, I still think of the Home Service, the Light Programme and the Third Programme. That tells you how old I am!  ;)

[cilgwyn]

Gilbert and Sullivan: Patience    Cecily Eliis-Bills (Patience) Kyle Kapp (Bunthorne) Jon Gerhard (Grosvenor) Lady Jane (Julie Wright) Chelsea Basler (Lady Saphir)
                                               Tanila Mandzy (Lady Angela) Boyd Mackus (Colonel) Drake Dantzler (Duke) Cory Clines (Major)
                                               Chorus & Orch of the Ohio Opera /Steven             Albany 2 cd's


Cd: 2 of this set! I think this is one of the Ohio lot's best! As I said,I like the feeling you get of a stage performance,without the annoying noises,which you wouldn't notice or mind,if you were actually at a performance. The singing is of a high standard on this recording. The women are,particularly,good. (Interestingly,the women in these Ohio recordings are,consistently,better than the men! I wonder why?!) I like the handling of the dialogue,which is livelier and less stylised than the 1961 D'Oyly Carte,which is the only alternative with dialogue. I haven't detected any American accent's,so far!! I like the small orchestra used in these recordings. I think it give a nice pit band feel to the production. And the playing is nice & spritely. No John Reed or Martyn Green for the patter songs;but the Ohio chap makes a pretty good job of the comedy role,all things considered. Being American means assuming an English accent and taking on a comedy institution! You're never going to emulate those giants,are you? They might love you in Ohio,but in dear old blighty they're going to be comparing you with the chap on those old Decca records!! ::) :( ;D

I played a cd of Rachmaninov conducting his Symphony No 3,Isle of the Dead and Vocalise,a bit earlier. I've got the Pearl cd,which has a rare & striking colour photo of Rachmaninov on the front. The Musicweb review of the cd describes the transfer as one of 'minimal intervention! This is fine by me! Lot's of shellac hiss,pop and crackle! :) (Perhaps one of the musician's was frying some sausages in the background?! I'm joking,of course!! ;D) The sound has a lovely,rich clarity to it;albeit with the bass increased! In fact,I was amazed by the sound quality of these recordings! :o The 1929 recordings,in particular,are some of the best I've ever heard from that period. The booklet mentions that Rachmaninov wanted to conduct a recording of his Symphonic Dances;but it was vetoed by the record label!! :( :( :( These are magnificent recordings;and not merely of historic interest!