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1  Little-known music of all eras / Discussion of obscure composers / Re: Mussorgsky but not Ravel on: November 16, 2017, 02:03:31 am
but really, I prefer the piano original to all of them.


Indeed Smiley) Dear old Modeste never gave any hint that it was any kind of 'unfinished' orchestral work... and as you rightly say, his faithful collaborator Rimsky never took on such a project Smiley

There are more than 600 orchestrations of this fabulous work (including one by yours truly which lies somewhere between Tushmalov and Ravel and includes an organ in the final moments)....
If anyone is interested in hearing, here is an excerpt from my version:
http://picosong.com/wnby9


Hello Relm1 - I really like your version of the Catacombs, it is very atmospheric.  Did you orchestrate the whole work?   Is it available to buy or download anywhere?  Please do tell us more, and about yourself as well!

Thank you Christopher.  Yes the whole work was orchestrated but truthfully, the performance wasn't very good and I am not comfortable sharing it all.  Lot's of cracked notes and inconsistent rhythms.  I performed the bass trombone part in the premiere performance and mixed the recording.  Overall it wasn't horrible but isn't what I would consider reflective of my intentions.  My orchestration is 33 minutes long and is scored for 3.3.3.3/4.3.3.1/timp+3/hp/celesta/organ (ad lib)/strings.  I adore the Ravel version but also wanted to make some practical changes.  I simplified some of the orchestration so it would be more playable and less demanding (Ravel does some very complex rhythms and double/triple stops that aren't fully necessary unless you have a suburb orchestra).  In Bydlo, the melody is given to a tuba in a very high register (typically requiring the performer to switch to a euphonium to hit the very high G# notes).  For me, I have the first phrase to the tuba and let the first horn pick up the higher notes.  It is the same note but fits their range better.  So why did Ravel put a tuba in that role?  He either knew that particular tubist could nail it or wanted the note to sound off.  I didn't want that.  I wanted more security.  I will tell you since I was the orchestrator and bass trombonist who sat next to the tuba that they were terrified of what Ravel wanted so my version is more tuba friendly while keeping the same musical intention.  As far as my background, I have a masters degree in composition and have orchestrated or arranged many works.  I have my own version of Bach's fantastic Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor for orchestra and Rachmaninoff's Prelude in B minor that has been performed in concert.  This week my suite of themes of Puccini operas is being performed in concert.  I am currently working on my Symphony No. 2. 



Which orchestra is playing, which conductor etc? And when?  (I am labelling!!)
2  Little-known music of all eras / Discussion of obscure composers / Re: Mussorgsky but not Ravel on: November 15, 2017, 03:17:50 pm
Thank you Christopher.  Yes the whole work was orchestrated but truthfully, the performance wasn't very good and I am not comfortable sharing it all.  Lot's of cracked notes and inconsistent rhythms.  I performed the bass trombone part in the premiere performance and mixed the recording.  Overall it wasn't horrible but isn't what I would consider reflective of my intentions.  My orchestration is 33 minutes long and is scored for 3.3.3.3/4.3.3.1/timp+3/hp/celesta/organ (ad lib)/strings.  I adore the Ravel version but also wanted to make some practical changes.  I simplified some of the orchestration so it would be more playable and less demanding (Ravel does some very complex rhythms and double/triple stops that aren't fully necessary unless you have a suburb orchestra).  In Bydlo, the melody is given to a tuba in a very high register (typically requiring the performer to switch to a euphonium to hit the very high G# notes).  For me, I have the first phrase to the tuba and let the first horn pick up the higher notes.  It is the same note but fits their range better.  So why did Ravel put a tuba in that role?  He either knew that particular tubist could nail it or wanted the note to sound off.  I didn't want that.  I wanted more security.  I will tell you since I was the orchestrator and bass trombonist who sat next to the tuba that they were terrified of what Ravel wanted so my version is more tuba friendly while keeping the same musical intention.  As far as my background, I have a masters degree in composition and have orchestrated or arranged many works.  I have my own version of Bach's fantastic Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor for orchestra and Rachmaninoff's Prelude in B minor that has been performed in concert.  This week my suite of themes of Puccini operas is being performed in concert.  I am currently working on my Symphony No. 2.  

Thanks for this Relm1 - that's really interesting, especially about Ravel's torture of the tuba players!  Am I allowed to ask your name?  I will definitely look out for your music.
3  Little-known music of all eras / Discussion of obscure composers / Re: Mussorgsky but not Ravel on: November 14, 2017, 09:55:41 am
but really, I prefer the piano original to all of them.


Indeed Smiley) Dear old Modeste never gave any hint that it was any kind of 'unfinished' orchestral work... and as you rightly say, his faithful collaborator Rimsky never took on such a project Smiley

There are more than 600 orchestrations of this fabulous work (including one by yours truly which lies somewhere between Tushmalov and Ravel and includes an organ in the final moments)....
If anyone is interested in hearing, here is an excerpt from my version:
http://picosong.com/wnby9


Hello Relm1 - I really like your version of the Catacombs, it is very atmospheric.  Did you orchestrate the whole work?   Is it available to buy or download anywhere?  Please do tell us more, and about yourself as well!
4  Little-known music of all eras / New recordings / Re: Grigori Ginzburg (complete?) Recordings on: October 24, 2017, 10:21:05 am
What is on these discs?
5  Little-known music of all eras / Works on the wireless / Re: Ralph Williams - Romance for harmonica, piano and strings (1951) on: October 23, 2017, 10:39:58 am
So this is or isn't RVW?
6  Little-known music of all eras / Works on the wireless / Re: Alexander Mosoloff - second concerto for violoncello and orchestra (1945) on: October 20, 2017, 09:40:15 am
Kyeff?!
7  Little-known music of all eras / New recordings / Re: "Servilia" - opera by Rimsky-Korsakov on: October 13, 2017, 10:52:39 am
Thank you very much for that. There is some audience noise but the sound is not at all bad.

Thanks to you I now have all of Rimsky's operas, and wonderful things they are too.

Hi Hatoff - I'm glad to have completed your R-K opera collection (and mine too)!  Can I encourage you to give a review/impressions of this piece?  What do you make of it, as a piece of music, and in terms of this particular recording?  How does it compare with R-K's other operas?  I have to confess that despite having them all, I rarely listen to them (with the partial exception of May Night), I much prefer his orchestral works.
8  Little-known music of all eras / Downloads discussion / Re: Polish Music on: October 09, 2017, 11:51:38 am
More on Tarasevich/Tarasiewicz:

from a Russian-language essay on Belarusian composers (google-translated):  http://elib.bspu.by/bitstream/doc/2769/1/1.%20Ян%20Тарасевич,%20Евгений%20Карлович%20Тикоцкий,%20Николай%20Щеглов-Куликович,%20Григорий%20Константинович%20Пукст.pdf

Yan Tarasevich (23/10/1893 - 06/18/1961), composer, pianist and teacher. He was born in the county town of Sokolka in Grodno province (now Sokółka, Podlasie, Poland). The father of the future composer was a Lieutenant colonel and a hero of the Russian-Turkish war. His parents died when he was seven years old, and he was taken into the care of his mother's second cousin. On the estate of this aunt the boy had a governess, who gave him his first knowledge in musical literacy and taught him to play the piano.

Jan loved to play music, but, like most children of aristocratic family, he prepared another for another destiny. The boy was sent to study at the St. Petersburg Cadet Corps. However, his love for music was stronger. Immediately after graduating he entered the St. Petersburg Conservatory.

Jan's musical talent manifested itself at the conservatory. His talent was noticed by the outstanding composer A. Glazunov, with whose help the first works of the young composer were published. Yan Tarasevich enjoyed great popularity as a brilliant performer. His abilities were noted by the leading musical lights of the time - Sergei Rahmaninov and Jean Sibelius. Tarasevich was presented at the court of the Russian Emperor, where he performed in concerts. The Tsar's daughter Maria was a fan.

But his success and promising future were interrupted by the October Revolution of 1917. The composer taught for some time at the Grodno Belarusian school. He was also involved in the creation of the short-lived independent Belarusian People's Republic in 1918. But after the establishment of Soviet power, he returned to the estate near Sokółka and completely gave himself to composing. In 1921, as a result of the Brest Treaty, Sokolka - being only a few kilometers from the border with Belarus, was included as part of Poland. Yan Tarasevich found himself outside his homeland. For many years he lived immovably on his estate. According to the recollections of local residents, the composer paid little attention to the farm, giving all his time to music. Many of his works are inspired by the atmosphere that prevailed around the estate. He felt the friendly disposition of local residents. In gratitude, the composer dedicated his "Banal Waltz" to them.

In 1939, after the arrival of Soviet troops, Tarasevich left his estate and travelled to Latvia, to wait out the "hard times." With the advent of Soviet power Tarasevich's estate  was nationalized, and all the land distributed to local peasants. When he returned to his home in 1942, he found it destroyed.

Having survived the war, in 1947 Tarasevich moved to Białystok to a small wooden house, consisting of a kitchen and one room in which the piano and bed could barely fit. Tarasevich lived in this house for fourteen years,  earning his living by giving private music lessons. Many of his students later became well-known musicians. The composer died in 1961, and  was buried in a cemetery in Sokółka, according to the terms of his will.

Living on the territory of Poland, Jan Tarasevicc did not lost his connection to  Belarusian culture. The root of many of his creations was the Belarusian folk music, and his vocal works were based on poems by Belarusian poets.  Tarasevich left behind 110 works of various genres. These include works for piano, choir, chamber and instrumental works, songs and romances, and one unfinished Piano Concerto.

Neither in life or after his death was Tarasevich's work recognised by Polish composers. A revival of interest in his music began only after the broadcast of the musical heritage of the composers of Belarus in 1997. In 2000, at the initiative of "Belarusian Capella" in Warsaw a CD was released, which includes 24 vocal and piano works of the composer, performed by artists of the Belarusian State Philharmonic Society and the National Academic Bolshoi Opera and Ballet Theater of Belarus.

In 2001, a book was published in Minsk by the singer Viktor Skorobogatov called "Without glory: the composer Yan Tarasevich". In mid-2007, Białystok TV recorded a documentary film "The Forgotten composer - Yan Tarasevich."

In 2011, a plaque was unveiled in Sokółka in memory of Jan Tarasevich.

In 2013 in Białystok, the Yan Tarasevich Festival took place, dedicated to the music of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania.

9  Little-known music of all eras / Downloads discussion / Re: Polish Music on: October 09, 2017, 11:51:00 am
I have posted (in both the Belarusian and Polish sections) up some piano music and songs by the Belarusian/Polish composer Yan Tarasevich (also spelt Jan Tarasiewicz).  The below is google-translated from his Belarusian-language Wikipedia page:

Yan Tarasevich (Polish: Jan Tarasiewicz; September 23, 1893, Sokolka now Podlasie, Poland - June 18, 1961..) - Polish and Belarusian composer, pianist and teacher.

He received his musical education in St. Petersburg. He participated in the creation of the Belarusian People's Republic. He worked in the Belarusian school in Grodno. Then he lived mainly in Sakolshchyne.
He wrote music for piano, choral and desktop, as well as songs. Inspired by Belarusian folklore. He left behind 113 compositions and one unfinished concerto.
In 2013, in Bialystok took place Yan Tarasevich Festival, dedicated to the music of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania.


https://be.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ян_Тарасевіч




10  Little-known music of all eras / Downloads discussion / Re: Belarusian Music on: October 09, 2017, 11:50:02 am
More on Tarasevich/Tarasiewicz:

from a Russian-language essay on Belarusian composers (google-translated):  http://elib.bspu.by/bitstream/doc/2769/1/1.%20Ян%20Тарасевич,%20Евгений%20Карлович%20Тикоцкий,%20Николай%20Щеглов-Куликович,%20Григорий%20Константинович%20Пукст.pdf

Yan Tarasevich (23/10/1893 - 06/18/1961), composer, pianist and teacher. He was born in the county town of Sokolka in Grodno province (now Sokółka, Podlasie, Poland). The father of the future composer was a Lieutenant colonel and a hero of the Russian-Turkish war. His parents died when he was seven years old, and he was taken into the care of his mother's second cousin. On the estate of this aunt the boy had a governess, who gave him his first knowledge in musical literacy and taught him to play the piano.

Jan loved to play music, but, like most children of aristocratic family, he prepared another for another destiny. The boy was sent to study at the St. Petersburg Cadet Corps. However, his love for music was stronger. Immediately after graduating he entered the St. Petersburg Conservatory.

Jan's musical talent manifested itself at the conservatory. His talent was noticed by the outstanding composer A. Glazunov, with whose help the first works of the young composer were published. Yan Tarasevich enjoyed great popularity as a brilliant performer. His abilities were noted by the leading musical lights of the time - Sergei Rahmaninov and Jean Sibelius. Tarasevich was presented at the court of the Russian Emperor, where he performed in concerts. The Tsar's daughter Maria was a fan.

But his success and promising future were interrupted by the October Revolution of 1917. The composer taught for some time at the Grodno Belarusian school. He was also involved in the creation of the short-lived independent Belarusian People's Republic in 1918. But after the establishment of Soviet power, he returned to the estate near Sokółka and completely gave himself to composing. In 1921, as a result of the Brest Treaty, Sokolka - being only a few kilometers from the border with Belarus, was included as part of Poland. Yan Tarasevich found himself outside his homeland. For many years he lived immovably on his estate. According to the recollections of local residents, the composer paid little attention to the farm, giving all his time to music. Many of his works are inspired by the atmosphere that prevailed around the estate. He felt the friendly disposition of local residents. In gratitude, the composer dedicated his "Banal Waltz" to them.

In 1939, after the arrival of Soviet troops, Tarasevich left his estate and travelled to Latvia, to wait out the "hard times." With the advent of Soviet power Tarasevich's estate  was nationalized, and all the land distributed to local peasants. When he returned to his home in 1942, he found it destroyed.

Having survived the war, in 1947 Tarasevich moved to Białystok to a small wooden house, consisting of a kitchen and one room in which the piano and bed could barely fit. Tarasevich lived in this house for fourteen years,  earning his living by giving private music lessons. Many of his students later became well-known musicians. The composer died in 1961, and  was buried in a cemetery in Sokółka, according to the terms of his will.

Living on the territory of Poland, Jan Tarasevicc did not lost his connection to  Belarusian culture. The root of many of his creations was the Belarusian folk music, and his vocal works were based on poems by Belarusian poets.  Tarasevich left behind 110 works of various genres. These include works for piano, choir, chamber and instrumental works, songs and romances, and one unfinished Piano Concerto.

Neither in life or after his death was Tarasevich's work recognised by Polish composers. A revival of interest in his music began only after the broadcast of the musical heritage of the composers of Belarus in 1997. In 2000, at the initiative of "Belarusian Capella" in Warsaw a CD was released, which includes 24 vocal and piano works of the composer, performed by artists of the Belarusian State Philharmonic Society and the National Academic Bolshoi Opera and Ballet Theater of Belarus.

In 2001, a book was published in Minsk by the singer Viktor Skorobogatov called "Without glory: the composer Yan Tarasevich". In mid-2007, Białystok TV recorded a documentary film "The Forgotten composer - Yan Tarasevich."

In 2011, a plaque was unveiled in Sokółka in memory of Jan Tarasevich.

In 2013 in Białystok, the Yan Tarasevich Festival took place, dedicated to the music of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania.
11  Little-known music of all eras / Downloads discussion / Re: Belarusian Music on: October 09, 2017, 11:49:19 am
I have posted (in both the Belarusian and Polish sections) up some piano music and songs by the Belarusian/Polish composer Yan Tarasevich (also spelt Jan Tarasiewicz).  The below is google-translated from his Belarusian-language Wikipedia page:

Yan Tarasevich (Polish: Jan Tarasiewicz; September 23, 1893, Sokolka now Podlasie, Poland - June 18, 1961..) - Polish and Belarusian composer, pianist and teacher.

He received his musical education in St. Petersburg. He participated in the creation of the Belarusian People's Republic. He worked in the Belarusian school in Grodno. Then he lived mainly in Sakolshchyne.
He wrote music for piano, choral and desktop, as well as songs. Inspired by Belarusian folklore. He left behind 113 compositions and one unfinished concerto.
In 2013, in Bialystok took took place the Yan Tarasevich Festival, dedicated to the music of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania.


https://be.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ян_Тарасевіч








12  Little-known music of all eras / New recordings / Re: "Servilia" - opera by Rimsky-Korsakov on: October 05, 2017, 02:39:14 pm
So this recording of Servilia has still not appeared.  I wonder if it ever will....

Meanwhile someone (presumably in Moscow) has put up what must be a bootleg, dated 06.05.2016 - here:

http://muz-color.ru/?s= сервилия

Links called:
Римский-Корсаков Сервилия, 3ч.
Римский-Корсаков Сервилия, 1ч.
Римский-Корсаков Сервилия, 2ч.
13  Various / Miscellany / Re: The Countries of the members of this forum: on: September 25, 2017, 10:06:13 am
U.K.
14  Little-known music of all eras / Notice of interesting concerts around the world / Re: Unknown Mosolov on: September 19, 2017, 11:23:21 am
Well, it's a promising concept ! Thanks for the thought.
Let's cut to the chase - is this 'Orfey' radio something that people know of, and can it be picked up elsewhere than in Russia; is anyone able, or do they know someone who might be able, to record the concert ?
Otherwise, it's all rather academic, I fear !
Dear Cjvinthechair
There is a 2CD+DVD set

Best

Thanks Toby - do you have an image of the front cover of this CD also?
15  Little-known music of all eras / Discussion of obscure composers / Re: Discarded, withdrawn, suppressed early Symphonies. on: September 12, 2017, 04:08:03 pm
One of England's finest living symphonists with 9 symphonies to his name wrote about 2˝ symphonies before his official "Symphony No. 1", although I do not know if any of them still exist; I refer here to David Matthews.

Interesting.  I too am a fan of his.  It is interesting how different stylistically he is from Colin Matthews.  I like quite a bit of Colin's music as well but he is a bit more hit or miss for me.  I think his "Cortege" is a very fine and intense Mahler style work.  You don't really get that Germanic sense in David's music since he seems more rooted in England (or is it British Dundonnell?  Someone needs to explain the nomenclature and its historical implication to us yanks). 

Briefly Grin the United Kingdom is made up of England, Scotland and Wales (often collectively called "Great Britain" and Northern Ireland. Scotland was an independent country until 1707 when it united with England, although the two countries had shared the same monarch from 1603 when the Scottish King, James VI inherited the crown of England from his cousin, Queen Elizabeth i. Although the Scottish Parliament was abolished in 1707 Scotland kept and still keeps its own separate and different legal system and educational system. Now that Devolution has given Scotland (and Wales) their own Assemblies (parliaments without full powers) the U.K. has moved somewhat towards the Federal model as in Canada, Australia and, of course, the USA as well as European countries like Germany and, currently much in the news, Spain!!

There is ongoing debate (often very bitter) about whether Scotland should return to full independence- just as there is in Catalonia which is trying to secede from the rest of Spain. Even however if, as a Scot, one does not support independence most Scots are proud to be Scottish.

....and, after all, there are plenty of New Yorkers who think that they have not much in common with the people in California and vice versa Grin

Btw the British Queen is also Queen of Canada, Australia and New Zealand.....although these countries MAY opt to become Republics one day.

(This is a very abbreviated attempt to answer the question about nomenclature and historical significance and I have tried to reduce it to its most basic!)

Thank you for the brief explanation of the complicated history.  I studied some time in Ireland and felt bitterness but didn't understand.  Much appreciated.  So each of these regions of very strong national identities, correct?  So it could be insulting to call a Scotsman Welsh for example? I recall in London that all got along until booz was introduced where they let their real feelings be heard.  Meanwhile there are also colonists adding to the complexity. I know some from Scotland who are fiercely independent minded but this is difficult for yanks to reconcile with brexit people who want isolation and their own individual national identity.  Dundonnell, I would love to meet you for dinner or for a pint and understand this better but sadly I am broke and live thousands of miles away. 

They are not regions, they are nations and countries, which collectively make up the UK.  It's really not hard...
The UK has four constituent nations (plus some other bits). 
The USA has 50 constituent states (plus some other bits).

Dundonnel when you say ""Btw the British Queen is also Queen of Canada, Australia and New Zealand.....although these countries MAY opt to become Republics one day. - and equally Britain MAY do the same.  Remember that she is not the British Queen in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Jamaica, Belize, Papua New Guinea and the rest - she is the Canadian Queen, Australian Queen, New Zealand Queen, Jamaican Queen etc etc.  They are separate monarchies with their own constitutions and rules who happen to be united in one person.  See (for example) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_Canada
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