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Assorted items => General musical discussion => Topic started by: Dundonnell on November 26, 2016, 10:16:54 pm



Title: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: Dundonnell on November 26, 2016, 10:16:54 pm
Sir Michael Tippett, in common with many other composers, effectively suppressed a large number of early compositions. In fact the Concerto for Double String Orchestra, composed between 1938 and 1939, when Tippett was 34 is the earliest orchestral piece we hear today. The String Quartet No.1 of 1934-35 was revised in 1943 and the Piano Sonata No.1 of 1936-38 also survive as part of the acknowledged body of his compositions. Most of the music he composed between the mid 1920s and late 1930s however remained in manuscript and some of these pieces are lost-including a Concerto in D for flutes, oboe, horn and strings from 1928-30.

One early work which has survived is the Symphony in B flat composed between 1933 and 1934. Tippett rejected this early symphony as "too Sibelian".

The BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra conducted by Martyn Brabbins has embarked on a Tippett symphonic cycle with both public performances and recordings for Hyperion. I was fortunate enough to attend the performance of the Symphony No.1 in Glasgow on Thursday. The first symphony is not often performed (this was only its fourth performance in Scotland and its first since 1975) but it is a powerful work and I think that Brabbins gave a better, more passionate rendering than either Sir Colin Davis or Richard Hickox in the two versions that are available on cd. It certainly augers well for the Hyperion recording.

What is also exciting however is that there will be at least a public performance at some point (which will be broadcast) of the Symphony in B flat. The Tippett Foundation has given its agreement to the revival of the early Symphony.

Over the last few years we have been able to hear for the first time a lot of the early music of a number of British composers-Vaughan Williams has been an obvious example-and the rediscovery of such early music has gone a long way to expand and enhance our knowledge of the development of these composers' music. Hearing the early Tippett symphony should be, at the very least, an interesting experience.


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: guest145 on November 27, 2016, 01:22:17 am
Wonderful news! Looking forward to the early symphony!


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: Gauk on November 27, 2016, 10:42:19 am
I find early Tippett much more interesting than late Tippett!


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: Dundonnell on November 27, 2016, 04:04:12 pm
I find early Tippett much more interesting than late Tippett!

As-unsurprisingly ;D-do I.


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: ahinton on November 27, 2016, 05:08:38 pm
Tippett's not the only English composer to have written an early and unnumbered Symphony in B flat. Another who did so around a quarter century after Tippett's was much later to write a tribute to Tippett for his 80th birthday in the form of a short work for string quartet.

Guess who!


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: Dundonnell on November 27, 2016, 06:28:04 pm
Tippett's not the only English composer to have written an early and unnumbered Symphony in B flat. Another who did so around a quarter century after Tippett's was much later to write a tribute to Tippett for his 80th birthday in the form of a short work for string quartet.

Guess who!

I am guessing that it could well have been you, Alistair ??? Although are you not described as a "Scottish composer" ???


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: ahinton on November 27, 2016, 06:47:09 pm
Tippett's not the only English composer to have written an early and unnumbered Symphony in B flat. Another who did so around a quarter century after Tippett's was much later to write a tribute to Tippett for his 80th birthday in the form of a short work for string quartet.

Guess who!

I am guessing that it could well have been you, Alistair ???
Oh, heavens no, not me! Had it been me, I'd have had to have exhibited extreme precocity! (and, in any case, I have yet to write a symphony in or no in any key whatsoever!). The symphony concerned was written in the late 1950s / early 1960s, as far as I recall (and in any case I did not compose such a tribute for quartet in the 1980s either).

Although are you not described as a "Scottish composer" ???
Well, I'm certainly not an English one!


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: Dundonnell on November 27, 2016, 10:57:47 pm
Ok....my apologies ;D  (I was counting from the date of the Tippett Symphony No.1 instead of the Tippett Symphony in B flat ::))

So....late 1950s/early 1960s. English composer. Early work, composed with a key signature. Presumably born then in the 1930s.

........oh, this is SO annoying!! I cannot think who it could be ::)

You wouldn't care to drop another clue, would you ???


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: ahinton on November 28, 2016, 07:14:02 am
Ok....my apologies ;D  (I was counting from the date of the Tippett Symphony No.1 instead of the Tippett Symphony in B flat ::))

So....late 1950s/early 1960s. English composer. Early work, composed with a key signature. Presumably born then in the 1930s.

........oh, this is SO annoying!! I cannot think who it could be ::)

You wouldn't care to drop another clue, would you ???
Just a whisker after the 1930s, since you ask! Hope that helps!


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: autoharp on November 28, 2016, 01:27:15 pm
Phew! Not Sorabji then!


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: Dundonnell on November 28, 2016, 03:05:50 pm
Ok....my apologies ;D  (I was counting from the date of the Tippett Symphony No.1 instead of the Tippett Symphony in B flat ::))

So....late 1950s/early 1960s. English composer. Early work, composed with a key signature. Presumably born then in the 1930s.

........oh, this is SO annoying!! I cannot think who it could be ::)

You wouldn't care to drop another clue, would you ???
Just a whisker after the 1930s, since you ask! Hope that helps!

Not in the slightest, I am afraid.


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: ahinton on November 28, 2016, 06:04:30 pm
Phew! Not Sorabji then!
Good grief no!


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: ahinton on November 28, 2016, 06:05:57 pm
Ok....my apologies ;D  (I was counting from the date of the Tippett Symphony No.1 instead of the Tippett Symphony in B flat ::))

So....late 1950s/early 1960s. English composer. Early work, composed with a key signature. Presumably born then in the 1930s.

........oh, this is SO annoying!! I cannot think who it could be ::)

You wouldn't care to drop another clue, would you ???
Just a whisker after the 1930s, since you ask! Hope that helps!

Not in the slightest, I am afraid.
OK. Well, the composer is still alive but has written no other symphonies. Hows about that then?


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: calyptorhynchus on November 28, 2016, 07:32:41 pm
Can we call this one Tippett's Symphony No.0?


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: ahinton on November 28, 2016, 10:33:11 pm
Can we call this one Tippett's Symphony No.0?
I don't particularly see why not...


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: autoharp on November 29, 2016, 12:22:55 am
Just a whisker after the 1930s, since you ask! Hope that helps!

Cor!  Must be Geoffrey Burgon!


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: Dundonnell on November 29, 2016, 02:43:39 am
Just a whisker after the 1930s, since you ask! Hope that helps!

Cor!  Must be Geoffrey Burgon!

Sadly, Geoffrey Burgon died in 2010. So....not him.

I am not terribly knowledgeable about modern British composers who are not symphonists. As I am deducing that this may be a composer whose idiom became much more "advanced" as he got older I doubt very much whether I shall be able to identify him.......certainly without more clues ::)


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: ahinton on November 29, 2016, 04:54:11 am
Just a whisker after the 1930s, since you ask! Hope that helps!

Cor!  Must be Geoffrey Burgon!

Sadly, Geoffrey Burgon died in 2010. So....not him.

I am not terribly knowledgeable about modern British composers who are not symphonists. As I am deducing that this may be a composer whose idiom became much more "advanced" as he got older I doubt very much whether I shall be able to identify him.......certainly without more clues ::)
Well, put it this way - not only did this composer write no more symphonies, he also wrote nothing more in B flat (at least as far as I know)...


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: Dundonnell on November 29, 2016, 01:56:21 pm
.......and that is a CLUE ??? ??? ::)

Alistair.....I give up :-[


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: shamus on November 29, 2016, 02:14:17 pm
Tired of this.


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: ahinton on November 29, 2016, 02:16:01 pm
.......and that is a CLUE ??? ??? ::)

Alistaur.....I give up :-[
You make me sound like a prehistoric creature (which I'm not quite - yet...)

Well, it was at least something of a clue. I'll give you another one; his surname is rather longer than that of most other English composers born in the 1940s that spring to mind. That ought to give it away!


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: ahinton on November 29, 2016, 02:16:48 pm
Tired of this.
I'd not realised that you were involved in it!


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: Dundonnell on November 29, 2016, 02:57:08 pm
Brian Ferneyhough ???

It MUST be Ferneyhough. He composed an Adagissimo for string quartet for Tippett's 80th birthday!!  .....and he has a BEARD!!

He wrote a Symphony in B flat ??? ??? ::) ::) ::)

.........yep!! Written when he was 16.

I doubt that I have ever heard a note of Ferneyhough's music ::)

.....oh well-I got there in the end ;D


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: ahinton on November 29, 2016, 04:58:48 pm
Brian Ferneyhough ???

It MUST be Ferneyhough. He composed an Adagissimo for string quartet for Tippett's 80th birthday!!  .....and he has a BEARD!!

He wrote a Symphony in B flat ??? ??? ::) ::) ::)

.........yep!! Written when he was 16.

I doubt that I have ever heard a note of Ferneyhough's music ::)

.....oh well-I got there in the end ;D
You are indeed correct! I doubt that any of us will ever hear it, though!

Never mind, we will at last be able to hear Tippett's Symphony in B flat, of which he seemed quite proud for some time before the poor reception of its score might have contributed to his ultimate disavowal of it; that should prove interesting at the very least.


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: Gauk on November 29, 2016, 06:06:51 pm
A shame!

I have heard some of Ferneyhough's music, and find it, let's say, invigorating. A thing I have noticed is that when anything by Ferneyhough is on a concert programme, there seems to be a dedicated claque in attendance, who applaud very loudly. I am suspicious that this is a statement along the lines of, "Look at me, I'm clever enough to appreciate this".


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: ahinton on November 29, 2016, 06:09:21 pm
A shame!

I have heard some of Ferneyhough's music, and find it, let's say, invigorating. A thing I have noticed is that when anything by Ferneyhough is on a concert programme, there seems to be a dedicated claque in attendance, who applaud very loudly. I am suspicious that this is a statement along the lines of, "Look at me, I'm clever enough to appreciate this".
There appears arguably to be the risk of such a danger with the performance of certain music and it is an unfortunate as it is unwelcome and serves to contribute towards a sense of divisiveness at the very least.


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: Dundonnell on November 30, 2016, 12:14:56 am
Can we call this one Tippett's Symphony No.0?

Like Bruckner ??? (And yes I do know that the Study Symphony in F minor is sometimes referred to as the Symphony No. 00).

I am not sure how far Tippett would value the comparison ??? But maybe he would.


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: calyptorhynchus on November 28, 2017, 03:03:23 am
So, 2017 nearly over and this symphony has not yet been broadcast.

 >:(


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: Dundonnell on November 28, 2017, 02:08:13 pm
So, 2017 nearly over and this symphony has not yet been broadcast.

 >:(

It is being given its first performance in Glasgow on Thursday 1st February 2018 by the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra under Martyn Brabbins. I am planning to attend :) I presume that the concert will be broadcast. The recording should be made around the same time. When it is issued is of course anyone's guess!


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: calyptorhynchus on November 28, 2017, 08:02:52 pm
Good to have a date!

 ;)


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: calyptorhynchus on February 02, 2018, 07:29:36 am
Just posted a recording here.  ;D


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: Dashiell2007 on July 16, 2018, 11:59:12 pm
Where? What am I missing?


Title: Re: Sir Michael Tippett's Symphony in B flat
Post by: Dundonnell on July 17, 2018, 12:57:20 pm
Where? What am I missing?

You need to go to the Downloads by Nationality section of the forum, then to British and Irish Music within that section. You will find the Tippett link on page 14.