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Links to videos of compositions by little-known composers


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Author Topic: Links to videos of compositions by little-known composers  (Read 2554 times)
the Administration
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« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2018, 02:37:47 pm »

Dundonnell, October 16:

I have posted in the "Action taken by Administrators" thread in the Announcements section.

I appreciate that is a "closed thread" to which members cannot reply. As I have said several times recently members who wish to communicate their views can do so by posting publicly or by private message to me as "Dundonnell" or as "Administrator" or to Maris (Latvian) equally in either capacity.

After a week away from home and a week of enforced absence from this forum I would hope to see it return to its focus on the music in which we are interested and the music to which we may wish to draw the attention of others.

I understand the nature and content of the views expressed above regarding You Tube videos. My task now will be to correctly identify those which are copied directly from commercial cds and to take appropriate action.

If I delete these-in line with what I believe to be a general consensus amongst the membership and within the spirit of this forum's policy and accepted practice over many years-then that will mean the deletion of the entire thread and the lengthy, thoughtful comments made above. To lose these comments would be painful (to me as well as, obviously, their authors!). I cannot simply delete the first post. Ideally I would like to move all the comments into a new thread. This would retain all the benefits of the insights of the members who posted.

As ever, I would appreciate any observations members might wish to make.

Relm1, October 17:
Quote from: Dundonnell on October 16, 2018, 05:38:50 pm
I would hope to see it return to its focus on the music in which we are interested and the music to which we may wish to draw the attention of others.

This.
Quote from: Dundonnell on October 16, 2018, 05:38:50 pm
If I delete these-in line with what I believe to be a general consensus amongst the membership and within the spirit of this forum's policy and accepted practice over many years-then that will mean the deletion of the entire thread and the lengthy, thoughtful comments made above. To lose these comments would be painful (to me as well as, obviously, their authors!). I cannot simply delete the first post. Ideally I would like to move all the comments into a new thread. This would retain all the benefits of the insights of the members who posted.

As ever, I would appreciate any observations members might wish to make"

This is a very straight forward topic and I don't get the debate.  I agree with you that this site should remain compliant with copyright laws and not post music that is commercially available unless the posted link is owned by the copyright holder (eg: Naxos posting a Naxos release) where they do receive a form of revenue stream in their business model.  Some of us who visit this site are professional musicians who make a living through music and actually post our music on youtube or spotify where we get revenue (though meager).  If someone else posts the link we lose that revenue.  The discussion ends there.  They stole it.  I have the right to decide if its worth pursuing it because in most cases the revenue is extremely modest but still it is theft.

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« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2018, 02:38:43 pm »

The Administration, October 17:

We have a policy on this forum, stated and re-stated, certainly since I became a member six years ago.

If a member uploads the contents of a commercially available cd to Mediafire and then posts a link to that upload making it possible for members (indeed inviting members) to download the music free of charge we politely request that the member removes the link. This has been done regularly over the years. Members have complied with such requests. There has been a consensus that it is the right thing to do.

The same policy applies to You Tube videos IF the uploads to YT are commercially available cds. It does not apply to uploads here of music recorded from the radio or from out of print LPs, whether those uploads are on Mediafire or on YT. I have uploaded hundreds of pieces of the second category to Mediafire and made them available and I have downloaded thousands of pieces from such sources.

As I said before, what goes on at You Tube is their business. I have no idea if there are any "arrangements" between the companies issuing cds and You Tube. What I cannot imagine is that a small, independent record label which depends for its survival on making at least a minimal profit and which issues cds for sale or which makes it possible for customers to download the music on payment of a sum of money can benefit from individuals posting their cds online and making possible downloading for free. This practice is, in my personal opinion and that of the administrators of this forum, potentially ruinous to the record labels concerned. It will kill them commercially. We could forget getting so much of the rare, obscure composers and their music so many of us enjoy!

I have begun the process of removing links to commercially available cds from this site. I am trying to do this carefully, removing only those links which do not comply with our policy. In some cases it has not proved possible to do this as selectively as I would have wished because of a mix of commercial and non-commercial recordings in the same post. Current members can be reassured that their posts are not being "interfered with".

The Alfano symphonies's links at the beginning of this thread will "have to go". I shall however copy and paste all the comments made by members into a separate thread so that none of the discussion is lost.

To save me extra work I am locking this thread. This does not mean that members who wish to express further views cannot do so elsewhere. I just very respectfully request 24-36 hours to carry out the necessary last checking and to copy and paste all the valuable comments made by members.

As ever, the thanks of the Administration for your patience and understanding through what has been a difficult time for this forum.
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« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2018, 02:51:46 pm »

As members will perhaps appreciate this transcription (copying and pasting!) has involved a little effort.

It has not been done with the intention of re-opening the debate.

It has been done to try to ensure that no contribution made by members should be lost due to the deletion of the original thread.

Members who wish to continue to discuss the issue are free to do so but it would be helpful if such contributions were made here rather than elsewhere. It would also be much appreciated if comments offered fresh perspectives rather than rehearsing "accusations" which were made at the time and which were refuted. From many private messages received and from comments made publicly there does seem a consensus that it might be time to "move on" Smiley
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« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2018, 05:09:11 pm »


 From many private messages received and from comments made publicly there does seem a consensus that it might be time to "move on" Smiley

Has Sydney Grew been allowed back in the forum (albeit using different names)?

Not that I'm against it, but do suggest the condition of such a return be the "moving on" you refer to.
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« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2018, 02:39:41 am »

One might guess at or speculate about the "real identity" of any member of an internet forum. Members join with a username. They may, it has been suggested, have more than one username on the same forum.

If a particular member leaves or appears to leave a forum, for whatever reason, that member may in fact still be present under another username or may rejoin using a different name.

These are not matters over which an administrator has any control. All that can be done is to try to ensure that posts, from whomsoever they originate, conform to forum policies and practices. If posts consistently or persistently do not do so then appropriate action has to be carefully considered and discussed by the administrators and, if necessary, implemented. These responsibilities are most definitely not taken lightly and have involved and will involve lengthy consideration and discussion.
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« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2018, 03:31:09 am »

Which renders kind of futile all the "grave deliberation" over whether to revoke Sydney Grew's membership here (apparently done).

I mean, what's the point if that person can so easily return simply by choosing a different name?
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« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2018, 02:29:13 pm »

I am sorry that you have chosen to use the phrase "kind of silly" in relation to the action taken by the Administrators. You are of course fully entitled to think that but Maris (Latvian) very carefully explained the reasons for that action in his post as administrator on October 9th. (Maris is unwell at present.)

Yes, there was a considerable amount of "grave deliberation" regarding the decison. You would, I presume, expect nothing less in relation to such a decision by the administrators of any forum, particularly if it concerned the particular member in question. I should add that the decision involved consultation with others and representations made by other members.

What we were not aware of at that time was the issue of "sockpuppets":
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet)

It appears that this is an internet phenomenon. Neil McGowan and others have suggested that our membership includes sockpuppets.

This might appear to potentially render the action taken on October 9th "futile" (rather than "silly"). I would continue to defend the decision as justifiable. Administrators have to make decisions in circumstances which had become extreme with posts which were irrational, insulting, abusive and were bringing the forum into disrepute and deterring new members. We take our responsibilities seriously. Exercising "power" is not what we are about!

The latest thread started by "Maud" suggests that the person (or persons) involved has launched a new forum elsewhere and is using that to post the same YT videos deleted from this forum. This is, obviously, a matter for him/her/them.

Links to such a site are however simply a device to get around our policy and practice here. For that reason-and that reason alone- I am deleting the thread in question. We shall do our best-however reactive rather than proactive that best may be- to deal with "sockpuppetry".
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« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2018, 04:24:29 pm »

I agree with you that "futile" is a much better choice of words than the "silly" of my original post (now edited).

A fascinating Wiki article about "sockpuppetry" that is, BTW.
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« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2018, 12:03:54 pm »

One way the article suggests to recognise sockpuppet is by their use of a particular style of expression. This would include spelling and archaic usages.

Point taken😁

.....and what I would now really like to do is to return to posting about music and composers who have come to my attention in the last month or so Smiley
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« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2018, 03:58:06 pm »

Without you as chief poster (and the responses from others that stimulates) there's little for you to do as chief Administrator (the Sydney Grew affair aside).
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« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2018, 05:28:46 pm »

Without you as chief poster (and the responses from others that simulates) there's little for you to do as chief Administrator (the Sydney Grew affair aside).

"chief Administrator" ? I do not recognise or accept that description Smiley The Administration is a joint responsibility. There is no "chief".
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« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2018, 08:23:40 am »

As members will perhaps appreciate this transcription (copying and pasting!) has involved a little effort.
Sorry, but you are certainly not an administrator of this forum. As you well know, you were dismissed on September 28th because of your threats to delete other people's posts. Your unsuitability as an administrative assistant for me became clear at that point.
You are now using a stolen password, and have no authority.

Nor are you any longer even a member of this forum. You were expelled as a member on the 9th of October because you were sitting on the stolen passsword and childishly refusing to hand it over to the forum owner.

Since Baziron and I started this forum in 2009 our motto has been "freedom and delight". There is no place for deleters here. Since the year dot deleters on the internet have always been despised and abhorred.

You have tried to hide the true facts about this by removing posts and even by removing the forum owner's account. Such childish actions have just wrecked our forum (and have also caused the loss of many of my friends' private email addresesses). But stealing the password does not make the forum yours!

We at this forum have never had a policy of protecting the activities of record companies, and to say that we have is a downright lie.

I want to know 1) how you obtained a pirate password for this forum, and 2) why you are sitting on it and refusing to reveal it.

In 2011, when I made space available here for people affected by a change of policy at the Unsung Composers, the owners of that forum gave me several serious warnings about you and your behaviour. But clearly I was too trusing at that time, and decided to give you a chance.

As soon as this affair is cleared up I intend to start three new boards: one for string quartets, another for piano quintets, and a third devoted to other chamber music. People who want to discuss record companies and their doings will have to start separate threads.

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« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2018, 11:53:04 am »

Members had to endure weeks of this nonsense. For the last month the forum has returned to the pattern of posting and to the tenor of posts to which members were accustomed prior to that.

What we cannot permit is the re-opening of an exchange which it would be grossly inaccurate to describe as discussion or debate.  The assertions regarding "stolen or pirate passwords", "dismissed administrators", "unsuitability", "warnings from the owners of Unsung Composers" are as offensive as they are manifestly untrue.

The current administrators have every reason to believe that they continue to retain the confidence and support of the overwhelming majority, if not all, of the membership. Many members have indicated this either publicly or by private message.

We have no intention of responding further to irrational and outrageous allegations. We responded in very considerable detail and as calmly as was possible at the time the allegations were first made.

Neil McGowan suggested several weeks ago that "Henrietta Pedal" was a "sockpuppet" for the former administrator. The fact that a member with this name had not posted here since October 2017 would tend to indicate that Neil may well be correct.

In the circumstances and for obvious reasons immediate and decisive action is being taken in an attempt to cut this off at source.
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« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2018, 12:38:39 pm »

To be continued...............?!! Roll Eyes Grin
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« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2018, 01:33:59 pm »

To be continued...............?!! Roll Eyes Grin

Not if we can prevent it!
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