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31  Assorted items / General musical discussion / Re: SOME unrecorded British Piano Concertos, 1934-94 on: June 18, 2019, 04:47:49 pm
Weinberg completed twenty one numbered symphonies (No.22 was unfinished by the composer but has been completed and recorded) and four chamber symphonies.  Some of the symphonies were issued by Olympia from recordings made by the state-owned Melodiya company in the former USSR. Since then Chandos and Naxos have between them recorded most of the symphonies.

The general consensus however is that Weinberg was one of the most distinguished of the immediate post-Shostakovich generation of symphonists. There are many neglected composers who have been ignored by both Chandos and Naxos. "Selling" Bourgeois to either would be a difficult task, I am afraid.
32  Assorted items / General musical discussion / Re: SOME unrecorded British Piano Concertos, 1934-94 on: June 18, 2019, 02:42:48 pm
I too hope that Bourgeois's day will come. You mention Havergal Brian and Rued Langgaard. As far as Brian is concerned the rediscovery of his music began towards the end of his very long life and was inspired by the promotion of the music by his passionate advocate the composer Robert Simpson. Simpson was, at that time, a BBC Music Producer and used that position to get Brian's symphonies performed and broadcast. Since then the dedicated support and financial power of the Havergal Brian Society has enormously facilitated the recording of the music.

What is required to revive a neglected composer's music is a combination of factors. It helps if the music is broacast. In the UK that means that the BBC has to demonstrate an interest. BBC music producers have to be aware of the composer's existence and willing to push for broadcast performances. There have to be conductors willing to learn the music. This is less likely nowadays when there are fewer British conductors regularly conducting regional orchestras.

Record companies are also crucial. The reality again nowadays is that companies like to record a series of a composer's music. This is where the sheer number of Bourgeois's symphonies works to his disadvantage. Had he composed a dozen or so then he would have more appeal to a label which might show some interest.

It is, sadly, not necessarily a reflection on the quality of the music but is more to do with the interest/support of those who have the required influence. This is the difficulty Bourgeois faces.

Harsh reality......but never give up!
33  Assorted items / General musical discussion / Re: SOME unrecorded British Piano Concertos, 1934-94 on: June 17, 2019, 09:21:43 pm
.....and I am aware that Aulis Sallinen is still alive and might well have claims on the status of pre-eminence!
34  Assorted items / General musical discussion / Re: SOME unrecorded British Piano Concertos, 1934-94 on: June 17, 2019, 04:54:31 pm
The problem with the concept is that while Aho is probably Finland's most prominent living composer and certainly the most recorded Bourgeois had been virtually ignored since his first half dozen or so symphonies. The idea of a whole concert of hia music was perhaps a bit unrealistic.

......but clearly neglect did not deter Bourgeois- which was entirely admirable of course.
35  Assorted items / General musical discussion / Re: SOME unrecorded British Piano Concertos, 1934-94 on: June 17, 2019, 02:21:49 pm
Many thanks for your offer – much appreciated! However, Colin / Dundonnell has meanwhile offered his help in buying the CD, so all is fine. Anyway, great to have fellow collectors around who are willing to help! :)

I have ordered the cd from the ebay seller. Always happy to reciprocate :)
36  Assorted items / Commercial recordings (vintage, new and forthcoming) / Re: Stanford on Hyperion in August and SOMM in September on: June 17, 2019, 02:18:22 pm
Holger is perfectly correct. I had missed the Irish Concertino, op. 161. I have added it to my list. Many thanks!
37  Assorted items / General musical discussion / Re: SOME unrecorded British Piano Concertos, 1934-94 on: June 17, 2019, 02:12:57 pm
It is interesting to note from recent posts that despite Amphissa's reservations there are a number of concertos by composers I orginally named which do seem to interest at least some members on here........although not perhaps enough to initiate a commercial bandwagon ;D
38  Assorted items / General musical discussion / Re: SOME unrecorded British Piano Concertos, 1934-94 on: June 17, 2019, 02:10:32 pm
Thank you for this.

As I understand it the Piano Concerto is part of the Symphony No.65 which is intended to play as a concert-with an Overture, Concerto and Symphony. Did Bourgeois want all three components to be played in sequence or sanction the individual elements to be performed quite independently? I suspect we do not know.

But whatever is the case I am happy to acknowledge that there is a Piano Concerto (albeit within a symphonic context).
39  Assorted items / Commercial recordings (vintage, new and forthcoming) / Re: Stanford on Hyperion in August and SOMM in September on: June 12, 2019, 04:44:41 pm
Wonderful news! Now that almost all his orchestral music is recorded (some of it more than once), it's great to see the choral and even operatic music finding its way to us. Maybe The Critic will be available before I'm too old to hear it.

You might be interested to know which purely orchestral music Stanford composed which has NOT been recorded:

1881:      Serenade for orchestra in G major, op.18: 25 minutes   *
1895:      Suite of Ancient Dances for orchestra, op.58: 15 minutes    *
1903:      Four Irish Dances for orchestra, op.89
1908:      Installation March for military band, op.108
1917-18: An Irish Concertino for Violin, Cello and Orchestra, op.161: 19 minutes  *
1921:      Variations for Violin and Orchestra, op.180
40  Downloads by surname / Only direct links / Re: The UC-uploads at A-M F on: June 12, 2019, 01:57:25 am
Well, some of the dead ones on here, such as the de Vocht and Rasse violin concertos would be nice, unless you can find them commercially available anywhere.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/jtgkac5zge5ftvi/deVocht_vlnCto.wav/file

I have not had time to put these links in the correct location on this site or transcribe the details (I am about to leave home for London)....but since you asked!
41  Assorted items / Commercial recordings (vintage, new and forthcoming) / Re: Stanford on Hyperion in August and SOMM in September on: June 11, 2019, 02:08:58 pm
I entirely agree with Albion! A very well thought out programme - as one would expect from any involvement of the Stanford expert Jeremy Dibble.
Who would have thought a few years ago that there would be such a revival of Stanford's choral music?
42  Assorted items / General musical discussion / Re: SOME unrecorded British Piano Concertos, 1934-94 on: June 10, 2019, 11:59:12 pm
My apologies for taking so long to respond to the last two posts. I have been very busy preparing for a visit to London and for the (non-musical) research I will be conducting at a museum in the city.

I shall not bore members by re-stating my position. I have already done so at considerable length. I apologise if I misinterpreted what was written by relm1 and by Amphissa.

With regard to the music of Derek Bourgeois, I have in previous posts acknowledged both the neglect suffered by Bourgeois and the need to record at least some of his music. As far as I am aware-and I may of course be wrong- Bourgeois did not actually write a Piano Concerto. As far as his symphonies are concerned any list of neglected or unrecorded music which included Bourgeois's compositions would, perforce, spread over several separate posts. Such a list would be "unmanageably" long. That is the only reason why I omitted him-with sincere regret-from any lists I have posted.

Amphissa makes some valid points regarding both personal taste and subjective judgment. I would point out however that the composers on my Piano Concerto list are all, to varying extents, already represented on disc. Indeed, of the fifteen composers listed eight have already had one or more of their piano concertos recorded.
No one would argue-and I certainly would not-that these concertos are all "undiscovered masterpieces". But the fact that record labels have actually already invested in putting some of these composers' music on disc does suggest that there is a market (albeit a small market) for that music.

However it would probably be better if we left it at that and agreed to disagree (if or where we do :)).
43  Assorted items / General musical discussion / Re: SOME unrecorded British Piano Concertos, 1934-94 on: June 03, 2019, 02:59:17 pm
Although I read relm1's post last night I decided to sleep on it before responding. My initial reaction-which has only marginally altered-was that it was both offensive and ignorant.

Let me now patiently reply to the points made.

"the point of your lists is that you are listing composers that YOU care about".
No. The "point" of my lists is to highlight particular musical "issues" and, hopefully, inform others who may share my interests. No more than that. They will be of no interest to those who do not....and I accept that. On any forum members will have diverse tastes and areas of interest.
Nor do I simply list composers that I "CARE" about....whatever that may mean.

"when you define a composer as less well-known"
I was not aware that I have ever explicitly done so. I have, very obviously, highlighted composers who are well-known or relatively well-known and omitted others, not, as you suggest, because I "don't know about them" but because any list has to be manageable rather than excessively lengthy and the composers I have included are reasonably well-represented on disc at present.

I quite deliberately and explicitly headed this thread "SOME" unrecorded British Piano Concertos. The choice I made was from composers whose music is reasonably well-represented on disc. I clearly stated that there were other concertos not included in my list of 19. It was-and still is-clearly open to other members to add to the list. Indeed I would have been-and still would be-delighted if others did so. I would thereby learn more myself.

"I can name some very famous composers who are not on your list because you don't know about them".
Really? That is an assumption on your part which is pure assertion. The invitation to identify these very famous composers is very much open. I have always apologised in advance if I omit composers from my lists. I am bound to do so for the reasons given above.

"So this whole topic is subjective and should just be considered as your personal opinion rather than anything definitive which some can interpret this thread as representing"

This is the most damaging and insulting of your statements. Of course my contributions are subjective. Most posts on this forum represent the personal opinions of members. But, more importantly, I have repeatedly stated, in the most emphatic terms, that nothing I write, and certainly no list I have compiled, can ever be regarded by anyone (including myself) as "definitive". I am not so arrogant and I would be utterly appalled if any member regarded any list I have ever compiled as "definitive".

I deeply regret the tone of your post. Over the years I have contributed to this forum I have received nothing but encouragement from others for my contributions and, in particular, for the lists posted. I have never made extravagant claims for them. It is very sad to find myself accused of, apparently, having done so.
44  Assorted items / Individual composers / Re: Mario Pilati on: June 02, 2019, 03:56:04 pm
We owe you a very considerable debt for all your efforts in making so many of these early works available on disc! Yes, they are derivative but no less enjoyable for all that.
45  Assorted items / General musical discussion / Re: SOME unrecorded British Piano Concertos, 1934-94 on: June 02, 2019, 03:52:26 pm
So, this is just out of curiosity/interest, why not all the unrecorded concertos by composers from Russia, Italy, France, USA, Germany, China, Japan, etc?

I don't have a list. I'm sure it would be long. Just asking.


The answer to your question is because there is only so much any one person can do. I have a particular interest in British music and hope that others might be interested in my list.

If others wish to work on similar lists of music from other countries then that would be just fine.

Regarding the USA however, there does not appear to be a huge body of American piano concertos written by well-known or relatively well-known composers. I might point out five which have not been recorded:

1944: Roy Harris No.1
1949: Paul Creston
1950: David Diamond
1953: Roy Harris No.2
2006: Benjamin Lees No.3
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