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1  Little-known music of all eras / New recordings / Re: Ruth Gipps symphonies on: August 14, 2018, 12:24:41 pm
Quote
As you expressed your admiration for the music of Ruth Gipps let me also do so for your (I assume) compatriot Janis Ivanovs whose terrific 11th Symphony is one of the major gaps (in my opinion) in the CD catalogue, along with Tjeknavorian's LSO recording of Khachaturian's 1st Symphony (RCA, not the far inferior ASV recording), the Gruner-Hegge recording of Klaus Egge's magnificent 1st Symphony (Norwegian HMV LP), Gordon Jabob's Concerto for Two Pianos (EMI LP) and Bax's 3rd Symphony (LSO, Downes RCA LP).

Yes, Ivanovs' 11th Symphony is indeed a fine work. It's a shame that neither Cameo Classics nor Marco Polo / Naxos ever completed their Ivanovs cycles. Personally, my favorite Ivanovs symphonies are #s 4, 6, 10 and 17, but I love many of the others as well.

I don't think I've ever heard either of the Tjeknavorian recordings of Khachaturian's 1st. I have Gauk's and the composer's versions. A fine work, in any event.

Yes, I love Bax 3 with Downes (and the LP filler, The Happy Forest).

My real name is Maris and I am indeed Latvian.
OT
Just to say Maris that, of the ones I know, my favourite Ivanovs's scores are symphonies 2,3,4,5,8,11 and especially the movingly valedictory (in my opinion) Symphony 20 which exists not only on Naxos but in an impressively packaged release from the Latvian Musical Information Centre. I also like the film score for 'Late Frost in Spring'. As soon as the Gipps release shows up I will be back 'on piste'.
2  Little-known music of all eras / New recordings / Re: Ruth Gipps symphonies on: August 14, 2018, 12:16:39 pm
I understand the point about the influences on Braga Santos of RVW and Sibelius, Jeffrey. But the music is not simply reheated VW or Sibelius. There is clearly the influence of Portugese folk music as well but in addition there is an almost American romantic swaggering self-confidence about BS's music. Yet he surely could not have been familiar with Roy Harris or Aaron Copland?

Indeed, who was he familiar with?? After all the Symphony No.1 was written in 1946. Braga Santos was 22 years old in 1946. When World War Two broke out in 1939 the composer was 15. What was the situation in Portugal during the war? The country was officially neutral but retained its long-standing friendship with Great Britain. What music was broadcast on Portugese radio during the war? The young composer clearly did not travel outside his country during the war. Did he study scores? If so, by which composers? These questions have intrigued me ever since I first heard the music. (No doubt Alvaro Cassuto could provide answers and I am tempted to try to contact him!)

It is almost as though somehow the young Portugese composer had absorbed every sort of romantic influence from around the world-from the USA, from Respighi, Bloch, Sibelius, RVW etc etc mixed those with Portugese folk influences and come up with an amalgam free from any inhibitions, free from any preconceived ideas of where contemporary music should be going and simply threw himself into symphonic music with youthful abandon. Because ultimately what shines through is his sheer unbridled self-confident enthusiasm.
If it is inspired-and I think that the early music IS inspired-then is that "inspiration" wholly derivative? I wonder!

(and btw I know that this thread is supposed to be about the symphonies of Ruth Gipps but she too-at the time of the Symphony No.2-was a young, romantic composer.....so the connection is not entirely off piste Grin)
OT
A very thoughtful consideration Colin which I read with much interest. I may have told you that I taught a Portuguese girl whose family knew Braga Santos. Apparently her grandmother threw Braga-Santos and his friends out of the house for 'making too much noise'. Isn't there a quote about prophets being unappreciated in their home country? The girl kindly presented me with a boxed set of Braga Santos orchestral music. I think that her family were amazed that her teacher had heard of him and appreciated his music. Yes, I'm sure that Portuguese folk music was a huge influence.
3  Little-known music of all eras / New recordings / Re: Ruth Gipps symphonies on: August 13, 2018, 10:36:18 pm
Well put, Jeffrey and Colin. I completely agree.

Personally, I'm sick to death of "the best" categorizations. Whenever someone starts a discussion with "Who do you think is the best composer/pianist/etc." or "What do you think is the best symphony/concerto/etc." I cringe inwardly. As if there's a universal set of objective criteria by which all can be judged. We all have our biases, preferences, range of experience, etc., that influence our conclusions. Also, our tastes change over time, based on experience, exposure, point in life, etc. For instance, when I was younger I had little use for Robert Schumann apart from a very few of his works. Now, I've come to adore his music. I've always felt his stature as a "great" composer was deserved, but his music just didn't speak to me. Likewise, Franz Liszt.

However, I'm happy to enter into a discussion that begins "Who are your favorite composers/pianists/etc." or "what are your favorite symphonies/concerti/etc." when that discussion is civil and respectful of the participants' tastes.

Vague, undefined generalities such as "relevant" or "best" are annoying at best, infuriating when used repeatedly without explanation. One of the great features of this forum has been the respect we accord one another's opinions. I left another forum a number of years ago when I had the audacity to express my deep respect for a certain composer's music and another member publicly took me to task for my obvious lack of taste and erudition in taking such a "stupid" position, since in their mind this composer's music was utterly useless, worthless, derivative, and poorly written. The administrator saw nothing wrong with this (no, it wasn't UC). So, I hope we are able to maintain this prized civility here. We don't need anyone here who can only bolster their own fragile self-esteem by denigrating and demeaning others and their opinions.

And, for the record, I very much like Ruth Gipps' music.

Well, I agree with you as well Latvian (sorry, I don't know your name). I've never really understood the intolerance which too often exists on online sites. I also think that written messages (as in texts and emails as well) can often seem opinionated without the more subtle nuances of actual face to face conversation. These music websites have cost me a small fortune but, through them, I have discovered so many wonderful composers whose existence I would otherwise be unaware of and made some genuine friendships as well.

As you expressed your admiration for the music of Ruth Gipps let me also do so for your (I assume) compatriot Janis Ivanovs whose terrific 11th Symphony is one of the major gaps (in my opinion) in the CD catalogue, along with Tjeknavorian's LSO recording of Khachaturian's 1st Symphony (RCA, not the far inferior ASV recording), the Gruner-Hegge recording of Klaus Egge's magnificent 1st Symphony (Norwegian HMV LP), Gordon Jabob's Concerto for Two Pianos (EMI LP) and Bax's 3rd Symphony (LSO, Downes RCA LP).
4  Little-known music of all eras / New recordings / Re: Ruth Gipps symphonies on: August 13, 2018, 10:25:12 pm
I consider music to be of personal 'relevance' if it moves me emotionally or if can relate to it is some way - although I wouldn't expect others to share my views. For example I consider the music of Braga-Santos (well, at least the early symphonies), Stanley Bate, Ruth Gipps, Ricard Arnell, Eduard Tubin,  Camargo Guanieri, John Kinsella, Harold Truscott, Godfried Devreese, Klaus Egge etcetc to be relevant to me in a way that the piano concertos of Mozart or most operas are not - whilst recognising the greatness of major composers whose music means little to me.

I'm greatly looking forward to receiving the Gipps CD - one of the most exciting releases on Chandos in recent times.



Well said, Jeffrey!

We all have our personal favourites-composers who "speak to us". These are not necessarily to be counted among the most famous or "the greatest" of composers (define that how you will). One of the joys about belonging to a music forum-such as this-is to learn about the composers who mean a lot to others and, if one has the inclination, to sample their music for oneself.

I cannot recall now when I first read about the music of Braga Santos but when I first heard the music for myself it was a revelation. Is it orginal? No, I don't suppose it is. Is it derivative? Yes, I suppose so (although it remains a mystery to me how Braga Santos had acquainted himself with the music of other, similar composers in wartime Portugal).
Has it had an influence on other composers? Extremely doubtful (certainly outside Portugal).

In that sense is his music "relevant" to the future course of musical development? No, it is almost certainly not. Is it therefore, by extrapolation, "redundant", superfluous etc. Of course not. Listening to it enhances my life.....as it does that of others who love the music.

If it means nothing to others then that is the nature of musical experience. I don't "get" the music of Harrison Birtwistle. Doesn't mean he isn't a composer of genuine importance and that I cannot respect those who consider him a musical genius.

I wonder, Colin, if Vaughan Williams was an influence on Braga Santos. I suspect that BS would have come across the music of VW either on the Portuguese radio or in concert. After all, isn't Portugal the oldest ally of Britain's? Only semi-serious about this but who knows? Sibelius also I think who would have been at the height of his reputation in Braga Santos's formative years I think.
5  Little-known music of all eras / New recordings / Re: Ongoing CPO projects. on: August 13, 2018, 10:17:49 pm
Quote
A modern recording of Klaus Egge's fine First Symphony would be great. The Karsten Andersen on Philips/Aurora is only so-so with a boxed-in recording and I don't think that the earlier but superior Gruner-Hegge recording will ever be reissued on CD.

Yes, that would be great!

Wishful thinking on my part I suspect - but, you never know!
 Smiley
6  Little-known music of all eras / New recordings / Re: Ongoing CPO projects. on: August 13, 2018, 02:11:26 pm
With the three Lars-Erik Larsson symphonies now released CPO's "ongoing series" would now seem to be:

1) Johann Nepomuk David (Austria-Germany): four symphonies released out of eight.
2) Julius Rontgen (Netherlands): eleven symphonies released out of twenty-two extant.
3) Henk Badings (Netherlands): eight symphonies released out of fifteen.
4) Louis Glass (Denmark): two symphonies released out of six.

The David are being recorded by the Vienna Radio Symphony Orchestra under Johannes Wildner....but at snail's pace. The Rontgen and Badings continuation depends I suppose on the conductor David Porcelijn's commitment to them.

I am pretty pessimistic about:

5) Rudolph Simonsen (Denmark): two symphonies released out of four. These were recorded in 2006 and released in 2009 but the conductor was Israel Yinon who died in 2015.
6) Nathanael Berg (Sweden): three symphonies released out of five. These were recorded in 2006-2007 and released in 2009-2010. The conductor was Ari Rasilainen who does not seem to do much for CPO these days.
7) Edvin Kallstenius (Sweden): one symphony released (to some acclaim) out of five. However that recording by the Helsingborg Symphony Orchestra under Frank Beermann, released in 2014, was actually recorded in October 2007.

I may be wrong but my gut feeling is that CPO has lost interest in these three composers.

Maybe they should take up the Norwegian Klaus Egge, the Swede Hilding Rosenberg, the Finn Ernest Pingoud, the Pole Grazyna Bacewicz Huh??

A modern recording of Klaus Egge's fine First Symphony would be great. The Karsten Andersen on Philips/Aurora is only so-so with a boxed-in recording and I don't think that the earlier but superior Gruner-Hegge recording will ever be reissued on CD.
7  Little-known music of all eras / New recordings / Re: Ruth Gipps symphonies on: August 13, 2018, 01:04:40 pm
I consider music to be of personal 'relevance' if it moves me emotionally or if can relate to it is some way - although I wouldn't expect others to share my views. For example I consider the music of Braga-Santos (well, at least the early symphonies), Stanley Bate, Ruth Gipps, Ricard Arnell, Eduard Tubin,  Camargo Guanieri, John Kinsella, Harold Truscott, Godfried Devreese, Klaus Egge etcetc to be relevant to me in a way that the piano concertos of Mozart or most operas are not - whilst recognising the greatness of major composers whose music means little to me.

I'm greatly looking forward to receiving the Gipps CD - one of the most exciting releases on Chandos in recent times.

8  Little-known music of all eras / New recordings / Re: Golovanov as composer cd-set on: August 07, 2018, 06:24:36 am
His own compositions



about him:
http://ngolovanov.ru/
How extraordinary- didn't know he was a composer. Wish he'd recorded Miaskovsky's 6th Symphony as he conducted the legendary premiere. I love his Rachmaninov and Glazunov symphonic recordings.
9  Little-known music of all eras / New recordings / Re: More Braga Santos on Naxos on: August 05, 2018, 11:00:57 pm
Great news -- I love his music!

+1
Very exciting news and I like the cover image as well!
10  Little-known music of all eras / New recordings / Re: Ruth Gipps symphonies on: August 05, 2018, 01:14:01 pm
just hearing the new chandos disk with the Gipps symphonies. as expected very disappointing. dull music which sounds like i heard a hundred times ago, simply redundant. sorry, but this isn't really relevant music.

Relevant to what?
11  Little-known music of all eras / New recordings / Re: Lyatoshinsky's Third Symphony on: August 05, 2018, 01:13:06 pm
I already have the Naxos releases of these works; probably the Chandos recording is more sophisticated...

I have the Mravinsky version as well but I like to work so much that I'm happy to have multiple recordings.
+1 on Russian Disc.

Here's an extract from the rehearsal at the Poole Lighthouse. It suggests that it will be a very powerful and dramatic performance:
https://youtu.be/FFpaOn-hlL0

12  Little-known music of all eras / New recordings / Lyatoshinsky's Third Symphony on: August 04, 2018, 08:47:02 am
Delighted to hear that Chandos will be releasing this excellent work in January 2019. Kiril Karabits identified this work as one of the greatest 20th Century symphonies and he will be conducting it with the Bournemouth SO. The coupling will be 'Grazhyna' my other favourite score by the underrated Ukrainian composer.
13  Little-known music of all eras / New recordings / Re: Lars-Erik Larsson Vol.3 from CPO on: July 28, 2018, 08:16:02 am
Looking forward to hearing this new release in due course.
14  Little-known music of all eras / New recordings / Re: Ruth Gipps symphonies on: July 25, 2018, 11:23:02 am
For a long time I have hoped for a recording of Symphony 4 - so this is great news indeed.
15  Little-known music of all eras / Discussion of obscure composers / Re: (Some) Twentieth Century British Symphonies not yet on cd: an update on: July 22, 2018, 08:46:46 am
Amended to take account of the forthcoming Ruth Gipps's Symphony No.4 from Chandos Smiley
Yes, that's great news Colin!
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