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Lesser known followers of RVW


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Author Topic: Lesser known followers of RVW  (Read 1257 times)
Toby Esterhase
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« on: March 11, 2013, 11:53:03 pm »

Any suggestion?
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Dundonnell
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« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2013, 12:50:37 am »

Amongst British composers the stand-out would, probably, be Stanley Bate Smiley
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jimfin
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« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2013, 06:06:37 am »

I suppose Ruth Gipps (who studied with him and is clearly influenced), Patrick Hadley and Arthur Butterworth (less obviously influenced, but a pupil)
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Gauk
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« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2013, 08:58:25 am »

Depends what you mean by "follower". I wouldn't have associated Bate's music with RVW. One composer who has been suggested as strongly influenced by RVW is actually Joly Braga Santos in Portugal.

Incidentally, my father once had tea with RVW.
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Dundonnell
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« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2013, 04:20:54 pm »

The Stanley Bate Viola Concerto has been described(or criticised) as almost excessively VW-like. Bate was, of course, another pupil of RVW.
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Gauk
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« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2013, 05:49:51 pm »

he Stanley Bate's Viola Concerto has been described(or criticised) as almost excessively VW-like. Bate was, of course, another pupil of RVW.

I would not have said the same about his symphonies or Piano Concerto, but I take your word for it.
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Toby Esterhase
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« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2013, 12:08:16 am »

Depends what you mean by "follower". I wouldn't have associated Bate's music with RVW. One composer who has been suggested as strongly influenced by RVW is actually Joly Braga Santos in Portugal.

Incidentally, my father once had tea with RVW.

Influenced by RVW is more proper?However thanks.
 Smiley
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jimfin
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« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2013, 10:44:33 am »

Having listened again to the Bate viola concerto, I would agree that it is certainly influenced by VW (especially the first two movements), and that the symphonies are not so far as I can hear.
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Christo
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« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2013, 09:50:18 pm »

Incidentally, my father once had tea with RVW.

An important event that has escaped most biographers so far, I regret to observe. Can you please tell us about it in some more detail?  Smiley

Having listened again to the Bate viola concerto, I would agree that it is certainly influenced by VW (especially the first two movements), and that the symphonies are not so far as I can hear.

Completely agreed, though his influence in even the viola concerto appears exaggerated. I think some people refer to it as a 'tribute' to RVW and that might be the case, given their relationship. Musical references might be more unintentional - and RVW never wrote something for viola that could have served as a model, not even the Suite for viola and small orchestra of a few years before (I doubt whether Bate had ever heard it).
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… music is not only an `entertainment’, nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.  RVW, 1948
Dundonnell
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« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2013, 10:50:46 pm »

It would be rather extraordinary if the young Stanley Bate....and he was 29 years old in 1940 when he wrote his 3rd Symphony.....had not absorbed some of his influences from RVW, his teacher. There have been composers who have rejected their teachers' influences and have claimed that they learned nothing from them-including some famous British composers Grin

Having just re-listened to the Bate 3rd I can hear echoes of the RVW 4th and the influence of the Walton 1st. There are also some passages which are almost Rubbra-esque (although Rubbra had only composed three of his symphonies prior to 1940).

I am not criticising Bate or accusing him of being an RVW-epigone. Far from it Smiley But I would find it quite remarkable if one could assert that Bate was not influenced by the older composer.
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Jolly Roger
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« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2013, 07:44:52 am »

Without a doubt...Ruth Gipps is certainly a gifted follower..and no political correctness please....
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Jolly Roger
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« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2013, 07:53:43 am »

I suppose Ruth Gipps (who studied with him and is clearly influenced), Patrick Hadley and Arthur Butterworth (less obviously influenced, but a pupil)


Gipps is certainly a follower and a great unsung one..
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Gauk
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« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2013, 04:09:40 pm »

Incidentally, my father once had tea with RVW.

An important event that has escaped most biographers so far, I regret to observe. Can you please tell us about it in some more detail?  Smiley


I know this was a tongue-in-cheek comment, but nevertheless, I would reflect that this is the sort of thing one regrets one didn't ask more about when it was still possible to do so.
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Toby Esterhase
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« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2013, 11:54:43 pm »

I suppose Ruth Gipps (who studied with him and is clearly influenced), Patrick Hadley and Arthur Butterworth (less obviously influenced, but a pupil)


Gipps is certainly a follower and a great unsung one..
I esteem highly Ruth Gipps but hope for some suggestion in Galles or Scotland for instance.
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Dundonnell
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« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2013, 12:58:27 am »

William Wordsworth was English but lived in Scotland for much of his life.

Vaughan Williams certainly admired Wordsworth's music and there may be something of the older composer in Wordsworth (as well as some Sibelius).
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