CD Companies and the "Complete Symphonic/Orchestral Series"?

[Dundonnell]

Kyjo's enthusiasm(which I semi-share) at the news of CPO's impending release of the Weingartner 7th Symphony provoked another middle of the night thought in my head :)

One of the features of the amazing number of cds of music by less well-known composers issued by the specialist labels over the last 30 years or so-since Chandos started up, I suppose-has been the "complete series" or what starts out to be the complete series or what we are led to believe might be the........

Say what we might about CPO and the fact that we are often frustrated at the inordinate amount of time it takes for that company to get recordings onto disc and into our hands, we not only owe that company a vast debt for unearthing so much music which we would otherwise never get to hear but-with typical thorough German efficiency and commitment they do (eventually) deliver the TRUE and genuine complete series.

I suppose that if we go far enough back it all began with German composers like Hindemith and Pfitzner. CPO recorded every one of Hindemith's orchestral compositions (and he composed a lot!). Then the company spread its net wider. We got the complete George Antheil symphonies(or as near as we can probably get to them), all the Darius Milhaud, all the Heitor Villa-Lobos. With incredible dedication CPO recorded all the Benjamin Frankel and the Humphrey Searle. From Scandinavia we got the Peterson-Berger, the Ture Rangstrom, the Kurt Atterberg, the Dag Wiren, the Allan Pettersson, the Aulis Sallinen, the Christian Sinding, CPO is now embarking on the complete Edvin Kallstenius and Lars-Erik Larsson. The Panufnik series is almost complete. The Dutch are now getting the CPO-treatment with the van Gilse, the ongoing Julius Rontgen, Hendrik Andriessen, (hopefully) Henk Badings. The Austrian emigrees Krenek, Wellesz, Toch have all been "done". We are promised a Johann Nepomuk David series....in the fullness of time ::)

This IS an AMAZING achievement. If CPO sets out to deliver a complete set of a composer's symphonies or orchestral compositions then it does keep its promise.

Were that other companies had as good a track record :( Dutton-cleverly-does not advertise its intentions. We appear to be getting certain "complete series" more stealthily. Arnell is an obvious example, David Matthews another.

Chandos and Hyerion however have a chequered history. Chandos was once a more reliable company. They used to deliver on the complete series-Stanford, Vaughan Williams, Bax, William Alwyn, Malcolm Arnold, Carl Nielsen etc etc spring to mind but over the last ten years or so there have been some grave disappointments too.
There was a complete Rubbra symphonic series but what about the three concertos ??? (The same applies to Hyperion with their Robert Simpson series: all the symphonies, none of the concertos).

....and, more recently, there have been some mini-series which just "stopped" or series which started with a promise and, after a couple of releases, we heard no more. I am thinking of the Lennox Berkeley/Michael Berkeley series(in some respects an odd combination in the first place ::)) which ended with a number of Lennox's compositions unrecorded-most notably the early, fine Cello Concerto. Or the Kenneth Leighton mini-series. Or the Malcolm Williamson and Richard Rodney Bennett "series" which never got beyond a couple of discs each.

Naxos has an excellent record in many respects-the current Casella series, for example, and Naxos has re-released the complete Howard Hanson(originally on Delos) and is releasing the Maxwell Davies(originally on Collins). But, on the other hand, the company appears to have given up on the plans for a complete Roy Harris cycle.

I could go on and on (as you will have guessed ;D ;D) but others will be able to add many, many more examples, both good and less than satisfactory.

I don't necessarily blame a company which is forced into a commercial decision not to record works which they had once hoped to issue. What I do think though is that we-the faithful cd-buying public, whose hard-earned cash is being used to buy these cds and keep these companies afloat, deserve to be kept/put in the picture. We deserve public notification that a company is only going to record "x" amount of a composer's music or that they had hoped to record "y" and "z" but are not going to do so in the foreseeable future. That may not be sound commercial practice: another company may rush in where others feared to tread or where others have opted-out but, in fact, I think that it would be manifestly to each company's advantage if they (discreetly) "carved-up" the market between them, avoided unnecessary duplication and thereby served their customers better.

Sorry.......it's a Saturday night/Sunday morning and, as usual, I have ended up being carried away on one of my "obsessional rants"  ;D ;D ;D

[Dundonnell]

Strange.....no comments at all :( :(

Maybe if I wrote at less length ???

[patmos.beje]

Your comments and suggestions about carving up the classical music market so as to avoid unnecessary duplication are admirable and, on the face of it sensible, but your point about sound commercial practice, I suspect, will rule the day.  Not having sufficient information on the internal workings and operational methods of Classical CD companies I would not have the confidence to put forward the practical suggestion you make but, who knows, it might be seriously considered by the decision makers in the CD companies if you were to make it (you don't say you were thinking of doing so).

Whilst it may seem sensible for classical CD companies to speak to one another about their intentions - so we do not end up with duplicate recordings of the same work (e.g. the Vaughan Williams Viola Suite from both Hyperion and Dutton, the duplication in Casella works by Chandos and Naxos and Widor piano concertos by Hyperion and Dutton) in the commercial world it is not my experience that many competitors speak to each other and divide their projects up.  If a company thinks a CD might sell well, it may be difficult for them to imagine discussing such a project with, or conceding its recording to, a competitor company.  Most classical CD companies are in competition with each other, especially if the repertoire and composers they record (e.g. by reference to a particular nation or genre of music) are similar.

I recall Chandos, on a discussion site through which it asked for suggestions for future recordings, stating they would definitely record Stanley Bate's Third and Fourth Symphonies.  I presume this is no longer the case given Dutton's excellent releases and the very limited market for such works.  Suggestions about recording the McEwen 'Viola Concerto' and the Benjamin 'Violin Concerto' were received positively by Chandos but, given that these works have been respectively recorded by Hyperion and Dutton, I presume Chandos will not now record them (it would appear pointless to do so).

In terms of keeping classical CD enthusiasts informed of intentions, and that "we-the faithful cd-buying public…..deserve to be kept/put in the picture… [and]… public notification that a company is only going to record "x" amount of a composer's music or that they had hoped to record "y" and "z" but are not going to do so in the foreseeable future.", I have no similar feeling or expectation, albeit it is always great to hear what CD companies' future intentions are and, in an ideal world, I would appreciate knowing what you would like to know.

When a CD company does not proceed with a complete cycle, for whatever reason - commercial or otherwise - it leaves a lacunae to be filled by another, albeit the time period for it to be filled might be much longer than we enthusiasts might like.

I am grateful that many works I dreamed of hearing in my youth, but had no real expectation of encountering, have now been recorded plus many more I didn't know even existed.  Whatever their operational failings (from the perspective of classical music enthusiasts like us, desirous of hearing longed for music as soon as possible and being frustrated when cycles announced don't get completed), I am grateful to what we do have from the enterprising Classical CD companies and the classical music enthusiasts behind them, as I'm sure we all are.  What we have today in the Classical Music recording world is much better, at least from less well known and performed composers, than what we had in the 70's when my enthusiasm began.

[Hattoff]

Surprisingly, no company has managed or looks like managing to put the complete works of Prokofiev on disc. Some have started, CPO and Chandos, but they give up at the last fence.
Just saying, it's not just the lesser knowns who suffer.

[Dundonnell]

I cannot but agree with everything said by patmos.beje (and I thank him most sincerely for his lengthy reply :)).

My post was very much in the nature of a late night Saturday rant, as I said, and the sentiments expressed were more in a vague and pretty unrealistic hope rather than any real expectation.

The recent examples highlighted-the Casella duplications, the Widor piano concertos are most apposite. It would be interesting to know-though we never shall-the number of copies of the Widor sold respectively by Hyperion and Dutton; the wider availability of Hyperion discs may have swung the balance their way ??? Had the Naxos Casella discs been of markedly inferior quality then Noseda and Chandos might have won out but in fact the Naxos versions are excellent. (However I have ended up buying both simply because I am a "daft completist" ;D)

I do return again however to the "deal" apparently struck between Chandos and Naxos over recording Weinberg's complete works. If that is indeed true(as Klaus Heymann alleges) then it might be replicated elsewhere ???

Of course...you are absolutely correct in saying that the situation today is immeasurably better than it was 40 years ago and our debt to the companies concerned must outweigh any criticisms. I tried to do that in my observations about CPO. However frustrating it is to wait for that company to get around to issuing recordings we are for ever in their debt for the wonderful series they have issued and will continue to issue :)

[Balapoel]

I feel the same way. One of my frustrations is with so-called 'Complete series" that are anything but. Here are typical examples of sung composers.

Ravel complete piano music. Always exclude:
Fugues for piano (M26, 27, 32, 36, 44)
Valse in D, M14
Variations, M2
Variations, M3

Ravel orchestral:
Zaspiak-Bat, for piano and orchestra, M66

Debussy complete orchestral music. Always exclude:
Le palais du silence ou NO-JA-LI ballet, L130
3 Scenes au crepuscule for orchestra, L83

Schumann's complete piano music, always exclude:
6 Walzes (1830)
12 Burlesken (1832)
Fandango, Fugues (1832)
Fantasiestuck (Feuerigst, con fuoco) in Ab, WoO 28
Sonata (1832)
Variations on a theme of Prince Louis Ferdinand, 1828
Variations on a theme of Weber, 1831
Andante with variations on an original theme, 1832
Variations on a nocturne by Chopin, 1834

Mendelssohn, orchestral
Recitativo in d minor for piano and strings, 1820
Marches for orchestra (P9-11, 13, 16-19)

Mendelssohn, piano
Fugues (U32-33, 36-37, 46, 79, 96, 199)
Fantasie, T1
Sonata in D, S1
Sonatensatz in g minor, S2
Songs without words, U111, 124, 178, 189-190, 192
Pieces (U1-4, 6-10, 12, 18, 22, 28, 31, 34, 38-40, 45, 52, 63, 75, 81-88, 138, 140, 160, 163-198)

For such sung composers, you would think they would actually do some research.

[kyjo]

Ravel orchestral:
Zaspiak-Bat, for piano and orchestra, M66

Debussy complete orchestral music. Always exclude:
Le palais du silence ou NO-JA-LI ballet, L130
3 Scenes au crepuscule for orchestra, L83

I find these omissions particularly frustrating as well. I'd really love to hear Ravel's Zaspiak-Bat. It doesn't appear to be unfinished, in sketch form only or lost, so why hasn't it been recorded?

I have no idea why those Debussy works have not been recorded either. There's also the completion of his Nocturne for violin and orchestra (which was uploaded at UC, I believe), which has never been commercially recorded. Even Jun Markl's seemingly bottom-of-the-barrel-scraping Debussy orchestral series for Naxos didn't cover these pieces!

 ???