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John Knowles Paine Symphony No.1 from Naxos

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Author Topic: John Knowles Paine Symphony No.1 from Naxos  (Read 1343 times)
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Dundonnell
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« on: August 01, 2013, 01:10:01 am »

Others will no doubt be more excited by this forthcoming release than I but never mind ;D

Given the recent discussion of American Music and Naxos..........

http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.559747
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Bosque Bill
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« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2013, 05:11:51 am »

Expertly constructed but warmed-over, second-rate, way-overrated German romanticism that continues to be championed by American conductors simply because Paine was an American composer. Many far more deserving composers from 19th century America remain neglected so we can get yet another recording of this. Oh, well.
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jasman
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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2013, 11:36:20 pm »

Pray tell us those more deserving. ???
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kyjo
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« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2013, 12:02:43 am »

Well, I, personally, think Paine is a very fine composer and disagree with Bosque Bill's assessment of him as "second-rate" and "way overrated". I am, however, slightly disappointed that Naxos chose to record his symphonies, which have already been recorded in excellent performances on New World Records, instead of recording the music of other American composers of equal (or possibly even greater) merit which has been left untouched by the record companies. I will restrain myself from yet again listing a bunch of obscure American composers whose music I would love to see recorded ;D
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Dundonnell
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« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2013, 12:17:26 am »

It could well be of course that since JoAnn Falletta and the Ulster Orchestra are contracted to Naxos the conductor herself suggested recording Paine's music to Naxos.

New World Records are not exactly easy to come by outside of the USA and Naxos can certainly do a better job of publicising the music. To my surprise I don't actually happen to have bought either of the symphonies on New World and-since they are late 19th century-I probably would not have done so ;D but at Naxos prices I definitely shall.

.....on the other hand ??? the Ulster Orchestra is not exactly the New York Philharmonic(as on New World) so will the performances exceed Mehta and the NYPO ??? ???
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Bosque Bill
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« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2013, 04:53:30 am »

By request, those far, far more deserving who spring immediately to mind: As you might expect from my spirited advocacy of him elsewhere in this forum, rollicking American composer Anthony Philip Heinrich, more historically relevant and far more innovative and lots more fun than Paine (evidence: "Mastodon Symphony," "Wildwood Spirits' Chant"), plus Edgar Stillman Kelley ("New England Symphony," "Gulliver"), Daniel Gregory Mason (three symphonies, including "Lincoln"), Arthur Farwell ("Rudolph Gott Symphony"), Carl Eppert (several symphonies), Frederick Converse ("California," "Scarecrow Sketches," the late symphonies) and Charles Cadman ("Pennsylvania Symphony"). My interests are primarily mid-20th century American composers, but this list should get you started. Kyjo has even more interesting ideas in this regard. To conductor Falleta's credit: her excellent performance of John Powell's "Virginia Symphony" and her disc of Converse. But I expect far more of her than Paine. Sorry!
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kyjo
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« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2013, 05:10:27 am »

By request, those far, far more deserving who spring immediately to mind: As you might expect from my spirited advocacy of him elsewhere in this forum, rollicking American composer Anthony Philip Heinrich, more historically relevant and far more innovative and lots more fun than Paine (evidence: "Mastodon Symphony," "Wildwood Spirits' Chant"), plus Edgar Stillman Kelley ("New England Symphony," "Gulliver"), Daniel Gregory Mason (three symphonies, including "Lincoln"), Arthur Farwell ("Rudolph Gott Symphony"), Carl Eppert (several symphonies), Frederick Converse ("California," "Scarecrow Sketches," the late symphonies) and Charles Cadman ("Pennsylvania Symphony"). My interests are primarily mid-20th century American composers, but this list should get you started. Kyjo has even more interesting ideas in this regard. To conductor Falleta's credit: her excellent performance of John Powell's "Virginia Symphony" and her disc of Converse. But I expect far more of her than Paine. Sorry!

Bill, are you, by any chance, familiar with this YouTube channel?: http://www.youtube.com/user/jksteven1 Jksteven1 has uploaded lots of obscure Americana from the late-romantic and modern eras and I'm sure you'd find lots to enjoy there. He's been uploading more music of other nationalities lately, though. Be warned that most of the recordings on this channel are taken from radio broadcasts and the sound is, in many instances, barely tolerable. But whatever the case, what a magnificent channel!

One composer who you don't mention who I would love to see a revival of is Edward Burlingame Hill (1872-1960). He wrote in an impressionist style rather reminiscent of Debussy with occasional influences from jazz, and, from what I've heard of him, he sounds like a really talented composer. His Symphony no. 1, Violin Concerto, Prelude for orchestra and Lilacs for orchestra can be found on that YouTube channel I mentioned. :)
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Bosque Bill
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« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2013, 05:23:55 pm »

Thanks for the heads-up, Kyjo. I will definitely check it out in hopes of broadening my horizons (and likely my advocacy of American music) even further. And, yes, I should not have forgotten Edward Burlingame Hill, a noted figure in American music at one time. Many of these individuals seemed to recede into the background as Copland, Harris, Schuman, Piston and others arrived on the scene. I believe I heard one of Hill's "Stevensonia" suites something like 40 years ago and recall being pleased to the point of wondering, again, why others weren't jumping all over this music. Perhaps I'm a little harsh about Paine's worth -- again, his music is expertly constructed -- but I believe we can all agree that Falleta and others of her caliber would be better off investing their considerable talents in some exciting revelations beyond Paine's works. Or, for that matter, yet another disc of George Gershwin!   
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kyjo
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« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2013, 05:37:17 pm »

I think you'll find a lot to enjoy on that channel! Another American romantic I've been really curious about is Louis Adolphe Coerne (1870-1922). His tone poem Excalibur, which is on that wonderful Bridge disc which includes the E.B. Hill Stevensonia Sutie no. 1, is a real cracker-a hyper-romantic piece which brings to mind Tchaikovsky, Bax and Bantock. Not much information can be found on him, but, according to Wikipedia, he composed a number of orchestral works and operas. Does anyone have any more information on him? Excalibur is really promising.....
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cilgwyn
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« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2013, 05:59:08 pm »

That's the one (Louis Coerne)! yes,a cracker it is! I love those Karl Krueger Bridge sets. Pure escapism.Worth every single penny! :) :) If you like that sort of repertoire they're a must buy! Marvellous!
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« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2013, 07:04:56 pm »

Does anyone have any more information on him? Excalibur is really promising.....

From Grove online -

(b Newark, NJ, 27 Feb 1870; d Boston, MA, 11 Sept 1922). American conductor and composer. He studied the violin with Franz Kneisel and composition at Harvard University with J.K. Paine (1888–90); from 1890 to 1893 he studied the organ and composition in Munich with Joseph Rheinberger. After holding various church and conducting appointments in Buffalo, New York and Columbus, Ohio, he returned to Germany, where he lived from 1899 to 1902 and completed Rheinberger’s unfinished Mass in A minor. From 1903 to 1904 he taught at Smith College and at Harvard, where he wrote his dissertation, The Evolution of Modern Orchestration (1908/R), and received the first PhD in music given by an American university (1905).

Coerne visited Germany again from 1905 to 1907. His opera Zenobia (op.66) was produced in Bremen in 1905; it was the first American opera to be heard in Germany and the only one of his stage works to be produced. His score combines elements of traditional operatic spectacle with Wagnerian leitmotif technique. His last posts included those of music director at Troy, New York (1907–9), director of the conservatory at Olivet (Michigan) College (1909–10), director of the school of music at the University of Wisconsin (1910–15) and professor at Connecticut College for Women, New London (1915–22). Some 300 of his more than 500 works were published. His manuscripts are in the Boston Public Library.

Works (selective list)

Stage: Evadne (ballet), op.15; A Woman of Marblehead (op, 2), op.40, unpubd; Zenobia (op, 3, O. Stein), op.66; Sakuntala (melodrama, after Kalidasa), op.67; Jungfer Königin (The Maiden Queen) (operetta), op.69, unpubd; The Bells of Beaujolais (operetta), unpubd; incid music
Orch: Fantasy, A, op.5; Conc.-Ov., D, op.7; Suite, d, op.10, str; Conc., E, op.12, hn, str, hp, org; Hiawatha, sym. poem, op.18; Jubilee March, E♭, op.20, military band; Ov., op.36; Tone-Picture, op.39; Romantic Conc., g, op.51, vn, orch; Tone Poem, op.59; Dedication Ode, op.82; On
Mountain-Crests, op.127

Vocal: Beloved America, patriotic hymn, op.41, male vv, orch; Festival Cant., op.45, solo vv, chorus and/or orch; Festival Morning and Communion Services, A, opp.46–7; Talitha cumi (sacred cant.), op.50, solo vv, chorus, str, hp, org; Mass, d, op.53, 6vv, org ad lib; Until the Day Break (sacred cant.), op.124, solo vv, chorus, pf/orch; A Song of Victory (patriotic cant.), op.125, solo vv, chorus, pf/orch; Skipper Ireson’s Ride (cant.), op.131, Bar, chorus, pf/orch; The Landing of the Pilgrims (cant.), op.135, Bar, chorus, pf/orch; The Man of Galilee (cant.), op.141, solo vv, chorus, org; many songs, anthems, choruses and partsongs

Chbr and solo inst: Str Qt, c, op.19; Concert-Piece, E, op.48, pf; Swedish Sonata, a, op.60, vn, pf; 3 Trios in Canon, op.62, pf trio; Concertino, D, op.63, vn, pf; 3 Pf Trios, op.64; Trio, op.139, fl, vc, hp; solo vn pieces; many solo kbd works

Arrs.: Rheinberger: Mass, a
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kyjo
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« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2013, 07:30:26 pm »

Many thanks for the information on Coerne, John :)
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Bosque Bill
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« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2013, 11:45:46 pm »

I completely missed this Bridge release, though I long ago procured the other 2-CD set of old Krueger recordings. Thanks for alerting me about it. Wish they'd get on the stick and release some of the rest of those recordings. I've always thought they were well-played and well-recorded, despite the criticism by some. Anyway, looks like another CD to purchase!
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kyjo
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« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2013, 12:12:52 am »

I completely missed this Bridge release, though I long ago procured the other 2-CD set of old Krueger recordings. Thanks for alerting me about it. Wish they'd get on the stick and release some of the rest of those recordings. I've always thought they were well-played and well-recorded, despite the criticism by some. Anyway, looks like another CD to purchase!

It's an awesome disc! You'll love it! Every piece on it is a real gem. I would go so far as to say Coerne's Excalibur alone is worth the price of this disc. This is my kind of music! I don't know when it was written (sometime before 1922 is all I know), but it sounds much more advanced than what MacDowell, Beach, Foote, Chadwick and co. were writing around the same time. You don't suppose Coerne could have heard any of Bax's music? There are some passages that are strikingly Baxian in their blustery tempestuousness and lush orchestration!

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Bosque Bill
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« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2013, 01:59:58 am »

I absolutely love Bax (and am lucky enough to have lived in an era when he is widely respected and recorded). You've definitely whetted my appetite. I'll pick it up in my next order. And, no, I never have heard of this fellow Coerne!
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