York Bowen (1884-1961)

[ahinton]

Incidentally,did someone mention Marmite?! ;D While I do quite like Marmite,I much prefer Vegemite. Not so long ago I stocked up with seven jars of the stuff in a certain supermarket. The lady at the checkout wanted to know what Vegemite was. I explained that it was the Australian version of Marmite. Judging by the expression on her face she obviously thought I was some kind of a nut!

There really is no accounting for taste!

No, there certainly isn't! The very thought of Marmite (that's to say the one with the capital "M" - i.e. the product of that trade name - rather than the French cooking utensil, naturellement - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmite if you must) fills me with the kind of horror that could only be surpassed by its Antipodean super-perversion known as Vegemite; in fact, my ultimate culinary bête noire par excellence is an utterly disgusting combination of Vegemite, goat's cheese and papaya and even should Mæstro Blumenthal (non Felicja nor Daniel, just for the pianists here) ever create some dish from these three ingredients I'd blanch (if not be blanched) at the prospect...

What any of this has to do with the York ham of the topic I really have no idea, so I'll sensibly desist from further comment along such lines...

[Jolly Roger]

While the music of York Bowen may not be particularly memorable, I do find value in it. Certainly not spectacular or flambouyant, perhaps hearing it is more akin studying a fine painting, wood carving or sculpture...it appears to be carefully well crafted. I suspect also that hyped reviews about his music may have contributed to raised expectations of breathtaking romantic lyricism. Lowered expectations might make the best parts shine more brightly.

[cilgwyn]

Vegemite? Ooooh yummy!! ;D
Anyway! ::) Regarding York Bowen. Sorabji didn't exactly help,not to mention Stephen Hough's note with the Hyperion cd. Interesting that he doesn't seem to have bothered with him much (if at all since)after going on about how much he liked his music. Did he have a change of heart or maybe he's just been too busy? Anyone know? I seem to remember,although I may have got this wrong,that John Ogdon wasn't really too keen on Cyril Scott;avoiding the composer after his 'celebrated' Lyrita recordings of the Piano concertos. Mind you,Richard Whitehouse at 'classicalsourse.com,states otherwise. (I just googled Ogdon and Scott briefly) I had no idea that 'Moura Lympany' played the First Piano concerto between the wars!! I presume there were no broadcasts of any of these performances. A recording by Lympany would be fascinating to hear.
Having said that,I prefer his chamber and instrumental music.

http://www.yorkbowen.co.uk/index.htm

[Jolly Roger]

Yes,I don't like comparisons either. Sorabji's observations are a case in point! People read these things about Bowen's third symphony & Fourth Piano Concerto & they're thinking,'wow,what's that like?' When they finally hear the music they're almost primed for disappointment. Another one I hear is,'Mahlerian' used in connection with Holbrooke's 'Apollo and the Seaman'. Of course,that may be primarily in relation to it's duration;but again,you're putting an idea in peoples heads,and,whatever 'Apollo and the Seaman' sounds  like,I doubt if there's anything particularly Mahlerian about it. In fact,when I finally get to hear it,if I do,I hope it will sound 'Holbrookian!' I actually quite like Holbrooke,for some reason,and the last thing I want is the Rachmaninovian-Tchaikovskian meets 'Warsaw Concerto' histrionics of 'The Song of Gwyn ap Nudd! What a disappointment! I thought it was going to sound like Holbrooke!
And he's another one. Unlike Rachmaninov,whatever you think of hime;I doubt many people will listen to a piece of music they haven't heard before & say,'that sounds like Holbrooke!' Rachmaninov may have been inclined to schmaltz later in his career,but he forged a very individual sound world that influenced countless others ('ooh,that sounds like Rachmaninov!). Holbrooke,like Bowen,assimilates various influences into his own music. I hear Wagner,Strauss,Ravel,Sibelius,even (!) in his best music,but as if deflected through Holbrooke's own darkly,Gothic imagination and perhaps his most distinctive trademark;that deep,growly brass section he uses.
Unfortunately,while Holbrooke has great gift for colourful orchestration,and an appropriately wild cast of imagination;he's not quite so good at structure. That's his achilles heel,imho! Luckily his richly stocked imagination usually comes to the rescue......but,oh dear!!
Bowen,on the other hand,strikes me as a much more refined talent. I feel he has more of a feel for structure. Unfortunately,while his scores are less ramshackle than Holbrooke's,his ideas are more predictable. Even if his scores are all over the shop,at least I don't quite know what's coming next! But then Bowen was pretty urbane compared to Holbrooke who,in less pc times,might have been described as a bit of a nut;so what do I expect? Which brings me to my main problem with Bowen's music. He may be more consistent,but he's so bl**** genteel! Still,with all due respect to Bowen lovers,each to his own! :)
As to the third being a masterpiece. Well,that's just asking for trouble!! Go on transcribe it I say,and record it..........but do some Daniel Jones symphonies,Fricker,unrecorded Holbrooke,Wordsworth or even Gaze Cooper ;D (at least he's unrecorded*!) first! Oh,and more Bate!! And Holst's 'The Perfect Fool' opera!!! (way overdue!)

* except for a little bit on Cameo Classics. I would actually quite like to hear his 'West Wind' (The) Fourth Symphony! And I hadn't read this!!! Hope the link works,I'm c*** at this sort of thing!

http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/Remembering-Nottingham-Symphony-Orchestra-founder/story-17148846-detail/story.html#axzz2YwfIplBW

You are spot on raising the notion of raised expectations being capable of ruining a piece of music, especially in comparisons to other composers music.
And no more so than Sorabji's infalted hype injustice with Bowen. I once read Braunfel's music compared to being better than that of Hindemith, poor Braunfels didn't stand a chance when I heard it.
Please see my later post on Bowen's music..

[cilgwyn]

I'll have another listen to Bowen's Preludes,now. I've got Spohr's Double Quartets on at the moment,and very enjoyable they are too. He's another one,incidentally. He had the 'misfortune' ::) ;D to be very famous once;up there with Beethoven;cue for unfavourable comparisons and heightened expectations ie "Oh,it's not like (or as good as) Beethoven,etc,etc!" I find his music very satisfying indeed and no,he's not Beethoven he's Spohr! (So there,WS Gilbert! ;D)
Going back quickly ;D to Bowen. I have the sadly deleted 1994 paris 3D classics recording with Marie-Catherine Girod,that preceded the Hyperion recording. I prefer it. At the peak of the Hough Bowen Hyperion revival  people tended to forget,or artfully ignore the fact, that the 'dastardly' French actually got there first!

[dyn]

You are spot on raising the notion of raised expectations being capable of ruining a piece of music, especially in comparisons to other composers music.

Indeed—I am familiar with some of Bowen's piano music. There were quite a number of scores in my university library and several of them were prefaced with extensive biographical notes that, among other things, compared Bowen to Medtner (who was a friend and neighbour of his in his British years, I think).

Being somewhat of a Medtner nut I of course took some of those scores home (the library didn't have any recordings). And well... Bowen is not Medtner. Some of the shorter pieces were rather interesting, and perhaps could pass for the Bowen equivalent to Skazki (though quite different in many respects), but the sonatas and more extended pieces whose scores I was able to locate and sight-read I found rather thin, especially compared to Medtner's much less sight-readable but ultimately more inventive & memorable piano music. But that was of course years ago and anyway a comparison to Medtner might not be quite fair. I've heard Rakhmaninov is closer to the mark.

Apparently some of the music for viola(s) is quite nice, I've always liked violas, so I may try to sample it on NML when I have a more reliable internet connection.