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1  Little-known music of all eras / Discussion of obscure composers / Re: SOME unrecorded British Piano Concertos, 1934-94 on: June 03, 2019, 03:34:11 pm
Although I read relm1's post last night I decided to sleep on it before responding. My initial reaction-which has only marginally altered-was that it was both offensive and ignorant.

Let me now patiently reply to the points made.

"the point of your lists is that you are listing composers that YOU care about".
No. The "point" of my lists is to highlight particular musical "issues" and, hopefully, inform others who may share my interests. No more than that. They will be of no interest to those who do not....and I accept that. On any forum members will have diverse tastes and areas of interest.
Nor do I simply list composers that I "CARE" about....whatever that may mean.

"when you define a composer as less well-known"
I was not aware that I have ever explicitly done so. I have, very obviously, highlighted composers who are well-known or relatively well-known and omitted others, not, as you suggest, because I "don't know about them" but because any list has to be manageable rather than excessively lengthy and the composers I have included are reasonably well-represented on disc at present.

I quite deliberately and explicitly headed this thread "SOME" unrecorded British Piano Concertos. The choice I made was from composers whose music is reasonably well-represented on disc. I clearly stated that there were other concertos not included in my list of 19. It was-and still is-clearly open to other members to add to the list. Indeed I would have been-and still would be-delighted if others did so. I would thereby learn more myself.

"I can name some very famous composers who are not on your list because you don't know about them".
Really? That is an assumption on your part which is pure assertion. The invitation to identify these very famous composers is very much open. I have always apologised in advance if I omit composers from my lists. I am bound to do so for the reasons given above.

"So this whole topic is subjective and should just be considered as your personal opinion rather than anything definitive which some can interpret this thread as representing"

This is the most damaging and insulting of your statements. Of course my contributions are subjective. Most posts on this forum represent the personal opinions of members. But, more importantly, I have repeatedly stated, in the most emphatic terms, that nothing I write, and certainly no list I have compiled, can ever be regarded by anyone (including myself) as "definitive". I am not so arrogant and I would be utterly appalled if any member regarded any list I have ever compiled as "definitive".

I deeply regret the tone of your post. Over the years I have contributed to this forum I have received nothing but encouragement from others for my contributions and, in particular, for the lists posted. I have never made extravagant claims for them. It is very sad to find myself accused of, apparently, having done so.

Perhaps you should have sat on your response a bit longer if you thought my stating your lists and approach are "totally valid" was offensive and ignorant.  I was defending your lists and acknowledging their are omissions that are subjective. *cough* Derek Bourgeois *cough* 
2  Little-known music of all eras / Discussion of obscure composers / Re: SOME unrecorded British Piano Concertos, 1934-94 on: June 03, 2019, 01:53:43 am
So, this is just out of curiosity/interest, why not all the unrecorded concertos by composers from Russia, Italy, France, USA, Germany, China, Japan, etc?

I don't have a list. I'm sure it would be long. Just asking.


The answer to your question is because there is only so much any one person can do. I have a particular interest in British music and hope that others might be interested in my list.

If others wish to work on similar lists of music from other countries then that would be just fine.

Regarding the USA however, there does not appear to be a huge body of American piano concertos written by well-known or relatively well-known composers. I might point out five which have not been recorded:

1944: Roy Harris No.1
1949: Paul Creston
1950: David Diamond
1953: Roy Harris No.2
2006: Benjamin Lees No.3

I think the point of your lists is that you are listing composers that YOU care about.  I think that is totally valid.  But when you define a composer as less well known, well...less well known to who?  You!  I can name some very famous composers who are not in your list but that is because you don't know about them.  So this whole topic is subjective and should just be considered as your personal opinion rather than anything definitive which some can interpret this thread as representing. 
3  Little-known music of all eras / New recordings / Re: William Wordsworth Orchestral Music Vol.2 on: May 30, 2019, 12:51:52 am
Love it!  Sounds great.
4  Little-known music of all eras / New recordings / Re: New Dutton CDs for May - Vaughan Williams, Braunfels, Arne and Elgar on: May 27, 2019, 03:17:35 pm
"The Future" is listed in Michael Kennedy's book, "A Catalogue of the Works of Ralph Vaughan Williams".  Here is what it says:

1908: The Future ('A wanderer is Man from his Birth') for solo soprano, chorus, and orchestra.  Words by Matthew Arnold (1822-88), Unpublished and incomplete.  Manuscript (vocal score) is 32 pages.  It is quite impossible to date this work accurately, but to include it in 1908 after a study of handwriting and other factors of that kind which must be taken into account seems reasonable.  The Manuscript is in the British Library.  Imperfect condensed score.

 The Future
By Matthew Arnold
A wanderer is man from his birth.
He was born in a ship
On the breast of the river of Time;
Brimming with wonder and joy
He spreads out his arms to the light,
Rivets his gaze on the banks of the stream.

As what he sees is, so have his thoughts been.
Whether he wakes,
Where the snowy mountainous pass,
Echoing the screams of the eagles,
Hems in its gorges the bed
Of the new-born clear-flowing stream;
Whether he first sees light
Where the river in gleaming rings
Sluggishly winds through the plain;
Whether in sound of the swallowing sea—
As is the world on the banks,
So is the mind of the man.

Vainly does each, as he glides,
Fable and dream
Of the lands which the river of Time
Had left ere he woke on its breast,
Or shall reach when his eyes have been closed.
Only the tract where he sails
He wots of; only the thoughts,
Raised by the objects he passes, are his.

Who can see the green earth any more
As she was by the sources of Time?
Who imagines her fields as they lay
In the sunshine, unworn by the plough?
Who thinks as they thought,
The tribes who then roam'd on her breast,
Her vigorous, primitive sons?

What girl
Now reads in her bosom as clear
As Rebekah read, when she sate
At eve by the palm-shaded well?
Who guards in her breast
As deep, as pellucid a spring
Of feeling, as tranquil, as sure?

What bard,
At the height of his vision, can deem
Of God, of the world, of the soul,
With a plainness as near,
As flashing as Moses felt
When he lay in the night by his flock
On the starlit Arabian waste?
Can rise and obey
The beck of the Spirit like him?

This tract which the river of Time
Now flows through with us, is the plain.
Gone is the calm of its earlier shore.
Border'd by cities and hoarse
With a thousand cries is its stream.
And we on its breast, our minds
Are confused as the cries which we hear,
Changing and shot as the sights which we see.

And we say that repose has fled
For ever the course of the river of Time.
That cities will crowd to its edge
In a blacker, incessanter line;
That the din will be more on its banks,
Denser the trade on its stream,
Flatter the plain where it flows,
Fiercer the sun overhead.
That never will those on its breast
See an ennobling sight,
Drink of the feeling of quiet again.

But what was before us we know not,
And we know not what shall succeed.

Haply, the river of Time—
As it grows, as the towns on its marge
Fling their wavering lights
On a wider, statelier stream—
May acquire, if not the calm
Of its early mountainous shore,
Yet a solemn peace of its own.

And the width of the waters, the hush
Of the grey expanse where he floats,
Freshening its current and spotted with foam
As it draws to the Ocean, may strike
Peace to the soul of the man on its breast—
As the pale waste widens around him,
As the banks fade dimmer away,
As the stars come out, and the night-wind
Brings up the stream
Murmurs and scents of the infinite sea.
5  Little-known music of all eras / Discussion of obscure composers / Re: Unrecorded British Symphonies: an update on: May 14, 2019, 01:13:08 am
Bourgeois's later symphonies should not be ignored. They may not be "great", but they are certainly enjoyable listening, and would be great for an amateur orchestra looking for something original to play. I recommend #90 and #101 as starting points.

THANK YOU!!!  We fans are few and far between.
6  Little-known music of all eras / Youtube performances / Re: Paul Juon "Ingeborg’s Lament" Orchestral Ballade, Op. 3a (1894) on: April 04, 2019, 01:40:26 am
You see, this post is exactly why I visit this site.  I composer I have never heard of with very captivating music that I must explore further.  Thank you for posting.  I greatly enjoyed hearing this piece by a composer I had never previously heard of.
7  Little-known music of all eras / New recordings / Re: Akutagawa ballets on: March 24, 2019, 12:54:30 am
IMHO the relevance of this disc is that Wikipedia says the two ballets contained here are "lost":
http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/3SCD-22

There are multiple levels of "lost".  For example, Miklos Rozsa's MGM scores are lost (they were thrown away) but we have the recordings so can reconstruct them by ear.  Havergal Brian's masterpiece, Prometheus Unbound, is lost yet we have the vocal part with a piano reduction of the orchestra so can probably be reconstructed in an approximation.  Maybe Akutagawa's ballet's fall in this grey line.  Mahler's student symphonies are lost probably forever because they were stored in Dresden when it was destroyed in WWII. 
8  Little-known music of all eras / Discussion of obscure composers / Re: Unrecorded British Symphonies: an update on: March 18, 2019, 02:56:26 pm
My personal definition of "completist" in this context involves the completion of cycles of the symphonies of composers some of whose symphonies have been recorded on commercial cd. The only exception in my list- which I acknowledged was neither "complete" nor "definitive" -was Iain Hamilton.

I am also a realist. None of Bourgeois's symphonies is on disc and there is absolutely no realistic prospect that his complete symphonies will ever be recorded - however worthy they may be. For me to have added 116 Bourgeois symphonies to the 33 I listed would have been, frankly, ridiculous.
I repeat it is not definitive, it was not intended to be. Anyone can add to it. I might have added a number of living and very active composers- John Pickard, to name but one.

Fair point.  His first seven symphonies were all radio broadcast on the BBC so should have the same chance of being released in cleaned up by Lyrita like they've done with other releases.
9  Little-known music of all eras / Discussion of obscure composers / Re: Unrecorded British Symphonies: an update on: March 18, 2019, 01:36:15 am
I'm a completest too but why do you ignore Derek Bourgeois?  You are a semicompletist.  He deserves his place. 
10  Little-known music of all eras / Discussion of obscure composers / Re: What are you currently listening to? on: February 11, 2019, 01:20:53 am
The Scottish composer Thomas Wilson's Symphonies No.3 and 4 on Linn Records. This is most definitely my kind of music: serious and requiring concentrated listening, modern but accessible. The 3rd is the more enigmatic of the two with some Bartokian elements but a lot of scurrying string work and cross-rhythyms. The 4th is the more "accessible" and is really quite magnificent. The RSNO premiered all three works on the disc (the third is "Carillon" for orchestra) under Sir Alexander Gibson and Bryden Thomson but cannot have performed them for years (Wilson died in 2001). The young conductor, Rory Macdonald, is the son of a very good friend of mine and had to prepare the orchestra, rehearse and record in the space of the usual two days; not easy!
https://www.linnrecords.com/recording-thomas-wilson-symphonies-nos-3-4

Strongly recommended to anyone who has a taste for late 20th century British symphonies!

The excerpts sound excellent!  I want to hear more...Thanks for calling it out! 
11  Little-known music of all eras / Discussion of obscure composers / Re: What are you currently listening to? on: February 10, 2019, 01:16:48 am
Today I've listened to Close Encounters of The Third Kind (a masterpiece), Ligeti's Atmospheres, and right now listening to Lyatoshynsky's Symphony No. 1.
12  Little-known music of all eras / Discussion of obscure composers / Re: What are you currently listening to? on: February 06, 2019, 03:25:46 pm
I am not at home, I am in London working (which is why this is in haste), but if this piece is available to purchase on a Bridge cd then reposting it from You Tube is against the policy we have on this forum- a policy we clearly re-established and restated last year.

I have assumed that other works posted on here recently from You Tube are taken from radio broadcasts. If so then that is fine. This one however seems clearly to be on a commercial cd.

I forgot, so I need to delete the post?
13  Little-known music of all eras / Discussion of obscure composers / Stephen Watson on: January 22, 2019, 01:21:46 am
I don't see any mention here of English composer Stephen Watson (b. 1955) who has a strong Ralph Vaughan Williams feel.  His music is lyrical, dramatic, and expressive.  This recording is worth checking out but I don't see much more information about this living composer. 


https://www.heraldav.co.uk/product/stephen-watson-o-captain-my-captain/

14  Little-known music of all eras / Discussion of obscure composers / Re: Immanent closure on: January 15, 2019, 03:29:44 pm
This thread reminds me of the opening credits in Monty Python and the Holy Grail when it says "Those responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked have been sacked".
15  Little-known music of all eras / Discussion of obscure composers / Re: (Some) Twentieth Century British Symphonies not yet on cd: an update on: January 15, 2019, 01:05:47 am
"Maximum opportunity" meaning exactly what?


Well, they have a recording and are holding it.  I don't think I can answer when they will release it but I assume they are holding it to release when it is most beneficial to them.  Ask them.
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