Yes, Bella should certainly be mentioned in a discussion about Slovak composers - he was more or less the first one. I have a few pieces by him which I remember as being quite enjoyable. By the way, as for the evolution of the Slovak symphony, it might be noteworthy that Bella actually started to compose a symphony but didn't finish it (there is just a fragment of the first movement). Then there is also a complete "Symphony in B Minor" by Bella but this is actually an orchestration of a piano sonata by Bella which was done by Vladimír Bokes in the early 1980s.

Regarding Rubbra (though this is certainly off-topic here), opinions seem to differ very much. As I said I am not really familiar with his music, but I know a music critic and composer from Vienna whose opinion on Rubbra is in fact very much the opposite of Gauk's (I remember a fervid discussion in a German music forum a few years ago). Probably I should really try some Rubbra symphonies myself, though I must admit that for my own way of listening to and thinking about music, questions like whether to rate one composer higher than the other are not really of that much interest.

No problem, of course! I just guessed that little mistake when I read "Symphony No. 5", because Vladimir Yurovsky's Symphony No. 5 is indeed an impressive work we had in our downloads quite some time ago.


I am not really familiar with Rubbra's music so that I cannot comment on your comparison. Regarding Moyzes, however, I think he has quite a broad range of roots. Here is a rough sketch of what I mean. Obviously, Slovak folk music is a major contribution, in a rather direct fashion in the early pieces and in the middle period (I mean the years around 1950 with the Gemer and the Hron Region Dances), otherwise somewhat more abstract, but it is always there in some way.

Besides that, we have to distinguish between certain periods in Moyzes' output. His early works mainly come from the romantic tradition - Moyzes studied with Vítězslav Novák, after all, and this (together with German romanticism up to Mahler and also Strauss) has certainly left some traces in his music. In the 1940s, he included some more recent influences, maybe Prokofiev indeed up to some degree (I am thinking of the Third Symphony), but still, the cyclic conception of the Fourth also makes me think of César Franck and others. What comes thereafter probably has to be regarded as Moyzes' Socialist Realist period (meant without negative connotation - Moyzes really composed some fine works here).

I think it was only from the late 1950s on that Shostakovich really left his traces in Moyzes' music, but on the other hand, from that point on it's partly quite audible. Obviously Moyzes was experimenting with somewhat more modern tendencies for a while now, culminating in the quite agressive Symphonies Nos. 8&9. As for the Shostakovich issue, we might keep in mind that Shostakovich and Moyzes were actually born in the same year, so it's probably no wonder that Moyzes is no "Shostakovich successor" but rather somebody who later on picked up some ideas of his contemporary.

It is striking that Moyzes yet returned to a more conservative idiom soon after that. The turning point is maybe the "Fires in the Mountains" Suite, which commemorates Slovak anti-Nazi resistance in the Second World War, which has much more in common with Moyzes' earlier pieces again. The following late pieces then show perfect command of the symphonic form, very well-balanced with a fine inner architecture within a freely handled tonal framework (actually, the last three symphonies have quite clear "central notes" - C, A and E, respectively). I am not sure whether this is music which is still under the influence of somebody else - finally, it's quite a personal tone in my view.

In general, I would certainly agree with you about the lyrical qualities of Moyzes' music, Kyle. I think that this is something a lot of Slovak composers seem to have in common, also as compared to their Czech colleagues.

An interesting topic! I first want to comment on some of the previous statements.

There is certainly a sort of cut in Suchoň's output as his later pieces are substantially more modern than the earlier ones. I personally certainly prefer his earlier pieces. It seems the "Psalm of the Carpathian Country" is maybe his most popular piece (I have it in three different recordings), and indeed, it is an extremely attractive and powerful piece because of its passion, a sort of confession. Of course, it is distinguished by a strong national flavour and draws a heroic image of Slovakia as a suffering but proud country. I will have to relisten to the B-A-C-H Fantasy which I currently do not have in mind. However, I remember some of Suchoň's later pieces as the Rhapsodic Suite as pretty harsh works I couldn't really come to terms with.

Alexander Moyzes is a composer I really like very much. He certainly was a great symphonist, and any of his twelve symphonies has its moments and is much worth a listen. I like the youthful spirit of the First a lot - in fact the first "full" symphony which was composed by a Slovak composer. Maybe his last three symphonies are the ones which are dearest to me. These are works which have so many magical moments in which the music somehow "looks back" with a slight touch of nostalgia and elegy, but yet there is also much confidence and optimism in it. Moyzes' String Quartets are fine as well indeed, I particularly like the Fourth (while I don't have the First, alas), which is his last work as far as I remember, and it is also characterised by this mixture of being melancholic and serene at the same time. Its last bars are in bright A Major and sound so fresh and spirited that this is almost youthful again.

We are very fortunate to have these works in excellent recordings on Marco Polo. I remember an older discussion here on the forum in which I hadn't time to participate. Somebody told he wasn't totally satisfied with those performances because of a lack of passion (if I remember correctly). Actually, I wouldn't agree here, and that's mainly for two reasons. First, the Slovak RSO and the conductor Ladislav Slovák certainly knew Moyzes in person and worked together with him, so I believe these version can claim quite a unique degree of authenticity. Second, I tend to say that the seemingly missing lack of full passion is actually in total accordance with Moyzes' music. I mean, Moyzes' music is characterised by a certain reserved manner, a tendency towards coming to a halt from time to time and then rather going inwards than outwards. It is no music, in any case, which is of pure passion and total emotional commitment, but there is also a moment of retaining "control". Thus, I think Slovák exactly delivers the music's actual character, and I tend to say his performances are near optimal.

This said, I also have to correct one little detail in Kyle's contribution. There is no Symphony No. 5 by Jurovsky - I guess that you mixed up two composers here. First, there is a Slovak composer named Šimon Jurovský (1912–1963). He composed two symphonies, and at least one of them (if not both) have been shared on this forum (or previously on UC). Now, there is also a Russian composer named Vladimir Yurovsky (1915–1972, father of the conductor Michail Jurowski). Of him, we have the Fifth Symphony among our downloads. This is certainly an excellent piece as well (but nothing Slovak).

Then, I also like Ján Cikker's music a lot. The Symphony 1945, in fact his Third Symphony, is a very fine piece, describing conflicts and the tragedy of war as well as a prospective of bright future and optimism as well. I basically like all Cikker pieces I know, however if I should point out another work from his output I might choose the Slovak Suite, which is such a gorgeous collection of songs about nature, love and village life, just very enjoyable.

I certainly like Slovak music a lot - it is often distinguished by a certain lyrical note. Other composers like Andrej Očenáš have already been mentioned, and I still know a lot more. Maybe we could point out Mikuláš Schneider-Trnavský from the somewhat older generation - his fine "Remembrance Symphony" was once available for download here (or rather on UC) as well. One generation after Moyzes, Cikker and Suchoň we have to consider Ilja Zeljenka, for example. His output is rather mixed, and there are pieces I like better and other I like less. For instance, his Symphonies Nos. 3&5 are fine pieces, while No. 4 is (in my view) a less convincing attempt to incorporate more modern techniques. Another prolific symphonist is Ján Zimmer, and I remember quite a number of his works should have been shared here.

For the moment, the last composer I want to focus on is Dezider Kardoš. He was a Moyzes pupil, and his early works certainly show the influence of his teacher. Later on, he strove for a more expressive, intense approach, but still, Slovak folk music played an important role in his music, for instance in his "Slovakophonia", which is a cycle of symphonic variations on a Goral theme. His music is rather powerful, with lots of energy, a sense of drama and motion forwards in it.

This is of course a very interesting topic. I have been collecting Soviet symphonies for years, and somewhat ironically this is also the reason why I actually feel unable to answer the basic question because there are just too many which would deserve a CD recording in my view. However, in the course of this discussion a number of points have been made on which I want to make my own comments. I am afraid this will be a longer issue, however.

So let's start with David's initial list:

Rakov, Symphonies Nos. 1&2: indeed, these are truly marvellous works. I particularly like the ambiguous atmosphere of the first, that slight breeze of melancholy which is present over almost the whole piece. Remarkably, it mostly avoids its actual key (D Major) in favour of related minor modes, so the first movement is actually in B Minor, the finale starts with a slow introduction in D Minor and so on. This is a wonderful piece of music. I would also very much like to hear Rakov's Symphony No. 4, which is from 1973. This said, I am well aware we shouldn't expect something too similar here, since Rakov's music from that period is still nothing too advanced but yet somewhat more modern, less romantic, more acerb (and possibly a little less inspired, but anyway).

Bogatyrov (or Bahatyrou, as in the Belarusian spelling), Symphonies Nos. 1&2: I only know the Second Symphony but that one is a work so full of tunes, grandeur and epic passion that I'd very much welcome a CD version. Dave, if you really have got the First from Belarus now I'd definitely be very interested in that one!

Tikotsky / Tsikotsky, Symphonies Nos. 1-6: Agreed as well. Among the three symphonies by this composer I know, my favourite is No. 6, possibly the one which is harmonically most advanced (within a strongly conservative framework, of course) and which is characterized by its robust manner with march rhythms driving the music forward most of the time.

Taktakishvili, Symphonies Nos. 1&2: These are excellent and youthful works full of energy which I use to play with greatest joy. Kyle is right about the CD availability of No. 2, however one point is to be made here: Taktakishvili revised this symphony in 1988 (while the first version is from 1953), and while Konstantin Ivanov's Melodiya version presents the original version, Svetlanov conducts the 1988 version which in particular comes with a new finale (which I personally like less than the solemn and optimist hymn-like finale of the first version). I also have to admit that I think that Svetlanov takes some of the tempi too slow, in particular the scherzo which loses much of its lively folk spirit this way.

Maiboroda, Symphonies Nos. 1-3: once again agreed, though I'd also be very interested in his fourth, which is from 1986 and bears the title "Autumn" (No. 2 is "Spring" and No. 3 is "Summer"). A "Winter Symphony" wasn't composed. In any case, the Fourth has not been recorded so far and I would be very interested in getting to know it.

Revutsky, Symphonies Nos. 1&2: yes, Revutsky's symphonies are highly enjoyable and his Second is a gorgeous piece full of folk tunes in splendid orchestral colours.

Shtogarenko / Shtoharenko, Symphonies Nos. 1-6: I also like Shtoharenko's music very music, this is Socialist Realism in a very enjoyable and attractive manner, the music has a constant drive forward and many memorable passages. It is interesting that actually the only of those symphonies which wasn't recorded by Melodiya is No. 5, which is not immediately apparent because of Shoharenko's (at first sight) rather confusing way of renumbering his symphonies over the years.

Vasilenko, Symphonies Nos. 1&2: actually I'd like to have the whole cycle, i.e. Nos. 1-5. Only No. 3 has been issued by Melodiya, this is a work for folk orchestra. Certainly a nice piece, but on the other hand possibly not really typical of Vasilenko as a symphonist. Anything by Vasilenko which I know is at least enjoyable, and it's a pity that his quite large output has largely been ignored by the recording industry. I read that his Cello Concerto has recently been performed in concert, and I had hoped a broadcast recording or something like that might pop up subsequently but in vain as it seems. Of course, the title of the Fourth sounds intriguing (it's the "Arctic" Symphony).

Ovchinnikov, Symphonies Nos. 1-5: Ovchinnikov's First is almost a stroke of genius, the Second is excellent as well. Unfortunately I only know one movement of his Third which seems to indicate this is a fine piece well. I would be very interested in that one for sure. Unfortunately, it seems Ovchinnikov's inspiration strongly declined after 1970 or so, and his later works are written in a sort of nostalgic romanticism which I don't like a lot. This said, I do know his Fourth but don't think it's in any way as good as the previous ones. Whether a Fifth really exists remains doubtful in my eyes, several sources seem to contradict each other but I haven't found certain evidence for such a piece yet.

Peiko, Golubev and Brusilovsky are favourites of mine, too. Peiko was one of the first Soviet composers I really began to explore, and I still enjoy his compact, often laconic and grotesque music a lot. Qarayev's Second would be fine indeed, noboy seems to have even a broadcast recording or so. There is also a Fourth which Qarayev wrote in collaboration with his son, and this one is pretty modernist. Regarding Bogoslovsky that's probably no priority of mine, the symphonies are mostly short and entertaining works (partly near lighter music), and No. 8 is pretty kitschy in my view (at least I find its slow movement almost unbearable). On the other hand, I know all seven Machavariani symphonies and they are truly fine. The later ones have been described as "philosophical symphonism" and that's rather fitting in my view.

Regarding Balanchivadze, I am not sure whether symphonies were really the genre in which he excelled most. In my view, Balanchivadze is best when he composes in shorter, free forms with a lot of imagery behind. The first two symphonies somehow lack substance in my view. However, if CD recordings pop up I would certainly buy them as well. Likewise, I am not sure about Shcherbachov: while his earlier works are certainly fine, the later ones are often more disappointing. I certainly much favour No. 2 over No. 5.

The same but even in a more extreme way also holds for Mosolov. Mosolov, of course, much changed his style in his later works (from 1940 on or so). This was due to political circumstances, of course. In principle, this doesn't have to mean much, as there are also plenty of conservative works written in an official manner in honour of Lenin, the Party and so on which are actually highly enjoyable - in short, in principle I don't have anything against works in an official manner, "Socialist Realism" as it was called. Mosolov, however, apparently didn't really manage this tradition so well. I don't know any later work by him which I find convincing. It is interesting that he is often referred to when it comes to wish lists like that, but I am afraid I rather share Gauk's opinion that the results are very likely to be a disappointment. Actually Northern Flowers have his Symphony in E Major on CD. I don't want to spoil anybody's enthusiasm, but I must admit that in my view this one belongs to the weakest Soviet symphonies I know - in my view of course.

If I had to point out somebody from about the same generation and with a similar background I might rather take Lev Knipper, who is actually a chameleon both in terms of style and in terms of quality as it has to be said, but there is always the chance to pick up something enjoyable among his works. His Symphony No. 13 is an example of a pretty conventionalist piece which is really fun nonetheless, tuneful and solid.

Regarding Steinberg, I absolutely agree it's a pity the series with his symphonies wasn't continued, in particular since I believe the most enjoyable works were actually still to come. There is of course a recording of his Fourth (the "Turksib") circulating. This was made by a friend of mine years ago. Alas, it's not fully complete (the beginning is really missing here) but it proves that this symphony is such a fine, colourful and memorable piece that it's really a shame it wasn't brought out on disc in the end.

Tsintsadze, Symphonies Nos. 1-5: yes, this is very likely to be great stuff, Tsintsadze composed many works on a high level, always proving a fine balance between complexity, thoughtfulness and passion. I'd buy such a release at once.

Regarding the recording of Arutyunyan's fine symphony, I think I have a guess where it comes from. A few years ago, another music friend of mine found a tape with the Gerghiev recording among some sorted out items of a Berlin library. He picked it up, digitalized it and then forwarded it to a few people (me included, which is why I have this symphony in two version since I also have tha Maluntsyan version which was on a Melodiya). As it seems anything you share with somebody else might pop up somewhere else at some points (classic-online or also YouTube - there is also a substantial number of works on YouTube which actually come from uploads I did in the past, while I never uploaded anything on YouTube or was even asked whether my uploads could be used for that) I believe it might be just that version I spoke of.

Maybe I will add some symphonies I would like to see on disc myself at a later point.

I announced the following symphony by one of the major Turkmen composers a long time ago - actually still on UC as I have to admit, but anyway, here is what I believe to be a very fine, attractive, passionate and colourful work which proves how enjoyable conservative Soviet symphonism really can be:

Weli Muhadow (also Russian version: Veli Mukhatov, 1916–2005)
Symphony No. 2 "Heroic (To the Memory of the Heroes who Died in the Great Patriotic War)" (1980)
USSR Ministry of Culture Symphony Orchestra / Gennady Rozhdestvensky
http://www.mediafire.com/download/o8xfblvjaps848a/Muhadow%20Symphony%202.rar

Taken from a Melodiya LP.

I cannot resist the opportunity of pointing out that Muhadow's son Serdar (* 1945, now living in Turkey and mostly spelled Muhatov there) is also a composer whose own Symphony No. 2 has once been available on a Melodiya as well (catalogue number S10 16459). This is one of the very few Soviet symphonies on Melodiya which I don't have, alas. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Colin,

no doubt that you are correct with respect to the popularity of 20th century German piano concertos in the sense of how regularly they get played in concert. So I would certainly agree with you that there is no such concerto which is just approximately as popular as the ones you mentioned. (At the same time, I am having some problems with the term "great" but I think I'll keep that apart since I believe our opinions do not substantially differ here anyway.)

The point you make with your very last sentence is interesting as well, however (in particular for the cases of Nielsen and Sibelius). It is somehow remarkable that there is quite a number of 20th century composers who did write concertos but not for piano. One could even argue that also in case of Shostakovich, his piano concertos are in a way different from his other concertos (which is, of course, no statement about their quality). Or take Weinberg (unlike some other members of this forum - as I recently read in a discussion here - I believe that Weinberg was a truly great composer): the piano was his own instrument, but though he wrote concertos for cello, violin, flute or clarinet, there is none for piano in fact.

Coming back to the Germans, among those you mention I might point out that I know some persons who believe those by Petersen and Höller are excellent, and I think I agree with them. I also like the one by Butting a lot, though it is interesting that this concerto is a lighter work as compared to many other works of the same composer – quite on purpose, as Butting's concept was really to compose a lighter and presumably entertaining work here (nevertheless it's fine and very well done). Kochan's Piano Concerto is an early work, but it already deals with the Shostakovich and Bartók influences in a notably own (and fresh) tone. Cilenšek's Konzertstück explores the possibility of dodecaphony coupled with bold rhythms and expressive gestures.

I might upload the Ernst Hermann Meyer Konzertante Sinfonie which I previously mentioned in a while as I consider this one to be a great and rather deep piece – a piece of a more symphonic facture (as the title already indicated) and also not fully corresponding to the usual formal standards (a very long, slow and conflictual first movement leading to a contrasting joyous Allegro, to be followed by two pretty short movements of which the last one finally solves the basic conflicts of the piece in a surprisingly quiet and peaceful manner).

Colin,

I'm trying to write down the thought which came to my mind when reading your statements. Things are not that easy for sure.

It is obvious that there is a certain cut in the German music tradition which roughly corresponds to the Third Reich, World War Two and the time thereafter. This not only affects piano concertos but also symphonies and many more of the traditional music genres. Things could be sketched as follows: of course, the Nazis coming to power meant a first significant cut within German music: composers of Jewish descent or from politically or aesthetically different corners left the country, were persecuted or murdered in the end. It is obvious that these events already altered the German music scene.

However, after the war, another cut was done when in reaction to the conservative Nazi music aesthetics now avant-garde became predominant at least in Western Germany. Composers distanced themselves from tradition and strove to create something entirely new now. For instance, it was said that it wasn't possible to compose anything tonal any more after Auschwitz. So, the leading German composers, those who taught in conservatories and universities and those who actually got public attention were those who strongly rejected tradition: Stockhausen, Boulez (even if he is a French composer he is very much respected and present in Germany), Schnebel and so on. It has to be said that still in the 1980s, a composer like Manfred Trojahn was quite offended because of writing symphonies!

So, one reason why there is an obvious break with German tradition is that this is just what the predominant (Western) German composers intended.

On the other hand, it is also true that your list is certainly not complete. I have browsed my collection and actually found about twice as many German piano concertos from 20th century which you didn't list as compared to those you listed (though I am even not specialized in collection German 20th century piano concertos). Some of those concertos are rather obscure, of course, but on the other hand, there are also some items which were issued on CD which you didn't include.

For instance, if we look at Eastern Germany (where the sitation of the music scene was certainly different at least in the first decades after the war), several piano concertos were issued on disc which you didn't list: Günter Kochan's early Piano Concerto, the ones by Fritz Geißler and Friedrich Goldmann, the two concertos by Kurt Schwaen which were later followed by a "Concert pour la jeunesse" for Piano and Strings, then there is Johann Cilenšek's Konzertstück which must certainly be counted as a concerto as well. Others like Ernst Hermann Meyer's excellent Konzertante Sinfonie for Piano and Orchestra or Wilhelm Neef's two concertos once were available on LP.

There are still considerably more (Harald Genzmer wrote three concertos and two concertinos, Weismann's two concertos were once available for download on UC, as were those by Walter Abendroth, Theo Mackeben and others). Once might also argue about whether popularity really corresponds to quality, I mean several of the concertos you list and also of those I mentioned are actually really good even if they are not that frequently played. Take the ones by Reger and Pfitzner, which are both excellent.

For getting an idea about the richness of the piano concerto repertoire in general, the following list is very helpful:
http://www.siue.edu/~aho/discography/Discography.pdf
You'll also see many 20th century German concertos listed there.

I have that LP, the American ambassador in question is J. William Middendorf II (* 1924). However, I have to admit that I really find these works (I mean the Middendorfs) pretty uninteresting indeed, composed in a very undemanding manner, basically not much more than simple melodies accompanied by similarly simple harmonies.

First, I wish to thank Karl and John a lot as well. I haven't focused too much on Hovhaness' music so far, but it is truly wonderful to get so many symphonies at once.

Now, I only played Nos. 1&67 so far, but in reaction to Schuylkill's alert I tried out the files in question as well and it is true that the same also holds for me: the first two movements of No. 27 and the complete No. 26 are actually not present, that is, there are mp3s with certain durations but nothing can be heard when playing them. Seems to be some kind of error.

Roger,

in case of Hungarian composers well-known in our Western hemisphere, we are used to our way of placing the family name at the back because the sources we are familiar with just do so (CDs, concert programs etc.). However, if you look at Hungarian sources, they are of course also reversing names here. For instance, take a look at the Hungarian wikipedia article about Kodály:
https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kod%C3%A1ly_Zolt%C3%A1n
Thoughout the whole text, he is referred to as "Kodály Zoltán" there! It's just the same with Bartók:
https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart%C3%B3k_B%C3%A9la

I don't speak Latvian myself, but I remember that (our member) Latvian once said the text is an eulogy for Lenin. Moreover, I somehow have in mind the symphony is dedicated to Lenin's 100th birthday, so this seems to make sense. Given these circumstances, it is of course a bit strange it is actually the only of Ivanovs' later symphonies which Melodiya did not bring out on LP! In any case, I also like this symphony a lot. It is distinguished by a special atmosphere, serious and solemn at the same time, somewhat remote and thoughtful especially in the outer movements.

Roger,

no, nothing enigmatic about Hanuš's Symphony No. 2, the reason why Colin didn't upload it is (as I guess) simply that it is commercially available on a Supraphon CD as part of the "Karel Ančerl Gold Edition". Check here, for instance:
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Karel-Ancerl-Gold-Edition-Vol-41/hnum/4896830
A pleasant and enjoyable work (probably the most accessible Hanuš symphony), I can absolutely recommend buying the disc.

Colin, fine to hear that. With some more free time at the moment, fulfilling requests is much easier at present (as you probably already saw in case of Eklund's symphonies!). :)

Nikolai Peiko (1916–1995)
Symphony No. 6 in E Minor (1972)
USSR Large Radio and TV Symphony Orchestra / Alexander Dmitriev
http://www.mediafire.com/?rdbk8uph2xeiaw2

This is once again taken from a Melodiya.

Great to see you appreciate my Kilpatrick uploads. I think that his music is quite interesting: despite its (partly extreme) brevity, it shows a unique tone, it's robust, bold music with bouncing rhythms, at the same time pretty tuneful and melodious. Regarding the three pieces I uploaded, it might be audible that the two purely orchestral works have been written at a later point, since certain tendencies which can already be found in the Violin Concerto are still more elaborated here.

On the whole, Kilpatrick is a nice discovery for me, it's original and fresh music which deserves to be heard. Getting more of it would be welcome, of course, but this really appears to be a very vein hope. In any case, his output must be large, given the opus number of the Fifth...