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Gauk
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« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2013, 08:42:42 am » |
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I listened again to Braga Santos's 1st symphony last night - the VW influence is very strong, especially in the first movement.
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Dundonnell
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« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2013, 11:54:23 am » |
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I listened again to Braga Santos's 1st symphony last night - the VW influence is very strong, especially in the first movement.
Braga Satos composed his First Symphony in 1946 at the age of 22. As far as I know he had never been out of Portugal. It is unlikely that he had ever heard any RVW in concert inside Portugal. Had he studied an RVW score ??? I have no idea. |
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Toby Esterhase
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« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2013, 01:54:03 pm » |
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Would Grace Williams be a RVW follower?
I'd be a little more cautious in the first part of her production she was more linked to a certain wiew of folk music (she had studied with RVW) meanwhile in the latter part i'd see more Britten or as in 2nd symphony the DSCH influx. |
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Gauk
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« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2013, 03:19:30 pm » |
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Braga Satos composed his First Symphony in 1946 at the age of 22. As far as I know he had never been out of Portugal. It is unlikely that he had ever heard any RVW in concert inside Portugal. Had he studied an RVW score ??? I have no idea.
He could have heard it on the radio, perhaps? The influence of VW 4 is so strong it would be surprising if it were coincidence. |
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Christo
Level 4
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... an opening of those magic casements ...
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« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2013, 06:43:31 am » |
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Braga Satos composed his First Symphony in 1946 at the age of 22. As far as I know he had never been out of Portugal. It is unlikely that he had ever heard any RVW in concert inside Portugal. Had he studied an RVW score ??? I have no idea.
He could have heard it on the radio, perhaps? The influence of VW 4 is so strong it would be surprising if it were coincidence. As far as I know (not that well, but I tried to find out, one day) he could hear British music on the radio. In that case, he might even have heard some Moeran - as the influences seem to be even stronger, there (e.g. the opening bars of Moeran's Sinfonietta compared to Braga Santos' Divertimento). |
… music is not only an `entertainment’, nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found. RVW, 1948
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Grandenorm
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« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2013, 06:14:40 pm » |
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Stanley Wilson, who was largely self-taught and did not, as far as I am aware, study with RVW at all. However, parts of his "Skye" Symphony (a Carnegie Trust winner - as were both RVW and Ina Boyle) read like VW.
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Gauk
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« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2013, 10:03:48 pm » |
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More likely Mongolian folk music shares some modalities with English. But another point: in the Youtube performance of the 1st, it seems to me the last two movements have been switched. Can anyone confirm? |
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Amphissa
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« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2017, 02:25:20 am » |
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Well, ya know, whatever ... Braga Santos was no RVW. I mean, I like his music, but they aren't in the same tier as far as I'm concerned.
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Dundonnell
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« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2017, 03:50:38 am » |
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Well, ya know, whatever ... Braga Santos was no RVW. I mean, I like his music, but they aren't in the same tier as far as I'm concerned.
With respect, I am not sure that is the point. I think that is a legitimate exercise to identify and examine the influences of the music of composers on others but I find ranking composers against each other ultimately a somewhat futile enterprise. I enjoy the music of both RVW and of Braga Santos. Was RVW the greater composer? Yes, almost certainly he was; his range across so many musical forms, the depth and profoundity of his music has attracted and will continue to attract conductors, other musicians and listeners for generations to come. Braga Santos wrote some incredibly rich, romantic and beautiful music, particularly in his first four symphonies. I am happy to love both just as I am happy to love both Nielsen and Sibelius, both Prokofiev and Shostakovich. ....and I am happy to ignore Hugh Wood's sour observation that "the work of their (Vaughan Williams and Holst) imitators is already dead". With due respect to Mr.Wood (who is a composer of distinction), I suspect that more people listen to the music of those he calls "imitators" (but does not name) than to his. |
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calyptorhynchus
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« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2017, 04:43:15 am » |
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It can work both ways: when I was listening to Moeran's Symphony recently I heard in it references to VW’s 4th Symphony (just new when M was composing his Symphony), but also passages that VW must have remembered when he composed his 5th Symphony!
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Christo
Level 4
Times thanked: 24
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... an opening of those magic casements ...
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« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2017, 07:36:50 pm » |
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....and I am happy to ignore Hugh Wood's sour observation that "the work of their (Vaughan Williams and Holst) imitators is already dead". In retrospect, it's rather obvious that the generation of these composers - Ruth Gipps comes to mind, but also Elizabeth Maconchy - was simply overtaken by the 'high modernism' that came in vogue - more so: in a powerful position - after the war. Now, finally hearing their music, I am so often struck by its quality. How many fine composers have we been neglecting for so long? ::) |
… music is not only an `entertainment’, nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found. RVW, 1948
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Elroel
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« Reply #42 on: September 25, 2017, 09:43:46 pm » |
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[ How many fine composers have we been neglecting for so long? ::)
That must be a vast number I believe. The modernists from the 50s and the 60s had a grip on the media. Everything less modern (in their eyes) was doomed to become hidden. Still, later in their lifes they seemed to have found the symphony orchestra back, as they did the symphony. |
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