The Art-Music Forum

Little-known music of all eras => Downloads discussion => Topic started by: Elroel on September 09, 2017, 11:29:22 am



Title: The Karelian Roine Rautio
Post by: Elroel on September 09, 2017, 11:29:22 am
The annexation of most of Karelia by Stalin in 1939 and again in 1945 is no argument; in that case, all German composers from Eastern Prussia or even the Baltics would have to been included too. Do you really post Heinz Tiessen (1887–1971, from Könisgberg) or Otto Nicolai, or Eduard Erdmann (1896-1958), under the Soviet section?  ::)
[/quote]

Christo's comment points the difficulty. Rautio was a Karelian, a people very close to the Fins. They formed, together with the Suedes in western Finland, a country, that included most part of the Karelian soil.
There is only one reason, imho, to place him in the Soviet (Russian) area if he was educated in the USSR and was a part of the musical life of that union.

Thanks for posting the music


Title: Re: The Karelian Roine Rautio
Post by: Christo on September 13, 2017, 02:22:39 am
Fellow member Tetsugakusha kindly informs me, that: "Rautio's father moved from Finland to the USSR in 1922 because he wanted to be a Soviet citizen, he wrote the anthem of the Karelo-Finnish Soviet Socialist Republic, his son Roine was born in 1934 as a Soviet citizen, lived as a Soviet citizen and died as a Soviet citizen. Roine Rautio could not possibly have had any more connection with the Soviet Union than he really had."

Which is very interesting to read - I myself didn't know anything about Rautio, except for an impression of some of his music. Of course, 'having a connection' with the Soviet Union doesn't change one's nationality - many Europeans in the 1930s had a strong 'connection' and even ended up living in Moscow, but that couldn't change their nationalities - but in the case of Rautio, there's a point. Good to learn.  ;)





Title: Re: The Karelian Roine Rautio
Post by: Tetsugakusha75 on September 14, 2017, 05:16:20 am
Maybe it really was the best decision to place Rautio both in the Russian-Soviet and in the Finnish section - for though he was a Soviet citizen all his life, the musical idiom of his symphony can hardly be labeled as Socialist realism. The land of Sibelius could not be far away where such music was composed. If Rautio is counted as Finnish because his father was, one might as well count Beethoven as Dutch or Stravinsky as Ukrainian. But I admit Rautio's musical language was definitely Finnish  :)


Title: Re: The Karelian Roine Rautio
Post by: Christo on September 14, 2017, 07:27:14 am
one might as well count Beethoven as Dutch or Stravinsky as Ukrainian
Beethoven's family stemmed from Mechelen, present-day Belgium, 'Austrian' Netherlands at the time (and never 'Dutch'). The point of course is, that it was long before the 19th Century created 'nationality'.
What I now learn, is that the son, Roine Rautio (1934-1961), stemmed not from Karelia, but from East Karelia, Petrozavodsk, which was never part of Finland. In that case it's highly unlikely he ever held Finnish nationality.


Title: Re: The Karelian Roine Rautio
Post by: dhibbard on September 14, 2017, 03:58:43 pm
one might as well count Beethoven as Dutch or Stravinsky as Ukrainian
Beethoven's family stemmed from Mechelen, present-day Belgium, 'Austrian' Netherlands at the time (and never 'Dutch'). The point of course is, that it was long before the 19th Century created 'nationality'.
What I now learn, is that the son, Roine Rautio (1934-1961), stemmed not from Karelia, but from East Karelia, Petrozavodsk, which was never part of Finland. In that case it's highly unlikely he ever held Finnish nationality.

some history from Wiki:  During the Finnish occupation of East Karelia in the Continuation War (1941–1944), the occupier chose to style the city Äänislinna (or Ääneslinna), rather than the traditional Petroskoi. The new name was a literal translation of Onegaborg, the name of a settlement marked on a 16th-century map by Abraham Ortelius near the present-day city, Ääninen being the Finnish toponym for Lake Onega.

The city was occupied by Finnish troops for nearly three years before it was retaken by Soviet forces on June 28, 1944. The Finns set up internment camps for civilians of Russian ethnicity which they operated until the Red Army liberated the area. Six camps were set up in Petrozavodsk, with 23,984 civilians of Russian ethnicity confined in them. Civilians of Finnish, Karelian or other Finnic descent were not interned into these camps. Some of the camps were old Soviet camps and some only fenced city areas.

In 1977, Petrozavodsk was the epicenter of what is called the Petrozavodsk phenomenon.


Title: Re: The Karelian Roine Rautio
Post by: Tetsugakusha75 on September 14, 2017, 04:57:27 pm
The point about Beethoven and Mechelen is correct, but I think you understand what I mean. Roine Rautio definitely never held Finnish nationality in the sense of having been a citizen of Finland. But anyway, can you tell exactly what a nation is? It is nothing exact, and there's not much sense in trying to be exact about something that isn't exact in itself. Just try to say if Mozart was German or Austrian.


Title: Re: The Karelian Roine Rautio
Post by: Tetsugakusha75 on September 14, 2017, 05:00:50 pm
"Beethoven was, like me, a Dutchman" (Willem Mengelberg)  ;)


Title: Re: The Karelian Roine Rautio
Post by: Christo on September 14, 2017, 06:04:44 pm
"Beethoven was, like me, a Dutchman" (Willem Mengelberg)  ;)
.... because Mengelberg was a German. ;D I think that in his days 'Dutchman' could refer to all of the Low Countries; now it does no longer.

some history from Wiki:  During the Finnish occupation of East Karelia in the Continuation War (1941–1944), the occupier chose to style the city Äänislinna (or Ääneslinna), rather than the traditional Petroskoi. The new name was a literal translation of Onegaborg, the name of a settlement marked on a 16th-century map by Abraham Ortelius near the present-day city, Ääninen being the Finnish toponym for Lake Onega.

The city was occupied by Finnish troops for nearly three years before it was retaken by Soviet forces on June 28, 1944. The Finns set up internment camps for civilians of Russian ethnicity which they operated until the Red Army liberated the area. Six camps were set up in Petrozavodsk, with 23,984 civilians of Russian ethnicity confined in them. Civilians of Finnish, Karelian or other Finnic descent were not interned into these camps. Some of the camps were old Soviet camps and some only fenced city areas.

In 1977, Petrozavodsk was the epicenter of what is called the Petrozavodsk phenomenon.
Great to learn, many thanks!


Title: Re: The Karelian Roine Rautio
Post by: Tetsugakusha75 on September 14, 2017, 06:55:04 pm
Mengelberg successfully flattered his audience with that bonmot - an audience that maybe still remembered Brahms' kindly devastating "You're nice people, but bad musicians"  ;D


Title: Re: The Karelian Roine Rautio
Post by: dhibbard on September 14, 2017, 08:21:41 pm
Speaking of Karelians... I was curious about the Soviet-Karelian composer Gelmer Sinisalo
 

from wiki:
The following article is from The Great Soviet Encyclopedia (1979). It might be outdated or ideologically biased.
Sinisalo, Gel’mer-Rainer Nesterovich

Born June 14, 1920, in Zlatoust, Cheliabinsk Oblast. Soviet composer and flutist. People’s Artist of the USSR (1978).

Sinisalo graduated from the Petrozavodsk Music School in 1939. He studied composition with N. I. Peiko at the Moscow Conservatory from 1952 to 1954 and with V. V. Voloshinov at the Leningrad Conservatory in 1954 and 1955. In the period 1935 to 1944 he was a member of various orchestras in Petrozavodsk. From 1944 to 1956, Sinisalo was a member of the symphony orchestra of Petrozavodsk Radio; at the same time he served as artistic director and conductor of the Kantele State Song and Dance Company.

Sinisalo taught classes in composition and flute at the Petrozavodsk Music School from 1948 to 1957. In 1956 he became chairman of the administrative board of the Union of Composers of the Karelian ASSR. Sinisalo was the composer of Sampo, the first Karelian ballet (1959, based on themes from the Karelian-Finnish epic Kalevala). His other works include the ballet I Recall a Wondrous Moment (1962), the cantata In Defense of Peace, the symphony Heroes of the Forest, and the suite Karelian Scenes.

Sinisalo has received three orders and various medals.

which he was clearly a Soviet composer...??!?


Title: Re: The Karelian Roine Rautio
Post by: Christo on September 15, 2017, 07:46:00 am
Mengelberg successfully flattered his audience with that bonmot - an audience that maybe still remembered Brahms' kindly devastating "You're nice people, but bad musicians"  ;D
Didn't know this one, not caring much for Brahms myself  ;D - nor for the German Romantics and later Romantics in general, for that matter.
I do know they considered Britain 'das Land ohne Musik' - where again I myself know no richer musical environment than the British musical world. Which is to say: beauty is in the ear of the beholder.  ;)


Title: Re: The Karelian Roine Rautio
Post by: Neil McGowan on September 15, 2017, 08:31:19 am
near the present-day city, Ääninen being the Finnish toponym for Lake Onega.

 
Good luck with promoting Tchaikovsky's Evgeny Ääninen    :-)


Title: Re: The Karelian Roine Rautio
Post by: ahinton on September 15, 2017, 02:37:02 pm
near the present-day city, Ääninen being the Finnish toponym for Lake Onega.

 
Good luck with promoting Tchaikovsky's Evgeny Ääninen    :-)
!!!


Title: Re: The Karelian Roine Rautio
Post by: dhibbard on March 21, 2018, 05:17:38 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DJwNeToAMg