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Duttons for October

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Bosque Bill
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« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2013, 11:09:11 pm »

Yes, Kyjo, I recall long ago thinking how anyone who wanted to show just how lovely American music can be could put out a disc of just the slow movements to the Piston symphonies, particularly the later symphonies. (Not that I'm recommending that!) I'd love to see some of Converse's later symphonies receive attention. American and British critics alike have urged this at various points over the years. And it's a shame more Farwell isn't out there, given what little I've heard through the years. But then all this demonstrates again how lacking American record producers are when it comes to championing their country's own music. Some of us have been hopeful -- perhaps a little too hopeful -- that Dutton and Lockhart would show them a thing or two. Still, some of the other offerings in the Dutton October batch seem interesting, including Braunfels. Meanwhile, you're absolutely right that much ground remains to be covered in Piston, Diamond and other more mainstream American composers -- I fear the Harris cycle on Naxos has run aground -- but many treasures also remain among the lesser-known composers who once dominated the scene.
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tapiola
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« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2013, 11:11:41 pm »

What has not been recorded of Piston's works?
I have virtually everything the man composed.  No "Carnival Song" however.
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kyjo
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« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2013, 11:22:43 pm »

What has not been recorded of Piston's works?

Orchestral works of his that have not made it to CD, as far as I know-Prelude and Fugue, Fugue on a Victory Tune, Suite no. 2, Symphonic Prelude, Festival Overture Lincoln Center, Variations on a Theme of Edward Burlingame Hill, Pine Tree Fantasy and Ricercare. Nothing too major, except the Suite no. 2. Diamond's unrecorded orchestral works deserve attention, and fast! Piston's can wait, though.
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kyjo
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« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2013, 11:34:54 pm »

I fear the Harris cycle on Naxos has run aground

It has, without a doubt. That said, I'm not exactly devastated because of this, for two reasons. First of all, Alsop isn't really the ideal conductor for Harris' music; she's not unbuttoned enough for music of such explicit Americanisms and occasional "clunkiness". Second of all, Symphonies 2, 8 and 11 (all not among Harris' best works) have been recorded in fine performances by Albany, and Symphonies 10, 12 and the Bicentennial Symphony are downright disastrous works, I'm afraid to admit :( What ever was Harris thinking? So, that leaves Symphony no. 1, which is a fine work; breezy, brash and optimistic in true Harris fashion, as the only symphony really crying out for a modern recording. Harris is a frustratingly uneven composer-the difference in quality between the undoubted masterpiece that is Symphony no. 3 and works such as the tenth, eleventh and Bicentennial symphonies that should be left in the archives to gather dust, is unbelievable. Still, Harris is a composer whose free-wheeling spirit I will continue to admire :)
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Bosque Bill
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« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2013, 11:59:47 pm »

Re Roy Harris: Again, I agree totally. I didn't mean to digress into the Harris symphony cycle, but I have been very disappointed by the Alsop recordings, particularly a nearly moribund performance of the Sixth Symphony which, in the right hands, is an absolutely shimmering piece of Americana saluting, if I recall right, the Gettysburg Address. Keith Clark and the Pacific Symphony put out a wonderful recording of this work on the Varese Sarabande label more than a quarter-century ago that remains quite viable today. (It was issued by Varese on record, then on CD, both of which I have, and it has since been reissued on Albany, though I have not heard that release and its mastering.) But, yes, Harris (who I once interviewed) was wildly erratic. I recommend his First, Third, Fifth, Sixth and Seventh symphonies in particular -- and possibly my favorite of them all is the First, with the Sixth and Seventh close by. He also wrote three atmospheric pieces for organ and brass. The old Bay Cities label put out a CD of these grouped like a symphony, but the three really deserve a new recording. You'd think some brass group would be all over this! Great stuff!
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kyjo
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« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2013, 12:15:08 am »

Fascinating to hear that you once interviewed Harris! He must have been an interesting man, for better or worse ;D Another Harris work which was recorded by Bay Cities (a wonderful little label) that desperately needs a new recording is the Concerto for Piano and Strings, an intensely polyphonic and lyrical work that ranks among Harris' finest. It often sounds more British (think VW, Britten and the like) than American, unusually for Harris!
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tapiola
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« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2013, 12:37:53 am »

Symphonic Prelude, Festival Overture Lincoln Center, Variations on a Theme of Edward Burlingame Hill, Pine Tree Fantasy---- all downloaded from UC.  Not great sound though. I found the works mentioned somewhat sterile.  Ricercare.---Louisville Orchestra.
We need a new 3rd (his greatest symphony IMO) by a top-notch orchestra. But, Piston has been relatively well served on CD.
A complete Diamond cycle should be done. I know Schwartz came close (plus 5th on New World) but where are 6, 7, 9, 10,   11?
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« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2013, 12:44:40 am »

I could add no 5;but the old Louisville performance is wonderfully atmospheric. In fact,I like most of their recordings. No7 is another one. Kuchar was much better than Alsop and I DO play the recording now and again. You can't beat the Ormandy though!
I first heard the Keith Clark 'Gettysburg' on the radio,back in the eighties. It stayed in my mind for years. When I finally got the cd I was NOT disappointed! A very exciting performance! For once,Aaron Copland is the fill-up! When I heard Naxos were recording the fifth & sixth I thought great! Oh,dear! What a flabby performance! Alsop does a little better in the fifth. The more pastoral )not the right word really,but it's late!) atmosphere seems to suit her approach better. But while it's initially nice to hear this rather beautiful & moving symphony in modern sound;the Louisville is the one for me!
The eighth has some lovely orchestration. When I'm in the right mood I really do find the sounds Harris evokes quite gorgeous. Just a bar or two and it's so distinctively by Roy Harris!
Maybe if he had been championed by someone like Bernstein,or if there was some modern conductor of the calibre of Ormandy to support & record his cause,things could be different! The ones with the yapping could be a problem thought,I fear!! Maybe someone with a really outstanding speaking voice could help their case. But he'd have to be b***** good!
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Bosque Bill
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« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2013, 01:33:09 am »

Yes, I agree about those old Louisville recordings and their wonderful sound, lovingly recorded by Columbia engineers (and, yes, their English conductor Robert Whitney was another whom I interviewed back in the day -- a very delightful, mild-mannered gentleman). I do think the Fifth on the Louisville label is a better performance than the Naxos version. I agree that Harris might have benefited more from a top-notch conductor such as Bernstein and might have even produced less self-indulgent works as he strolled into the 1960s. At one point in the mid-1970s, a recording of the Harris symphonies complete was announced in the Soviet Union (!), but it apparently came to nothing.
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kyjo
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« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2013, 01:46:49 am »

Indeed, Bernstein would have been the perfect conductor for a Harris cycle, as evidenced by his magnificent recording of the Third. He would have connected with Harris' spirit perfectly, much more so than Alsop. Why, oh why are there no "Bernsteins" in the American music scene today :(
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« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2013, 03:56:02 am »

I do not currently have time to enter into this fascinating discussion of recorded and unrecorded American music....by Dutton or any other company.

Dutton's failure to honour Arthur Butterworth's 90th birthday this year, given that Butterworth is now the doyen of British sympghonists, is really quite disgraceful.

Can I also point out with due respect to John Foulds et al that Dutton have not recorded a single symphony(to pick my favourite genre) by Arnold Cooke, Peter Racine Fricker, Iain Hamilton, Alun Hoddinott, Daniel Jones, John McCabe or William Wordsworth: all British symphonists of genuine substance.

Yes...Dutton has done quite wonderful work on behalf of Richard Arnell and David Matthews. Arnell was a true romantic at least until around 1960 and Matthews writes lyrical music although not always easy lyricism and certainly more "demanding" music than, say, Butterworth, Cooke, Jones or Wordsworth.

Sorry........you have heard all this before from me.....but if not me then who else ;D 

And...if your riposte is well that just proves there is no demand for these composers! How many folk were demanding that almost the entire output of Richard Arnell should be recorded ??? Yet..when we heard the Dutton recordings many of us went "Wow! What magnificent music!! :) Why has it lain neglected for so long ??? ???"
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Grandenorm
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« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2013, 10:05:25 am »

I agree, Dundonnell. I really would prefer Dutton concentrated on British composers. Arthur Butterworth deserves to have a whole series devoted to his symphonies and other major orchestral works. There is a lot more music by Stanley Bate which should be recorded; also Josef Holbrooke. Others that have received no attention whatsoever include Stanley Wilson (MSS at RCM); Gaze Cooper (MSS in BMS Archive); Joseph Speaight (some MSS with family); Dora Bright (surviving MSS at RAM); Ina Boyle, apart from "The Magic Harp" (MSS at Trinity College, Dublin); Roger Sacheverell Coke (surviving MSS in the Coke-Steel Collection, Chesterfield Library), Ruth Gipps (her son, Lance Baker, the horn player has most of her MSS) - and, of course, there are lots more.
One does not wish to complain, however, and I suspect that money dictates to a large extent what Dutton can record. I suspect there were funds from the deceased's estate for the completion of the recording of Arnell's symphonies (that was certainly the case with the music of Michael Hurd). But Lewis Foreman is, as we know, a staunch advocate of British music and the best promoter we could wish for with the record companies. I'm sure he does all he can.
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Albion
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« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2013, 10:58:47 am »

I'm sure that Dutton's future plans include several pleasant surprises, but I am (slightly) disappointed that their 'International' Epoch releases have taken some of the focus away from the commitment to British composers - a couple of years ago I regarded them as the true successor to the wonderful Lyrita label. Clearly, though, there is a wider market to satisfy.

 8)

Having greatly enjoyed the two discs of John Foulds 'lighter' music from them, I must admit to looking forward to this particular release (what will be volume three) ...

 :-X

Personally, I'd welcome a more consistently focussed programming and release policy from them, especially if that meant three British discs and one international release per quarter:

a disc of late-nineteenth/ early twentieth century what could be vaguely termed British 'romanticism' (from the Mackenzie and Cowen generation to the Holbrooke and Boughton generation, including such figures as Learmont Drysdale);

two discs of mid-to-late twentieth century British composers (including Bate, Cooke, Wordsworth, Jones, Fricker, Hoddinott, Gipps, Butterworth and Brian);

something of interest from overseas.

 ;)

Well, you can but dream ...

 ::)
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"A piece is worth your attention, and is itself for you praiseworthy, if it makes you feel you have not wasted your time over it." (Sydney Grew, 1922)
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« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2013, 12:27:34 pm »

I have no disagreements with either Gareth or John on this :)

I am sure that money does enter very considerably(if not more ::)) into the equation. And, yes, I too suspect that Arnell's estate did help substantially with the recordings of his music.

John welcomes the forthcoming Foulds cd....and, again, I can appreciate that but it is interesting that my dear friend Malcolm MacDonald, who wrote a book about Foulds, has tirelessly helped to promote the music and, no doubt, has written the new cd booklet notes, feels the same way that I do and is bemused that recording d'Erlanger should take preference over so many other exceptionally fine British composers.

I have huge respect for Lewis Foreman and I know-from many years of experience-that he does give very sound advice to Dutton and has a lengthy wish-list.

Anyway....we shall see how he responds to my concerns ;D
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oldfezzi
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« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2013, 05:13:05 pm »

In the list of Americans, I didn't see Charles Wakefield Cadman or John Powell.  Also Frederic Jacobi, Benjamin Lang, Helen Hopekirk, Howard Brockway, Ernest Schelling, conductor Frederick Stock and Arthur Whiting, just to name SOME of them.  This would keep a company busy for years if anyone was interested......

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