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Little-known music of all eras => New recordings => Topic started by: savoir_faire on November 03, 2016, 03:13:03 pm



Title: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: savoir_faire on November 03, 2016, 03:13:03 pm
Hurrah, at long last, and in stereo!!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Daniel-Jones-Symphonies-Nos-10/dp/B01MQD705P/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1478182287&sr=8-1&keywords=lyrita (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Daniel-Jones-Symphonies-Nos-10/dp/B01MQD705P/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1478182287&sr=8-1&keywords=lyrita)


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: Dundonnell on November 03, 2016, 06:54:17 pm
For some strange reason the link you provided didn't work for me-it took me to another site altogether ::)

However I found the forthcoming cd on the Amazon site eventually. (When I copied the url from the Amazon website the link didn't work either ::))

Symphonies Nos.1 and 10 :)  The longest of the Jones symphonies (No.1)-at 50 minutes-and one of the shorter later symphonies-19 minutes.

Wonderful news; I could not be better pleased and the release gets an unreserved and fulsome welcome fro me ;D :) Neither of these symphonies has ever been on cd.

(Now just to hope that Nos. 2, 3, 5, 11, 12 and the Symphony "In Memoriam John Fussell" will follow at some point ;D  Nos. 2, 3 and 5 are "big" works-43, 30 and 42 minutes respectively; the last three are shorter at 19, 17 and 27 minutes each.)


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: Latvian on November 06, 2016, 10:24:18 pm
Wonderful news!


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: Gauk on November 07, 2016, 08:56:45 am
At last!


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: Dundonnell on November 08, 2016, 05:04:03 pm
Daniel Jones is one of 13 British symphonists born between 1900 and 1925 who wrote five or more symphonies.

These composers might be-very roughly-grouped into:

(a) "Romantics": William Alwyn (born 1905)-5 symphonies, all recorded, multiple versions; George Lloyd (born 1913)-12 symphonies, all recorded; Richard Arnell (born 1917)-7
                  symphonies, all recorded; Arthur Butterworth (born 1923)-7 symphonies, 4 on cd

(b) "Serialists/Modified Serialists": Benjamin Frankel (born 1906)-8 symphonies, all recorded; Humphrey Searle (born 1915)-5 symphonies, all recorded; Peter Racine Fricker (born
                   1920)-5 symphonies, 2 on cd

(c) "Tonalists": Edmund Rubbra (born 1901)-11 symphonies, all recorded; Arnold Cooke (born 1906)-6 symphonies, 4 on cd; William Wordsworth (born 1908)-8 symphonies, 4 on
                   cd;Daniel Jones (born 1912)-13 symphonies, 7 on cd (including the forthcoming Lyrita release); Sir Malcolm Arnold (born 1921)-9 symphonies, all recorded, multiple
                   versions; Ruth Gipps (born 1921)-5 symphonies, 1 on cd; Robert Simpson (born 1921)-11 symphonies, all recorded

Of course, I freely accept that these are very crude groupings and that there are differences (considerable in some cases) between the idioms used by these composers within groups and indeed between different symphonies composed throughout their lives by individual composers.

I have been teased at times for my (excessive? ;D) enthusiasm for many of these composers' works. But I do think that the symphonies of Daniel Jones rank very high within the body of symphonies composed by his (rough) contemporaries. I do think, for example, that they are more impressive and more interesting than the symphonies of Arnold Cooke ;D
It would therefore be "good" to have them all on cd.



Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: Latvian on November 08, 2016, 07:58:03 pm
A nice listing and stylistic breakdown, Colin.

However, let's not forget Ruth Gipps, born 1921, with 5 symphonies to her credit!


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: Dundonnell on November 08, 2016, 10:13:14 pm
A nice listing and stylistic breakdown, Colin.

However, let's not forget Ruth Gipps, born 1921, with 5 symphonies to her credit!

Indeed...sorry! Where would you place her in the above grouping? (c) ?


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: Latvian on November 09, 2016, 01:10:19 pm
Probably (c), possibly (a). I haven't listened to anything of hers in a while, so I don't have a clear impression at the moment.


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: Dundonnell on November 09, 2016, 03:05:26 pm
Probably (c), possibly (a). I haven't listened to anything of hers in a while, so I don't have a clear impression at the moment.

I agree. (c) it is.


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: Alex Bozman on November 09, 2016, 08:06:19 pm
I'm curious as to what features are suggested to distinguish a Romantic from a Tonalist in this division? 


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: Gauk on November 10, 2016, 08:05:36 am
I'm curious as to what features are suggested to distinguish a Romantic from a Tonalist in this division? 

I don't think it's a useful division. Another forum has twisted itself in knots trying to define romanticism and failing. Very roughly, romanticism prioritises emotion over form. Brahms, for instance, is regarded as a classicist rather than a romantic, though he gets lumped in with the romantics by dint of temporal association.

It's easier to draw the line between those who converted to serialism and those who didn't.


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: Dundonnell on November 10, 2016, 07:31:14 pm
When I set up these groupings I acknowledged that they were "very rough" and "very crude". The so-called "Romantics" included composers whose music is mostly more lyrical than the so-called "Tonalists" but the main point of the post was simply to identify the major symphonists with at least five symphonies each born between 1900 and 1925 and to identify those whose symphonies were on cd. Dividing them into 'groups' was no more than to avoid a simple list of thirteen names. Malcolm Arnold's earlier symphonies, for example, are quite different from Nos. 7 and 8 in particular.

I accept that the distinctions may not be useful. If so.....ignore them. May main point was to emphasise the point that, of those composers named, Daniel Jones has as genuine a case to be regarded as one of the most important whose symphonies have not all been recorded and are on cd.


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: northern on November 10, 2016, 09:52:36 pm
What about that well known tonal romanticist Denis ApIvor (1916-2004) and his five unrecorded symphonies.

Anyway commiserations to Cilgwyn - Daniel Jones' Symphony No. 1 is not No.2, is it ;D? Maybe that'll be next, or maybe not!!


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: Gauk on November 10, 2016, 11:48:55 pm
All the same, a long time ago there should have been a box set of the complete symphonies in new recordings. It's a ridiculous oversight that there is not.


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: cilgwyn on November 11, 2016, 12:45:20 pm
What about that well known tonal romanticist Denis ApIvor (1916-2004) and his five unrecorded symphonies.

Anyway commiserations to Cilgwyn - Daniel Jones' Symphony No. 1 is not No.2, is it ;D? Maybe that'll be next, or maybe not!!
;D Thanks for the sympathy! I must admit,I would have preferred a recording of No 2! The First is the only one that I haven't really liked. Not that I don't,at all. It just goes on a bit! Like me sometimes!!  ::) ;D Still,it is his First essay in the form (as far as I know?) and it needed to be recorded. I might like it better now in it's new shiny silver form,with the tracks detailed in the booklet,instead of a cd-r with a bit of scribbling on it?! Since a few of them are available in old,but very decent recordings,Lyrita won't have that many premiere recordings (on cd)to release. But as 'northern' might say......"maybe not!" :( ;D


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: Dundonnell on November 30, 2016, 11:30:56 pm
I am informed that following the January release of the Daniel Jones Symphonies Nos. 1 and 10, Nos. 2, 3, 5, 11 and 12 are being prepared for release in 2017/2018-all in the performances by the BBC Welsh Symphony Orchestra under Bryden Thomson.

This is one of the best pieces of musical news I have heard for a long time......so I shall go away and cheer with maximum enthusiasm  ;D ;D


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: cilgwyn on December 01, 2016, 10:40:58 am
I totally and utterly agree! :) :) Bad news for my bank balance,mind! :( So many releases suddenly. Holbrooke from Cpo,and another one on the horizon. A release of Sacheverell Coke Piano concertos,at some point (next year?) More Havergal Brian from Naxos (a budget release) and I see they've already got a conductor lined up for his Faust opera (but haven't quite got enough funding....yet!) Missa Cambrensis by Grace Williams from Lyrita too,I believe?! (Soon?) It could be an expensive year ahead!! ::) ;D And I've just been listening to a commercial cd recording of Bernard Van Dieren's Chinese Symphony. Pinch me,I'm dreaming! :-\ ;D Other that,I'm delighted! Although,it sounds like Dundonell might need a sit down & a nice cup of tea after all this excitement!

Incidentally,I didn't realise until now that Grace Williams had her own website:

http://gracewilliamscompo.wixsite.com/officialwebsite (http://gracewilliamscompo.wixsite.com/officialwebsite) (Hope this link work. It is up there!)


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: Dundonnell on January 31, 2017, 03:51:47 pm
See this discussion on the Musicweb Forum and, in particular, the response from Antony Smith of the Lyrita Recorded Edition Trust.

http://members2.boardhost.com/MusicWebUK/msg/1478278437.html (http://members2.boardhost.com/MusicWebUK/msg/1478278437.html)

It is marvellous to actually get a public response from a record company :)


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: cilgwyn on January 31, 2017, 04:29:42 pm
Wow! Just read the posts. Excellent! It's heartening to know that they are reading,and not only that,taking notice of such posts!

Regarding Chandos. I wonder if it's purely a matter finances? The economic downturn (as they have pointed out) and the loss of those conductors who undoubtedly had such great enthusiasm for more off the beaten track repertoire? Is it possibly more to do with some change of direction at the helm? Brian Couzens died not so long ago (*2015). Is it possible that his son has different ideas? They often do! Lyrita and Dutton manage some very interesting releases of less commercial fare. Chandos,on the other hand,judging from their releases over the last few years,seem to have very little interest if any at all. Albeit,with a few minor exceptions (I see they've brought out a cd of British tone poems). Also,their increased repetition of repertoire which has already received very good,if not excellent,recordings elsewhere,ie Atterberg and Raff,for example,when they could be spending money and time on composers and music that remains unrecorded,has been ill served on cd,or available only via inadequate recordings.

Just wondering?!


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: Grandenorm on January 31, 2017, 10:48:34 pm
I fear the glory days of Chandos and British music are over. They have turned into just another record label. Very disappointing.


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: cilgwyn on February 01, 2017, 02:17:40 pm
It's their choice of repertoire that made them so special. I wonder if they might end up shooting themselves in the foot,though? If you want the sort of recordings they are making now there are plenty of other labels to choose from. I didn't really like one of the comments made by Couzens,in an interview,about some of the suggestions made on their forum. After all,it's people like us who helped make them so successful! Of course some suggestions were unrealistic. A complete Cauldron of Annwn cycle!! (Now who would post that?!! ;D) But they did ask!!


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: Dundonnell on February 01, 2017, 02:44:42 pm
We have discussed this issue on a number of previous occasions. Whether Chandos has made a decision on artistic or on commercial grounds the path the company is now taking seems to be clear. As far as British music is concerned the general focus appears to be to in the main record repertoire which has already been recorded in years gone by but now using conductors like Sir Andrew Davis and Edward Gardner.

There are exceptions. We know, for example, that Chandos plans to record the David Matthews Symphony No.8 coupled with "A Vision of the Sea" and "Toward Sunrise" with the BBC Philharmonic Orchestra under Jac van Steen. This was due to be recorded last year but has now been delayed until "sometime in 2017". One might have expected this from Dutton (which has recorded recent music by Matthews). I am however struggling to think when I last bought a Chandos disc of "new" British music.

One has to assume that the Davis and Gardner recordings, which have received enthusiastic reviews, do sell in sufficient quantities to justify Chandos continuing with this policy. I do not buy them because I already have the music in perfectly acceptable (and often much more than that!) performances and I need to conserve my cash for other things. Others are obviously of a different mind.


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: Albion on February 01, 2017, 05:03:59 pm
Somm, EM Records, Dutton, CPO and Lyrita (and still occasionally Naxos) are now my go-tos for the repertoire that I'm interested in. Chandos and Hyperion have largely had their day as far as I'm concerned. The deaths of Vernon Handley and Richard Hickox in close succession were, in hindsight, a real tragedy for British repertoire. Still, there is much to hope for from enterprising conductors such as Martyn Brabbins and John Andrews...

 :)


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: Gauk on February 01, 2017, 08:54:09 pm
On the other hand, this looks nice:

https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHAN%2010939 (https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHAN%2010939)


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: Grandenorm on February 01, 2017, 10:32:45 pm
Yes. It probably will be very nice - but almost everything has been recorded before (not that I'm complaining - it is always nice to have different recordings/interpretations).


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: cilgwyn on February 02, 2017, 12:55:41 pm
First it was British Overtures,now it's tone poems! A token gesture towards those who once flipped the pages of their new Gramophone Magazine straight to the Chandos ad to see what exciting premiere recordings they had in store for us! Maybe,a sign of hope? As to their Job and Ninth Symphony cd. A nice combination. Two favourite works (of mine anyway) but there are other very fine,classic or,at the very least,interesting options! ::) Yawn! ::)


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: Dundonnell on February 02, 2017, 01:03:57 pm
Re-reading recent posts which have mentioned record companies and their support for British music I realised that I certainly had omitted to include Naxos. That company has also done wonderful work: the Havergal Brian series obviously,but also complete sets of the symphonies of Stanford, Bax, Alwyn, Arnold spring to mind but there was also, for example, John Gardner's Symphony No.1 and the reissues of the first six Maxwell Davies symphonies.

So...well done to Naxos too  


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: cilgwyn on February 02, 2017, 01:19:30 pm
And interesting releases of British chamber music. Their new and upcoming releases are certainly worth a look! :) Yes,well done Naxos! :)


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: Albion on February 02, 2017, 04:03:54 pm
Re-reading recent posts which have mentioned record companies and their support for British music I realised that I certainly had omitted to include Naxos. That company has also done wonderful work: the Havergal Brian series obviously,but also complete sets of the symphonies of Stanford, Bax, Alwyn, Arnold spring to mind but there was also, for example, John Gardner's Symphony No.1 and the reissues of the first six Maxwell Davies symphonies.

So...well done to Naxos too  

Their series of recordings by the Bach Choir and Bournemouth SO under David Hill goes from strength to strength - Howells' Stabat mater, Stanford's Stabat mater and soon Dyson's early Choral Symphony and St Paul's Voyage to Melita. The Vernon Handley recording of the latter (s really splendid piece) on Somm is serviceable but let down by an insecure Bournemouth SO Chorus. When the new recording comes out it will make all of Dyson's major choral works available in strong performances:

Choral Symphony, Psalm 107, O Give Thanks Unto the Lord (Hill on Naxos)
In Honour of the City (Hickox on Chandos or Willcocks on Somm)
The Canterbury Pilgrims (Hickox on Chandos)
The Blacksmiths (Willcocks on Somm)
Nebuchadnezzar (Hickox on Chandos)
St Paul's Voyage to Melita (Hill on Naxos)
Quo vadis? (Hickox on Chandos)
Sweet Thames Run Softly (Willcocks on Somm)


 :)


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: Kinder on February 04, 2017, 08:47:14 am
And interesting releases of British chamber music. Their new and upcoming releases are certainly worth a look! :) Yes,well done Naxos! :)

I think we should put in a word for the British Music Society, which I think has probably funded the recording of the Fricker String Quartets (and several others - see their 'recordings' page: http://www.britishmusicsociety.com/recordings/ (http://www.britishmusicsociety.com/recordings/); the Fricker doesn't seem to have appeared there yet, but reading the rear label on the Amazon site reveals the involvement of the BMS.)  I once spoke to one of the committee members, who implied that Naxos is prepared to issue recordings on the basis that the material is supplied to them.


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: cilgwyn on February 04, 2017, 11:00:05 am
I used to be a member of the bms years ago. Their newsletters and 'magazine' were very interesting;particularly in those pre-internet days when you couldn't just look up something via search engine!. I remember Rob Barnett's involvement. I first heard of Stanley Bate,Morfydd Owen and other neglected composers from perusing their publications. Is anyone here a member? The subscription got a bit too expensive for me at the time................and what with moving around,and subscriptions to other societies and magazines!! ::) :(


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: M. Yaskovsky on June 11, 2017, 07:28:23 pm
Announced for August, 4 (on Amazon.co.uk)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Daniel-Jones-Symphonies-Nos-11/dp/B071VZBWWH/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1497205630&sr=1-3&keywords=daniel+jones


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: cilgwyn on October 06, 2018, 12:14:37 pm
I'm very disappointed that Lyrita haven't released any more recordings of Daniel Jones symphonies. They did say in the booklet,with the cd(s) that there would be more. I suppose,I'm being impatient;but I'm beginning to wonder?!! There have been other releases,but no Daniel Jones. Did they not sell very well? Have they lost interest?!! I hope not. I think,about,two more cd's and they would have completed the cycle? Also,I'm not optimistic of the chances of any cd's of Daniel Jones from any other label! Of course,there is Tŷ Cerdd,which has released cd's of Morfydd Owen,recently;which has had very good reviews,and a cd of Piano concertos by William Mathias (one of them,an archive recording of Mathias playing).

https://www.tycerdd.org/ (https://www.tycerdd.org/)


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: Vandermolen on October 06, 2018, 12:46:58 pm
I'm very disappointed that Lyrita haven't released any more recordings of Daniel Jones symphonies. They did say in the booklet,with the cd(s) that there would be more. I suppose,I'm being impatient;but I'm beginning to wonder?!! There have been other releases,but no Daniel Jones. Did they not sell very well? Have they lost interest?!! I hope not. I think,about,two more cd's and they would have completed the cycle? Also,I'm not optimistic of the chances of any cd's of Daniel Jones from any other label! Of course,there is Tŷ Cerdd,which has released cd's of Morfydd Owen,recently;which has had very good reviews,and a cd of Piano concertos by William Mathias;one recording of which,is of an archive recording of Mathias,himself,playing.

https://www.tycerdd.org/ (https://www.tycerdd.org/)

Yes, let's hope for more Daniel Jones from Lyrita. I'm looking forward to 'The Apocalypse' by Eugene Goossens.


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: Dundonnell on October 06, 2018, 01:00:57 pm
(How nice it is to be back to discussing music!)

You will not be surprised to hear that I too am very concerned about the promised Daniel Jones cycle! I have had it in mind for several weeks to email Paul Conway (who writes all the booklet notes for Lyrita). Paul is sworn to secrecy about future Lyrita releases but it would d no harm to try to get some indication from him!


Title: Re: Daniel Jones Symphonies forthcoming on Lyrita
Post by: Vandermolen on October 06, 2018, 04:14:37 pm
(How nice it is to be back to discussing music!)

You will not be surprised to hear that I too am very concerned about the promised Daniel Jones cycle! I have had it in mind for several weeks to email Paul Conway (who writes all the booklet notes for Lyrita). Paul is sworn to secrecy about future Lyrita releases but it would d no harm to try to get some indication from him!

His notes are always excellent. Probably worth a try Colin.