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The singing soul

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guest54
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« on: December 24, 2011, 05:41:52 am »


Henry de Montherlant wrote, "The more moving the singing the more corrupt the soul."

But is that necessarily true? And if so where does it leave jolly old Johann Sebastian?
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t-p
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« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2011, 10:55:01 am »

There is not much information about Henry Montherland on the net.

Melody is very important for compositions. It is interesting to compare Handel and Bach. They always say in music history that Handel was looking forward so to say and Bach was a summary of the past polyphony.
I heard that Handel had opportunity to meet Bach but didn't want to (was afraid?).
I don't know if it is true.

Melody is important for many composers. There was an interview with Finish composer Rautavaru. He said that he will write until melodies arrive in his head.

Brahms melodies are spasmodic so to say and are difficult to understand without harmonies.
Thank you Sydney Grew. It  is very interesting topic.

Interview with Rautaavara was very interesting. He argued your point very successful.
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Neil McGowan
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« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2011, 01:40:09 pm »

I heard that Handel had opportunity to meet Bach but didn't want to (was afraid?).
I don't know if it is true.

I think the story is anecdotal?  I believe that when Handel was passing through Dresden (whose princely court had the legendary "Orchestra Of The Stars" - the highest-paid musicians in Europe) one of Bach's sons met him, and offered the invitation to meet JSB.   It's not clear why Handel may have declined... perhaps it was just one of many invitations for which his schedule permitted little time?

It's worth remembering that although now we perhaps rate Bach as highly - or more highly - than Handel, in his own time he wasn't so highly regarded.  Handel had no interest at all in church music (not one of his oratorios was ever performed in a church during his own lifetime - they were theatrical works) and perhaps saw no reason to visit the aged Kapellmeister?  I doubt Handel was afraid of Bach!  He certainly had no reason to be.
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t-p
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« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2011, 03:07:46 pm »

This is very interesting story. Thank you very much. I didn't know about it.

Bach is much more difficult composer to understand for people who are not exposed to much of classical music I think. He is professional people composer perhaps?
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Neil McGowan
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« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2011, 07:21:02 am »

Of course the irony is that the most famous composers of the time were neither Bach nor Handel - but Lotti, Porpora, Hasse, Ariosti, Telemann, Graun, and so forth... of whom really only Telemann is heard of today.  Somewhat partisan music historians (of the organ-playing fraternity) have played fast-and-loose with history, and rewritten it rather as they would have liked it to have been (ie pushing the religious works of Bach to the fore, ignoring Handel's decades spent writing Italian opera, ignoring all Italian opera etc).  As a result we barely know anything of the magnificent works of Hasse (which are quite comparable to Handel's), and Porpora is relegated in music histories to the role of "Haydn's teacher". Rather in the same way that foolish critics have rubbished Salieri (in the hope of painting yet another halo around Mozart's head), Bononcini has been thoroughly trashed by the RCO "musicologists" - even though his surviving output holds up extremely well against Handel's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l21XmJObEjo&feature=related
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t-p
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« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2011, 04:24:37 pm »

Thank you for very interesting clip. I don't know how it is possible for a male singer to sound almost like soprano.

I heard several Porpora songs and they are beautiful. I think that other composers are going to be more popular later. I noticed that there is more interest in operas of Rameau now. 
There is revival of interest in baroque music going for a while now. There is going to be reappraisal of many composers.


I was absolutely astonished by beauty of music and performance!!!
Here is Janet Baker  in the same Bononcini. It would be great to have discussion on Graun and Ariosti.  I saw Porpora and Hasse's names.
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Neil McGowan
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« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2011, 04:51:33 pm »

I think the story is anecdotal?  I believe that when Handel was passing through Dresden (whose princely court had the legendary "Orchestra Of The Stars" - the highest-paid musicians in Europe) one of Bach's sons met him, and offered the invitation to meet JSB. 

I happened to be checking some different information about Handel today in relation to something else entirely - and I found mention of this incident, only I'd misremembered the location - apparently it took place in Halle (Handel's birthplace), and not in Dresden.
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