Joseph Holbrooke (1878-1958)

[Dundonnell]

Having studied Albion's magnificent listings of Holbrooke's compositions on Wikipedia, would I be correct in saying that the following works are extant and unrecorded:

Symphony “Les Hommages”
Symphony No.1 “Homage to E.A. Poe” for soloists, chorus and orchestra
Symphony No.2 “Apollo and the Seaman” for male chorus and orchestra
Symphony No.3 “Ships”
Symphony No.5 “Wild Wales” for brass band
Symphony No.6 “Old England” for military band
Symphony No.7 “Al Aaraaf” for strings
Symphony No.8 “Dance Symphony” for piano and orchestra
Symphonietta “The Sleeper” for wind and brass
Piano Concerto No.2 “L’Orient”
Violin Concerto “The Grasshopper”
Double Concerto for Clarinet, Bassoon and Orchestra “Tamerlane”
Quadruple Concerto for Flute, Clarinet, Cor Anglais, Bassoon and Orchestra
Dance Suite for piano and small orchestra
Tragic March for Horn and Orchestra
Variations on “Auld Lang Syne” for orchestra
Fantasie “The Wild Fowl” for orchestra
Suite “Dreamland” for orchestra
Suite “Bogey Beasts” for orchestra
“Cambrian Suite” for orchestra
“Hymn to Caridwen” for orchestra
Ballet “The Masque of the Red Death”
Ballet “The Moth and the Flame”
Ballet Suite “Pierrot”
Ballet Music “Bronwen”
Imperial March for orchestra
Suite No.1 for string orchestra
Suite No.2 for string orchestra
“Caradoc’s Dream” for string orchestra
National March for chorus and orchestra
“Queen Mab” for chorus and orchestra

[kyjo]

That's quite enough to cover plenty of well-filled CDs ;D! And we could use better recordings of the symphonic poems that were recorded by Marco Polo as well! I thought that the orchestral parts were lost for Symphony no. 8-were they discovered recently?

[Albion]

would I be correct in saying that the following works are extant and unrecorded:

Yes, as far as I know these are still extant either as scores or parts. The Fantasie Dylan is the same work as the Prelude Dylan (Holbrooke used both descriptions at different times) which was recorded by Marco Polo - in fact the actual Prelude to the opera itself is comparatively brief. We also need a first-class recording of The Bells.

 :)

we could use better recordings of the symphonic poems that were recorded by Marco Polo

Definitely! Those renditions were neither models of orchestral virtuosity nor of acoustic subtlety.

 :P

I thought that the orchestral parts were lost for Symphony no. 8-were they discovered recently?

No, all that appears to exist is a two-piano score held at Cambridge University Library - this manuscript also provides an alternative designation of the work as "Piano Concerto No.3".

 :(

[kyjo]

Thanks, John :). I though Colin's list also denoted that the orchestral parts for the pieces he listed are extant, since he is an orchestral kind of person ;D!

[Dundonnell]

"...an orchestral sort of person" ;D ;D ;D

You could say that not unfairly ;D It can be quite a small orchestra.....and it can be accompanying a singer or a choir or a solo instrument :) I can even appreciate some unaccompanied choral music :)

Opera ???  Yes...IF it was written by Wagner or Vaughan Williams......otherwise no.

Chamber or instrumental or songs.....no :( :(

Life is just too short. I made my mind up long decades ago to focus my musical interests on 19th-20th century orchestral music and within that area to explore as widely as possible. My decision....my loss....regrets ??? No.

[kyjo]

No need to feel bad for your likes and dislikes, Colin :). And I'm sorry if my comment offended you in any way :-[! As for me, I enjoy much chamber and solo piano music, but just not as much as orchestral music. As for opera, unaccompanied choral music, art songs, and even solo organ music-I'm afraid that I've missed the boat there :(...But we're way off-topic ;D!

[jimfin]

Wagner or Vaughan Williams for opera is a very individual sort of taste, but one I could sympathise with. I love the VW operas, especially 'Hugh the Drover', 'Sir John in Love' and 'The Pilgrim's Progress'.

[cilgwyn]

I must admit I love those 'Bronwen' excerpts & all the bits & pieces on the Marco Polo cd. Yet Wagner bores me stiff! Terrible,isn't?! Wagner v Holbrooke? I should be ashamed of myself! :-[ ;D
I do enjoy the Marco Polo cds,actually. The orchestra seems to chug along & there is that wierd,boxy,almost 'trade mark',Marco Polo acoustic;but there is a certain pioneering determination there (the conductor,perhaps) which got my enthusiasm for Holbrooke going & I'm grateful for that!
Mind you,it's pretty awful,really! ;D

Remember the Marco Polo cd of Bantock's Hebridean Symphony? I remember the shock of hearing the Hyperion recording. The brass just blazed out. It was like hearing a completely different work. Which is interesting,because one of the things I enjoy about Holbrooke's music,even in a rather ramshackle work like 'The Pit & the Pendulum',is his use of the brass. And being from Wales,another reason why I would love to hear his Fifth symphony!

Incidentally,while I am of the opinion that life is far too short to listen to only one genre of music;I can't help feeling that the reason why Dundonnell knows far more about orchestral music than I ever will is due entirely to his decision to concentrate on one particular area!

PS: I like VW's operatic efforts better than Wagner's,too! :o ;D
 

[Dundonnell]

You are reinforcing the point that it is so sad that unfamiliar repertoire is often committed to disc by the smaller companies using orchestras totally unaccustomed to the idiom and keen and enthusiastic but not particularly inspired conductors and recorded on the cheap. The result is a recording which may give one some idea of the nature of a work but cannot reveal just how good it could sound if performed with more polish and panache.

It its early days and, to some extent, still today Marco Polo/Naxos used Eastern European/Russian orchestras who struggled with such repertoire-the Havergal Brian 2nd is one example but, most notoriously, in my opinion, the set of Malipiero symphonies recorded by the Moscow Symphony Orchestra :(

It is a testimony to the rising standards of orchestral playing across the world that this is getting less of an issue these days. There was a time when, again for example, I would have doubted the capacity of the National Symphony Orchestra of Ireland to play a piece to its full potential but it is now a first-class band. So too all the British orchestras. Give a professional orchestra a score and they can now virtually sight-read it onto disc ;D

It is still however remarkable how a conductor who really believes in a piece can transform it. That was Beecham's great genius..so too Sir Adrian Boult. There are young conductors around who can do that but instead they are asked to conduct yet another performance of a Mahler symphony ::)

Your final point is, of course, also quite correct :) I DO have a very wide knowledge of the orchestral music of the last century but-by definition it is "wide" rather than "deep". I cannot discuss comparative versions of a particular composition in the way that others here and elsewhere are capable. I rely on the critics in IRR or reputable reference books for that. That is just the way it is ;D As I said, I have no regrets :)

[jimfin]

I will always be grateful to Marco Polo for recording the Holbrooke at all: I remember a time when practically nothing had ever been done and I was desperate to hear some. Same with the Havergal Brian. Companies like Dutton have really raised the standard, I think, which makes me so glad about them doing Havergal Brian, who really, really needs the best performers to shine. Mind, the Marco Polo Gothic was a pretty amazing achievement at the time.

[Dundonnell]

You are perfectly correct to commend Marco Polo for its enterprise :) The company went where virtually no other company had gone in seeking out obscure repertoire.

And-in relation to Eastern European orchestras-the Gothic recording WAS a triumph :) :)

[cilgwyn]

Indeed! I've been knocking the Marco Polo Gothic on the gmg HB thread,but in all fairness,it was a tremendous achievement!
Having said that,I'm afraid I won't be playing it much!!

Nowadays,everyone seems to find allot of reasons to rubbish those Marco Polo releases,but I can vividly recall the excitement of leafing through the late lamented Gramophone (still around,but not as we knew it!) for their ad,wondering,with bated breath,what esoteric fare they had dug out for our delectation? In their own way,they built up a momentum for the glories that were to follow!
And,who knows? Maybe an obscure East European orchestra could have given us some Daniel Jones symphonies,boxy acoustics & all?! I'm sure I would have coped!

Actually,if you compare their Holbrooke cds to their releases of Bantock & Cyril Scott,they probably weren't too bad. In the case of the Scott release,if I hadn't heard the Lyrita recordings I probably wouldn't have bothered again....or at least,not for a while. Conversely,the Holbrooke cds had me gagging for more! I even sent a 'fan letter' to Gwydion Brooke,who sent me a very nice letter back & a free Holbrooke Lp! I was SO chuffed!
  Ironically,it was the Hyperion cd of his First Piano Concerto that disappointed me. Although,that was because of the music itself. In my opinion (and some others,apparently) not one of his most characteristic works! In fact,if that had been my first experience of Holbrooke I might not have felt quite as enthusiastic!! ;D

[Dundonnell]

Again....agree completely :) :)  Whatever view you may have of the Marco Polo Gothic the joy of actually hearing the work on cd for the first time will never leave me :)

The Holbrooke Piano Concerto No.1 is amongst his weakest works in my opinion. Now....if Hyperion were to run a "Romantic Symphonies" series to match their Piano. Violin. Cello series we might actually get to hear more of the Holbrooke symphonies ;D They wouldn't even need to be paying the soloist's fee.

[guest54]

A little more information about the "Illuminated Symphony" - Holbrooke's concentrated combination of poetry and music:

[David Carter]

Well that's quite a remarkable thing and something it would be very interesting to see. I was particularly interested to see not only the inclusion of a Euphonium alongside the Tuba but two ad-lib Sarrusophones an instrument I have only ever come across in the orchestral scores of Sorabji where (in the 2nd Symphony 'Jami') one is placed alongside the contrabassoon. I wonder what their role in the "Illuminated Symphony" may have been? Their inclusion under "Brass" suggests they where perhaps meant to double the Tuba and Euphonium.

Do you have the score Stanley?