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Little-known music of all eras => New recordings => Topic started by: Grandenorm on December 22, 2015, 04:43:49 pm



Title: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on December 22, 2015, 04:43:49 pm
I have just been informed that CPO have planned a third CD of music by Joseph Holbrooke. It will contain: Symphony No. 3 "Ships"; Orchestral Variations on "The Girl I Left Behind Me" and the tone poem "The Birds of Rhiannon". The orchestra is the Deutsche Radiophilharmonie Saarbrücken/Kaiserlautern under Howard Griffiths and the recording sessions are scheduled for the end of January 2016. This will be a very important CD.
Unfortunately, there is still no definite news about the release date of CPO's second Holbrooke CD (recorded nearly 2 years ago), which contains the "Grasshopper" Violin Concerto, the Orchestral Variations on "Auld Lang Syne" and the tone poem "The Raven", except that it should be sometime next year (2016). Let us hope so. The orchestra was the Brandenburgishes Staatsorchester under Howard Griffiths and the soloist in the concerto was Judith Ingolfsson. I certainly hope it will not long be delayed.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on December 22, 2015, 04:58:54 pm
Splendid news that we shall finally get to hear the Symphony No.3 "Ships" (or is that "National Symphony" or "Nelson" or "Our Navy" ???)-a work which as, presumably, a mature Holbrooke symphony has always intrigued me.

Slightly disappointing couplings in that "The Girl I left behind me" is already on a Cameo Classics cd and "The Birds of Rhiannon" was recorded by Lyrita many years ago....but then what were the alternatives ??? So much of Holbrooke's music is lost or was recast into other compositions or involve soloists or chorus.

As for the second Holbrooke cd from cpo..........well, we all know how unpredictable the company's release policy is and how promised releases can slip back in time.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on December 22, 2015, 05:06:16 pm
I agree that we already have at least 2 decent recordings of The Birds of Rhiannon (I would have preferred the Wild Fowl Phantaisie from "Dylan"), but the performance by the Russian orchestra of "The Girl I Left Behind Me" Variations on Cameo Classics was rather disappointing. Neither orchestra nor conductor understood it and a lot of telling detail (which included some musical jokes) got lost - so I do look forward to a new recording of this work. And Howard Griffiths has the measure of Holbrooke's music, so he is a first rate advocate.

I think if a few people wrote Burkhard Schmilgun at CPO to enquire about the second Holbrooke CD, it would do no harm. Herr Schmilgun seems very approachable.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on December 22, 2015, 05:18:00 pm
Sorry..I had forgotten the Marco Polo disc which contains "The Birds of Rhiannon", the Overture to the Opera "The Children of Don" and the Prelude to the Opera "Dylan".

http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.223721 (http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.223721)


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on December 22, 2015, 05:20:42 pm
I shall post further about Holbrooke later this evening ;D


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Gauk on December 22, 2015, 05:22:23 pm
Woo-hoo - I didn't think "The Ships" would ever be recorded. Shame they have chosen "The Birds of Rhiannon" to go with it - I have heard that so many times I'm a bit tired of it. All the same -essential purchase.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on August 01, 2016, 10:22:03 pm
I have just been informed that CPO's second disk of orchestral music by Holbrooke is scheduled for release in September. This is the one containing the Auld Lang Syne Variations, the "Grasshopper" Violin Concerto and "The Raven".


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on August 01, 2016, 10:51:43 pm
Good news :)


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on August 02, 2016, 04:22:19 pm
I have just been informed that CPO have planned a third CD of music by Joseph Holbrooke. It will contain: Symphony No. 3 "Ships"; Orchestral Variations on "The Girl I Left Behind Me" and the tone poem "The Birds of Rhiannon". The orchestra is the Deutsche Radiophilharmonie Saarbrücken/Kaiserlautern under Howard Griffiths and the recording sessions are scheduled for the end of January 2016. This will be a very important CD.
Unfortunately, there is still no definite news about the release date of CPO's second Holbrooke CD (recorded nearly 2 years ago), which contains the "Grasshopper" Violin Concerto, the Orchestral Variations on "Auld Lang Syne" and the tone poem "The Raven", except that it should be sometime next year (2016). Let us hope so. The orchestra was the Brandenburgishes Staatsorchester under Howard Griffiths and the soloist in the concerto was Judith Ingolfsson. I certainly hope it will not long be delayed.
"Ships" is going to.......has been recorded?!! How did I miss this post?!! ??? I must have been in a long sleep and just woken up! My understanding was that Howard Griffiths had decided he didn't want to record it. One intriguing reason,I read somewhere (as a regular contributor to the HB thread at the GMG) being that it sounded like Havergal Brian!!! (One good reason to record it!! ;D) Well,I hope it's true that it's going to be recorded now. The sound quality should certainly be a step up from the excerpt on the fascinating Symposium compilation! And we'll get to hear a bit more!!! I will be looking forward to these cds because I actually do like quite allot of his music. Yes,some of it is uneven in terms of inspiration;but at best I do rather like his rather gothic (in the Edgar Allan Poe,Mysteries of Udolpho sense) later romantic muse. I really do. Rutland Boughton is another one. I really enjoyed The Queen of Cornwall the last time I listened to it;although it took a little perseverance. I actually like it better than the Immortal Hour now;and Bethlehem is a lovely work imho. Anyway,I digress...........
Good news! :)


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on August 02, 2016, 04:24:21 pm
Now I remember how I missed that post. My pc konked out!! :( :( This is a new one!! :o ;D


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on August 02, 2016, 04:55:04 pm
Well, fear not, Cilgwyn. "Ships" has been recorded, and Howard Griffiths has promised to send me a copy of his first edit. When that will be I know not. But I shall report in due course.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Albion on August 02, 2016, 05:10:35 pm
Well, fear not, Cilgwyn. "Ships" has been recorded, and Howard Griffiths has promised to send me a copy of his first edit. When that will be I know not. But I shall report in due course.
I have just been informed that CPO's second disk of orchestral music by Holbrooke is scheduled for release in September. This is the one containing the Auld Lang Syne Variations, the "Grasshopper" Violin Concerto and "The Raven".

All FANTASTIC NEWS, Gareth! Thank you so much for keeping us Holbrookians in the loop. Are CPO still interested in a disc of Queen Mab/ The Bells/ Byron? That would be an ear-opener ...

 ;) ;D


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on August 02, 2016, 05:14:11 pm
Thank you for your reply,Gareth! :) It will also mean (jumping ahead a little) that Joseph Holbrooke fans will able to hear Symphonies 3 & 4 (via the Dutton cd) one after the other. Marvellous!


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on August 02, 2016, 05:16:31 pm
One can only hope that CPO do not keep us waiting too long for the third Holbrooke cd ;D

Some of us age a good deal between instalments of the series CPO issues ::)


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on August 02, 2016, 07:33:54 pm
Quote
Are CPO still interested in a disc of Queen Mab/ The Bells/ Byron? That would be an ear-opener ...

I am keeping the pressure up.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on August 02, 2016, 07:37:42 pm
Cpo Vol 4!
Please do! :)


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on August 17, 2016, 10:30:47 am
I have just been privileged to hear the first edits of CPO's third Holbrooke CD and can report that the playing and conducting are superb. Howard Griffiths really understands Holbrooke's music. There is a delicacy and lucidity about the performances which is exactly what is needed. I hope the disk will be released hot on the heels of the second one.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Albion on August 17, 2016, 10:39:11 pm
Splendid news, thanks Gareth! So at least two further all-Holbrooke cds to look forward to...

 ;D


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on August 17, 2016, 11:35:27 pm
One of my favourite Holbrooke cds. I particularly like the selection of music on this one;particularly the Dylan Prelude......but then again,everything on it. The playing is a little ragged,but imho displays a certain enthusiasm which lifts it above the flak it generally receives from listeners. Fair play,the Plovdiv (Louis Glass,Danacord) they are not! That said,I would obviously love to hear what a really top notch team,and label,could do with this music;perhaps coupled with The Wild Fowl;a work which Albion has mentioned more than once,and I hope I will one day get to hear. Not wishing to jump the gun;but enough material there for a possible Cpo Vol 4?!! ;D I can't wait to hear Holbrooke's brass blaze out in all it's glory. Remember that Marco Polo cd of Bantock's Hebridean Symphony? When the Hyperion recording came out the brass section came as quite a shock,after the muffled raspberries that passed for horns in the MP recording!


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on August 19, 2016, 09:09:15 pm
This CD is announced for release in Germany on 19th September.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on August 19, 2016, 10:35:48 pm
All good things come to those who wait! :) Thanks for the update Gareth! :) :) I'm looking forward to it......and it's successor!! :o :)


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: M. Yaskovsky on August 20, 2016, 03:09:09 pm
Announced on the jpc website for release 19th september: Violinconcerto, op.60 variations and The Raven


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on August 20, 2016, 05:21:09 pm
That's what I wrote two posts earlier! !!! ???


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Christo on August 20, 2016, 08:03:28 pm
That's what I wrote two posts earlier! !!! ???
I was happy to see your observation confirmed by an apparently indepently conducted observation of the same joyful fact.  ;)


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on August 20, 2016, 09:28:41 pm
 ;D


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on September 13, 2016, 10:18:21 am
Thank you,Gareth! I like the choice of artwork,too! :)
All moans aside...Cpo are a wonderful recording label.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on September 13, 2016, 02:07:37 pm
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/joseph-holbrooke-violinkonzert-op-59-the-grasshopper/hnum/4100515 (https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/joseph-holbrooke-violinkonzert-op-59-the-grasshopper/hnum/4100515)


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on September 13, 2016, 04:04:56 pm
Thank you,Gareth! I like the choice of artwork,too! :)
All moans aside...Cpo are a wonderful recording label.


Speaking as probably the principal "moaner" on this forum in relation to CPO  ;D I welcome the forthcoming release.

I could of course bemoan the fact that although the release is due on 19 September it will not become available from British retailers until November. Those who order the cd directly from CPO will no doubt be able to get it more quickly.

I could further complain that on the linked website it says "At Last: Holbrooke's "The Raven" when in fact this particular work was recorded by Marco Polo in January 1992 with what is now the Slovak Radio Symphony Orchestra conducted by Adrian Leaper (although the other two works on the new CPO release have not previously been recorded for cd).

However..........these are minor quibbles from "Grumpy of Perth, Scotland" and should not detract from the overall delight  ;D :)



Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on September 13, 2016, 04:22:37 pm
With Symphony No.3 "Ships" having already been recorded by CPO what could we ask for next ???

Well....there are works which include a chorus (that makes them more expensive) and there are works which require more than one soloist-

Double Concerto for Clarinet and Bassoon "Tamerlane" , op.119 (1934-39)
Quadruple Concerto for Flute, Clarinet, Cor Anglais and Bassoon, op.133 (1947)


So....what about

"The Masque of the Red Death"  Poem No 8, op.65 (1904-13)
Fantasie "The Wild Fowl", op. 56b (1918)
Piano Concerto No.2 "L'Orient", op. 100 (1920-28)


......come on, there is always more to do. Some of us are never satisfied ;D ;D


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on October 16, 2016, 12:29:22 pm
I hope to interest CPO, or another record company in all these works eventually + a CD of Josef's light music (of which there is plenty).
[Incidentally, Josef calls for concertinas (number unlimited!) in "Dylan", but I don't think these are used in the Wild Fowl Fantaisie, though it does require 5 saxophones.]


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on October 17, 2016, 08:51:22 am
The Dylan Prelude on Marco Polo is one of my favourite (possibly my favourite) of all the works that have been recorded. I have read a post,however,on Amazon that suggests that the composers specified instrumentation was not used in the recording. I remember writing an enthusiastic letter to Gwydion Brooke after hearing the Marco Polo cds when they came out. I remember him telling me (in the letter which I still have) that the BBC had used the small orchestra for their recording of 'The Bells' and calling it a "travesty". I would personally love to own a recording of all the orchestral music from the Cauldron of Annwn cycle,and 'The Wild Fowl'. Imho,I think it would make an absolutely fantastic cd.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on October 17, 2016, 09:00:11 am
One more point. Has anyone heard anything of Gwydion Brooke's bassoon since this interesting obituary was published?! (You need to scroll to near the bottom of it).

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2005/apr/06/guardianobituaries.artsobituaries (https://www.theguardian.com/news/2005/apr/06/guardianobituaries.artsobituaries)


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on October 17, 2016, 05:56:41 pm
The full instrumentation is not used on the Marco Polo disks.  And Gwyd was quite right: the BBC did not use the full orchestra specified by Josef for their performance of The Bells. No mushroom bells, though these specifically play different notes in chords with the tubular bells. No deep bell in C. No steer horns - and a host of other omissions, most serious of which is the concertina which has a very important part and one which is quite exposed sometimes.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on October 17, 2016, 09:46:03 pm
Thank you very much for your reply,Gareth. I presume that bassoons still missing! !That's very interesting,about the orchestration. I'm only a listener,but the performance comes over as a bit of a run through. I'm sure it could be tauter. It seems to sag in the middle. Of course,not being able to read music or hear any other performance,it could just be Holbrooke! But there's some lovely music there which doesn't sound like any other British choral work of the time. At least that I'm aware of......so I'm reserving judgement!!  Oh and yes,to my untutored ears,I feel the bells should be (have to be!) more sonorous than they do here. I wouldn't be surprised! I'm sure Holbrooke would have revelled in those sounds!  I just keep thinking of that Marco Polo recording of the Hebridean Symphony. I enjoyed what I heard;but the full glory of Bantock's orchestration came as a bit of a shock,to say the least,when I heard the Handley recording. The horns just seem to rip out! Despite their obvious shortcomings,I actually think I prefer the Marco Polo performance of the Prelude to the Bells. After posting this I'm going to have to listen to the two recordings again!


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on October 18, 2016, 07:23:13 am
I think Joseph has got an unjust reputation for overscoring: for throwing as many instruments as possible into the pot, kitchen sink and all. A study of his scores shows this is not the case at all. A large orchestra is sometimes called for,  but the instrumentation, even in the most complex of his scores, is no more excessive (and I would contend less so) than in many orchestral works by Mahler or Richard Strauss, or other roughly contemporary composers. There is in fact more percussion in Vaughan Williams' 8th symphony than in any score by Holbrooke, including The Bells, while Mahler and Strauss call for more "out of the way" instruments more often than Joseph. Moreover, Jo also uses many of these extra instruments sparingly and tellingly,  often producing passages of chamber like delicacy in the midst of large scale works. Because he liked them, and wrote well for them, Jo frequently asks for a large woodwind section, including saxophones. He was a masterly orchestrator and knew very well the sounds and timbres he wanted to produce. It is a shame that the same care in adhering to his called for instrumentation is not accorded to him as it is to performances of pieces by Mahler or Strauss. If we could hear what the composer wanted us to hear we would perhaps arrive at a better judgement of his worth. I think this is being done with the CPO disks and I very much hope we shall get more from that company.

As to Gwyd's bassoon, I will ask Jean when I next speak to her.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on December 02, 2016, 10:59:59 pm
I am listening as I write to the new Holbrooke disc from CPO.

Now..there is no point in me pretending that this is exactly "my" type of music but I can certainly appreciate the skills Holbrooke demonstrates in his orchestration. The Variations on "Auld Lang Syne" are both skillful and witty. The performance of "The Raven" is considerably more atmospheric than that on the old Marco Polo cd. The presentation of the cd is absolutely first-class: the variations are each cued separately, the booklet notes are extremely detailed, well-written and informative and the running time of the cd is much longer than the somewhat short measure on the previous orchestral Holbrooke disc from CPO.

Overall an extremely pleasing experience listening to these works in well-prepared performances with a conductor who obviously believes in the music. They are not necesarily the sort of pieces I shall return to very often but that is simply a matter of personal taste. Those who enjoy Holbrooke's music should certainly invest in the cd (as have I ;D) and it will bring them much pleasure.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on June 16, 2017, 07:24:57 pm
After reading a quite enthusiastic review (not Musicweb) I decided to give this another spin. I didn't realise Holbrooke had taken a leaf out of Elgar's book. (Okay,I didn't read the booklet!)  Each Variation being a musical sketch  of a close friend or acquaintance. The Variation 14, HB Allegro marchia depicting Havergal Brian! Although Havergal Brian was later replaced by DG (Dan Godfrey)! I'm beginning to enjoy this now after a few listens. Holbrooke's variations are hardly a match for Elgar's;but maybe they aren't meant to be? This is more like well crafted light music. I find Holbrooke's scoring colourful and I like parts of it very much. I also find the ,so called,"Grasshopper" Violin Concerto growing on me,too. I find that leaping motif quite delightful. It really draws me in,and Holbrooke's scoring is at it's best here. I think it's a lovely piece. The slow movement is a cracker,imho.Structurally,it also strikes me as one of his most accomplished and effective pieces.
The cd finishes off with one of his Poe (Edgar Allan! ;D) inspired compositions. This is a very Gothic sounding piece. You can practically hear the rustling curtain and the Raven tapping on the window pane,croaking,"Nevermore"!
This has taken,as I said,a few listens;but the music on this cd has really grown on me. I am really looking forward to the forthcoming Cpo cd of the third symphony and it's companions. I hope it won't be too long?!! I trust Cpo will find another appropriate painting to adorn the front. The choices so far have been excellent,as far as I'm concerned. I also hope the next cd won't be the last!! >:( :( ;D



Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on June 17, 2017, 12:20:34 am
Listening to this cd again has prompted a whole day of Holbrooke orchestral cds;or what few there are of them! Still,at least there are some,now;so I mustn't grumble!
One Symphony I would dearly love to hear,is his Fifth Symphony "Wild Wales". Not just because of it's seductive subtitle (I live in Wales!),but also because one of the things I particularly like about Holbrooke is his sonorous use of the brass section of the orchestra;and the Fifth symphony is for.......wait for it.........brass band!! I know that some of Holbrooke's symphonies (and some other compositions) have gone missing. Hopefully,his Fifth symphony is not one of them?!!

NB: Just looked at the Wikipedia entry for this symphony under brass band. Also titled "Old Wales,also styled Symphony No 8". Confusing?!! ::) :-\ ;D


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on June 17, 2017, 06:59:06 pm
Everything about the Holbrooke compositions is confusing! The chronology, the opus numbering, the different names and numbers given to the symphonies in particular. It made my job in producing a list of works virtually impossible and I had to rely shamelessly on the work done by others, including Albion's listings on Wikipedia.

What I am not sure about, and perhaps Gareth Vaughan can help us out here, is the current situation regarding the scores of the symphonies. How many actually are still extant? Which ones might realistically be recorded- assuming a company like CPO might be open to persuasion?


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on June 18, 2017, 12:42:33 am
Yes,he even seems to have kept changing the dedicatees of the individual variations that make up the Auld lang Syne Variations. Havergal Brian,the dedicatee of the Fourteenth (the booklet,unless it's my glasses ::) ;D,refers to it as the Fourth!) being replaced,later on,by Dan Godfrey.....and that's just one example! I wonder why? I know Holbrooke was a bit of a difficult character (nobody's perfect,mind!) but I thought Holbrooke and Brian were on friendly terms?!


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: guest140 on June 18, 2017, 09:26:26 am
I recently bought the autograph manuscripts of "Clive of India, for brass band" by Holbrooke by the way. Now I would like to typeset and publish the score as I do it with all autograph manuscripts in my possession. Does anyone know how to contact the Holbrooke family?
And I noticed that the score of the work was published in 1941 by R. Smith & Co. I could not find an original copy at rare books shops, but noticed that the site www.justmusicuk.com sells copies for 50£. It looks like they just sell a copy from that old R. Smith & Co. publication, so that looks somehow suspicious to me. Does anyone here ever ordered from them?

I created a subpage to that Holbrooke piece on my website and wrote a first sketch, so if anyone is interested in it anyway: https://www.tobias-broeker.de/rare-manuscripts/joseph-holbrooke/ (https://www.tobias-broeker.de/rare-manuscripts/joseph-holbrooke/)

Best,
Tobias


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on June 18, 2017, 11:13:34 pm
I do know how to contact the Holbrooke family, Tobias, and if you will contact me on: gareth41@talktalk.net I will give you Mrs Jean Holbrooke's address. Sounds as if she ought to be getting royalties from the sale of those scores.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on June 18, 2017, 11:20:50 pm
Quote
I know that some of Holbrooke's symphonies (and some other compositions) have gone missing. Hopefully,his Fifth symphony is not one of them?!!

The score and parts of the 5th Symphony have survived and are held by Mrs Jean Holbrooke.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Gauk on June 19, 2017, 11:18:23 am
How interesting! Is she his niece?


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on June 19, 2017, 12:25:37 pm
She is his daughter in law - Gwydion Brooke's widow.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on June 19, 2017, 01:47:43 pm
Although it would not be unfair to describe me as being "obsessed" by the symphony as a musical form I am not particularly interested in any possible resurrection of Holbrooke's works for brass band and I would guess that works which require a chorus or soloists and chorus would be too expensive to record in the present climate. We have identified in the past one or two other orchestral works which might be more realistic prospects.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on June 19, 2017, 04:23:17 pm
That doesn't mean that other people might not want to hear them! I'm not a big fan of brass band music,but Holbrooke use of the brass section of the orchestra is one of the things that have always attracted me to his music. I have read,here I think (I need to go back through the posts) that the Fifth Symphony is more like a suite;but that doesn't mean it isn't necessarily worth listening to. I can think of some,so,called symphonies that are actually more like suites,but they are still very enjoyable. Of course,there are examples of symphonies,that are definitely symphonies,but are merely long winded and outstay their welcome.
I have to say my favourite music for brass band;and the examples I go back to more than any,are those suites by Holst. I'd be surprised if even Dundonnell doesn't enjoy them?!!

By the way,Gareth Vaughan will be pleased to know that I have just spent three days listening to every Holbrooke cd,off-air broadcast of a major Holbrooke work and cd with Holbrooke on it,in my collection. I thought even I would throw in the towel at some point;but to my astonishment I enjoyed every one of them!!


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Gauk on June 20, 2017, 07:56:12 pm
She is his daughter in law - Gwydion Brooke's widow.

I think that's what I meant ...  ;D


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on June 21, 2017, 12:12:49 am
That doesn't mean that other people might not want to hear them! I'm not a big fan of brass band music,but Holbrooke use of the brass section of the orchestra is one of the things that have always attracted me to his music. I have read,here I think (I need to go back through the posts) that the Fifth Symphony is more like a suite;but that doesn't mean it isn't necessarily worth listening to. I can think of some,so,called symphonies that are actually more like suites,but they are still very enjoyable. Of course,there are examples of symphonies,that are definitely symphonies,but are merely long winded and outstay their welcome.
I have to say my favourite music for brass band;and the examples I go back to more than any,are those suites by Holst. I'd be surprised if even Dundonnell doesn't enjoy them?!!

By the way,Gareth Vaughan will be pleased to know that I have just spent three days listening to every Holbrooke cd,off-air broadcast of a major Holbrooke work and cd with Holbrooke on it,in my collection. I thought even I would throw in the towel at some point;but to my astonishment I enjoyed every one of them!!

Of course it doesn't mean that others cannot enjoy these Holbrooke brass band symphonies! I was only-as ever-expressing a personal preference. I did not intend any criticism or disparagement of other folk's taste. Nor did I intend any offence to you and I apologise if you felt I was trying to do so!!


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Albion on June 21, 2017, 04:34:58 pm
I'm 100% sure that offence was neither meant nor taken. Holbrooke is not everybody's cup of tea, but he's certainly mine partly because of my fascination with his personality and the maverick nature of his inspirational sources. At his best, in works like Ulalume, The Raven and The Bells, he achieves a distinct and remarkably painterly musicality...

:)


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on June 21, 2017, 06:52:07 pm
I'm 100% sure that offence was neither meant nor taken. Holbrooke is not everybody's cup of tea, but he's certainly mine partly because of my fascination with his personality and the maverick nature of his inspirational sources. At his best, in works like Ulalume, The Raven and The Bells, he achieves a distinct and remarkably painterly musicality...

:)

I agree with all of Albion's reasons for liking Holbrooke. In my case,his connections with Wales,and the fact that I've always been fascinated by Welsh legends,folklore and mythology. I've also read The Mabinogion (Haven't we all?!! ;D) the collection of medieval Welsh manuscripts from which Lord Howard de Walden derived his long poem,and the libretto's for Holbrooke's The Cauldron of Annwn cycle. I've liked his music ever since I heard that Symposium cd of recordings of Holbrooke's music made in the thirties,and the Marco Polo cd's of his orchestral works that followed. I also still have the very nice letter I received from Holbrooke's son,Gwydion Brooke,and the Lp of Holbrooke's Chamber music (his own label) he sent to me,in response to my letter enthusing about his father's music.
Indeed! No offence was taken. I am sorry if my reponse to Dundonnell's post sounded a bit tetchy. The problem is,we Holbrooke 'groupies' need to hear just about every single thing he composed (okay,maybe not everything?!! ;D). I do like his use of the brass,though,and I can't help wondering what his brand band pieces sound like. Whether his Fifth Symphony is actually worth recording is another matter,of course! Just curious!! ::) ;D


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on June 21, 2017, 09:52:23 pm
I am delighted  We are in no disagreement


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on December 03, 2018, 06:03:54 pm
I have just finished writing (and have submitted) the booklet notes to cpo's 3rd CD of orchestral works by Holbrooke, so maybe it will be released early next year.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on December 03, 2018, 06:19:48 pm
I have just finished writing (and have submitted) the booklet notes to cpo's 3rd CD of orchestral works by Holbrooke, so maybe it will be released early next year.
Thank you for this update,Gareth! And thank you for all the work you do in championing this composer. I hope it will be released in the New Year. I'm a bit of a fan of Holbrooke,and I happen to think that,if I had to choose one,the last Cpo cd of his music,was the best ever,in terms of the selection of music and performances (indeed,everything about it!). A pity that this will be the last volume from Cpo,though. Both cd's,so far,are just superb,in every respect. Is there any hope,I wonder,that some other conductor will take over from Howard Griffiths and continue Cpo's exploration of his music?

In the meantime,Holbrooke fans have got something to look forward to!! :)


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on December 03, 2018, 07:11:05 pm
Not necessarily the last one.  I still hope they can be persuaded to do more. We will see. Keep your fingers crossed.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: M. Yaskovsky on December 03, 2018, 10:15:59 pm
Which compositions are recorded for this 3rd cpo CD?


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on December 03, 2018, 11:15:26 pm
Which compositions are recorded for this 3rd cpo CD?

"It will contain: Symphony No. 3 "Ships"; Orchestral Variations on "The Girl I Left Behind Me" and the tone poem "The Birds of Rhiannon". The orchestra is the Deutsche Radiophilharmonie Saarbrücken/Kaiserlautern under Howard Griffiths" (from the first post on this thread :))

Given that CPO has given in the past as a reason for delays in issuing recordings made for them the non-delivery of the cd booklet notes it is good to know that this will not apply now :)


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on December 04, 2018, 12:54:56 am
Yes. The really first class guy who wrote the booklet notes for the last 2 Holbrooke disks simply had too much other work and so, in order not to delay the release further, he asked me to write them. It was a pleasure and privilege to do so.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on December 04, 2018, 01:28:27 am
.....and absolutely first-class, detailed and exceptionally informative notes they were - as I am sure yours will be too, Gareth!


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: guest140 on December 04, 2018, 05:50:24 am
I have here ready for publication the score for "1914, for brass band" (what later became "Clive of India")...


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on December 04, 2018, 07:37:01 am
But have you had permission from the Holbrooke family, who hold the copyright, to publish it?


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: guest140 on December 04, 2018, 08:20:05 am
No, thats why I said it is "ready to publish" not "it is published". In fact I don't understand the decision because I could buy the "Clive of India" score from a UK store for brass bands and knowing the original composition would be an interesting addition. But maybe the Holbrooke family don't know that the score for "Clive of India" is still sold.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on December 04, 2018, 10:21:20 am
I think it very likely they don't.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: guest140 on December 04, 2018, 01:59:56 pm
It is available through justmusicuk.com, for those interested.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Toby Esterhase on December 04, 2018, 11:39:59 pm
I have here ready for publication the score for "1914, for brass band" (what later became "Clive of India")...
Is there any recording planned for symphony n°5-6?


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on December 05, 2018, 07:52:58 am
Not that I know of at present.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on December 27, 2018, 12:28:50 am
Please forgive me for not updating this thread. About a fortnight ago I finished writing, and submitted to CPO, booklet notes for the third Holbrooke CD, so my hope is that it will be out early next year. Apparently, it was the absence of notes that was delaying its release. The truly excellent Franz Groborz, who had done the notes for the two previous releases, was so overwhelmed with other commitments that he had no time, so he recommended CPO to ask me. As you can imagine, I was only too happy to oblige.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Albion on December 27, 2018, 01:02:42 pm
Thanks, Gareth - really looking forward to this one. The Variations on "The Girl I Left Behind Me" are surely the quirkiest of Holbrooke's three sets... another well-balanced programme.

Here's to "Queen Mab", "The Bells" and "Apollo"!

 :)


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on December 27, 2018, 07:33:02 pm
Quote
Here's to "Queen Mab", "The Bells" and "Apollo"!

I'll certainly drink to that and will do all I can to persuade CPO to record them. May need some help from enthusiasts on this forum: writing letters...  Anyway, we'll see.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Expi on March 22, 2019, 12:29:08 pm
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/joseph-holbrooke-symphonie-nr-3-ships/hnum/8456430 (https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/joseph-holbrooke-symphonie-nr-3-ships/hnum/8456430)


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on March 22, 2019, 12:59:18 pm
There will be some very happy people this morning when they see this news😁


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on March 22, 2019, 03:28:53 pm
I didn't know myself until I chanced to look at the website. Still, I have at last got paid for the booklet notes!


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on March 22, 2019, 03:42:10 pm
I didn't know myself until I chanced to look at the website. Still, I have at last got paid for the booklet notes!
Since your notes will not have been written in Archaic High German and translated into English we shall doubtless be able to understand them😁
I have already ordered the new cd.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on March 22, 2019, 08:26:06 pm
I hope you find them helpful. I have a proof copy of the CD without the booklet. But I am hoping they will send me a complimentary copy at least.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on March 22, 2019, 09:00:12 pm
I should certainly hope that you get a complimentary copy!


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Albion on March 22, 2019, 10:44:03 pm
Hooray, hooray, hooray! What a superbly attractive cover as well... Well done Gareth for continuing to encourage and participate in this seminal project!

(https://media1.jpc.de/image/w220/front/0/0761203504121.jpg)

 ;D


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on March 23, 2019, 02:00:11 am
Gareth,

Were you-hypothetically of course-to be asked to recommend the contents for another disc of Holbrooke's orchestral music what would you suggest?

I suppose that one significant issue would be that any work requiring a soloist or soloists or chorus increases the cost of production.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on March 23, 2019, 06:29:35 pm
Yeeeeeeehooooooooo!! :o :) :) :) Fans of Holbrooke,the world over,rejoice! (All four of us?!! ::) ;D) Funny! I was just listening to The Birds of Rhiannon a little earlier,via the Lyrita cd (with Rootham Symphony 1 & Bantock) which arrived here this morning! I will be waiting till it becomes available in the Uk,however! I know I'm jumping the gun;but I only wish there was someone who could continue this Cpo series now Howard Griffiths has gone?! But this is wonderful news for us Holbrooke groupies! My only previous knowledge of Holbrooke's third is via an extremely brief (to put it mildly) excerpt on the,otherwise,fascinating,Symposium collection,of historic recordings of Holbrooke.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on March 23, 2019, 07:13:40 pm
".....Howard Griffiths is gone" ? What do you mean?


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on March 24, 2019, 07:20:55 pm
My apologies! Not in that way,thank goodness! But Gareth said he'd taken up a post,conducting another orchestra! (Sorry,I'm usually more careful than that!)


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: the Administration on March 24, 2019, 07:49:07 pm
My apologies! Not in that way,thank goodness! But Gareth said he'd taken up a post,conducting another orchestra! (Sorry,I'm usually more careful than that!)

....but that would not prevent him recording more Holbrooke surely?


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on March 24, 2019, 07:50:31 pm
My apologies! Not in that way,thank goodness! But Gareth said he'd taken up a post,conducting another orchestra! (Sorry,I'm usually more careful than that!)

....but that would not prevent him recording more Holbrooke surely?

This was supposed to be posted from me obviously ;D


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on March 24, 2019, 11:52:32 pm
My apologies! Not in that way,thank goodness! But Gareth said he'd taken up a post,conducting another orchestra! (Sorry,I'm usually more careful than that!)

....but that would not prevent him recording more Holbrooke surely?

This was supposed to be posted from me obviously ;D
Well,hopefully,not?! I meant,with Cpo. In an earlier post (June 13 2018) Gareth said that there was the "possibility" of a recording of some choral music "with a British orchestra and chorus" conducted by Howard Griffiths. Uncomfirmed,apparently! But,we must wait for Gareth Vaughan to post here,of course!


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on March 25, 2019, 11:01:16 am
I have it on good authority that Howard Griffiths would not be averse to conducting some of Holbrooke's larger scale choral works with a British chorus if possible, but it will be up to CPO. There is more than one person encouraging CPO in this direction.

Quote
Were you-hypothetically of course-to be asked to recommend the contents for another disc of Holbrooke's orchestral music what would you suggest?
From my point of view I would like to see a coupling of "Queen Mab" and "The Bells", perhaps with the addition of the 2 orchestral songs, Op. 41a and 41b (Marino Faliero and Annabel Lee). However, if only another purely orchestral disk was on offer I would recommend the 2nd piano concerto "L'Orient", coupled with either The Dreamland Suite and the incidental music to Pontorewyn OR with the two ballets "The Red Masque" and "The Moth and the Flame". We shall just have to wait and see.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on March 25, 2019, 07:41:59 pm
Thank you for your reply,Gareth! So,hopefully,more to look forward to! We'll just have to wait a bit!! :( ;D :) Meanwhile,this new Cpo cd,to add to my growing pile of Holbrooke cd's. I think the Symposium was the first cd. I seem to remember Michael Oliver (?) giving it a quite,positive review in Gramophone Magazine (& suggesting a reappraisal of Holbrooke,might be due?) which first whetted my appetite,for this once,intriguingly,quite famous composer. Then the Marco Polo cd of Ulalume,The Raven (etc) which enthused my imagination to such a degree,I actually wrote to Gwydion Brooke,who replied with a very nice letter and an Lp of Holbrooke chamber works! This was followed by another Marco Polo cd,and then,a dispiriting gap;I seem to remember? Since then,thanks to Dutton,Cpo,and a little help from Hyperion,EM & Naxos (and I suppose I should include Cameo?) the tally has been,thankfully,growing!


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on March 27, 2019, 12:16:34 am
I have it on good authority that Howard Griffiths would not be averse to conducting some of Holbrooke's larger scale choral works with a British chorus if possible, but it will be up to CPO. There is more than one person encouraging CPO in this direction.

Quote
Were you-hypothetically of course-to be asked to recommend the contents for another disc of Holbrooke's orchestral music what would you suggest?
From my point of view I would like to see a coupling of "Queen Mab" and "The Bells", perhaps with the addition of the 2 orchestral songs, Op. 41a and 41b (Marino Faliero and Annabel Lee). However, if only another purely orchestral disk was on offer I would recommend the 2nd piano concerto "L'Orient", coupled with either The Dreamland Suite and the incidental music to Pontorewyn OR with the two ballets "The Red Masque" and "The Moth and the Flame". We shall just have to wait and see.

Interesting choices, Gareth. You have the advantage of probably knowing how long each of these works is in performance. I would put in a word for the Fantasie "The Wild Fowl", the Double Concerto "Tamerlane" for Clarinet and Bassoon (which is less than twenty minutes long) and, of course, the Symphony No.2 "Apollo and the Seaman".


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on March 28, 2019, 01:34:39 am
I would support those choices, Dundonnell, of course. "Apollo" is just under the hour, so one could fit "The Wild Fowl" on that CD as well. Although Apollo demands a large orchestra with greatly enhanced wind section, there is not a lot of percussion (IIRC) and the chorus is a male one, so not vastly expensive to put on.
With the Double Concerto, possible couplings might be The Dance Suite for piano & small orchestra Op. 93c and The Cambrian Suite, op. 101. Another CD I should like to see would be of pieces for string orchestra: "Les Hommages" (in its original version for string orchestra, titled "Bohemian Suite") with the Symphony No. 7 (which is an arrangement of the String Sextet "Henry Vaughan" in D major, Op. 43 for full string orchestra) and the little piece for strings arranged from the Cauldron Trilogy which Jo called "Caradoc's Deam".
Of course, we also need a recording of the 1st Symphony "Homage to E.A. Poe", but this involves chorus and soloists so would be rather costly to mount. It lasts about an hour.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on March 29, 2019, 02:18:43 pm
I used to keep pestering them (Chandos) to record Holbrooke,on their old forum,and the one before that! If they weren't interested in something (the complete works of August Bungert! ;D) there would,usually,be no reply. In the case of Holbrooke;the response came,that they were interested in recording Holbrooke. And more than once! Unlike Gareth,I can't read music and have no access to manuscripts,so I suppose I was just being a bit of a pain really. But I,really,liked what I'd heard on those Marco Polo cds,and I just wanted to hear more!

I must say,I'd be curious to hear his Symphony No.5 in E flat, 'Wild Wales'. I understand it's for Brass Band;and I,particularly,like his use of the brass section of the orchestra. (I just love the sounds he makes,with these instruments!) Also,it's called "Wild Wales". Having been born & bred there (as they say) that arouses my curiosity. I'm not expecting anything particularly Welsh sounding;but,the titles of the movements are (according to Wikipedia) !) Rhayader 2) Bangor Fair 3) Llangefni. Which only serves to increase my curiosity. One of the things that draws me to Holbrooke (as person and composer) are his connections with Wales. Confusingly,the Wikipedia entry goes on to state that,the symphony is also titled,"Old Wales" ,and Symphony No 8..........which is listed (in 'symphonies';also Wikipedia);and I thought it was;as "Dance Symphony" op 112! Okay,now my head is spinning!!! ??? ;D But,is the score still extant,I wonder?

(Sorry,Dundonnell (Colin). (The right thread,now!) I was just thinking that! :-[ ::) ;D I really should know better,by now!!)


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: the Administration on March 29, 2019, 02:45:45 pm
Thanks ;D


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on March 29, 2019, 03:46:54 pm
Wild Wales (Symphony no. 5) is really more of a suite than a symphony, as is Symphony no. 6 for Military Band. The scores and parts exist for both, and Wild Wales is a lovely composition. Holbrooke always wrote beautifully for wind instruments (and I include brass in that category). Also, don't worry about getting confused with numberings. That is Jo's fault. He was always renumbering and re-organising his works, making it a nightmare for musicologists to find their way around his oeuvres.
Perhaps we should start pestering Chandos again!



Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Albion on March 29, 2019, 06:16:11 pm
Also, don't worry about getting confused with numberings. That is Jo's fault. He was always renumbering and re-organising his works, making it a nightmare for musicologists to find their way around his oeuvres.
Perhaps we should start pestering Chandos again!



I'm afraid that I'm responsible for the Wikipedia catalogue, having sourced original work-lists dating from 1904 through to 1952. I've tried to make it as comprehensive and user-friendly as I can, including lost works, abandoned works, changes of opus number, scoring and changes of nomenclature...

 :)


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on March 29, 2019, 06:56:01 pm
There are three options if compiling a Holbrooke catalogue: by opus number, by date of composition, or by genre. The first is of very little use to the run of listeners since the numbers seem to bear little relationship to the dates of composition. My list on here of the orchestral music is chronological but very messy because of Holbrooke's practice of renaming works, revising works or chopping them up and reusing chunks.

The list on Wikipedia, arranged by genre, compiled by John is absolutely the best way to approach the compositions and try to make sense of the nomenclature. I borrowed from it in compiling my list. It is as definitive as John could make it and is a superb piece of research!


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on March 29, 2019, 07:00:01 pm
The Wikipedia very good,actually! A model of it's kind! ;D :) Considering Holbrooke is a relatively obscure figure! And not to be confused with a certain,jazz trio;which,sometimes comes up,if you search for this composer & (according to Wikipedia) was named in his honour! (I suppose I should give them a listen,but I'm not really into jazz! At least,not the more modern kind!) Just reading Gareth's response;I think I'd like to hear the Sixth,now! (And why,wouldn't I?!! ;D) The only other brass/band music,I listen to is by Holst. I love his Suites. Although,I recently acquired the Conifer cd,Arnold on Brass,and thought it was fantastic! Yes,I like Holbrooke's use of wind instruments. One of the best Holbrooke cd's I have heard,which seems to have been largely overlooked (judging by the lack of online reviews) is the Cpo cd of Clarinet Chamber music. Some of the music on it has a refined,haunting,slightly,otherwordly,quality. I would recommend the cd to anyone who believes the lie that Holbrooke's just composed vast,barely performable works for huge orchestras. It is also superbly performed and recorded!


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on March 29, 2019, 07:40:36 pm
John's Wikipedia list of Jo's works is a superb job. I don't think it could be bettered. I use it often as reference. I find it invaluable.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on March 30, 2019, 01:13:42 pm
Yes,it is excellent! I don't know why I used the 'grin' ;D emoticon? I think it was because some Wikipedia articles aren't?! Of course,years go I would have had to go to the library and look all these things up. Incidentally,I never saw the Groves entry for Holbrooke. I'm not sure if they publish the books anymore? Did they say much about Holbrooke,I wonder? I think my first encounter with his name was in a book of stories from the operas? It included some (or all of) Holbrooke's Cauldron of Annwn cycle and The Enchanter! Also the stories of some other British operas by Boughton and Smyth (which are currently being revived) Holst's The Perfect Fool (for which a cd release is way,overdue,imo) and some potted biographies,or details,about the composers at the end. I remember wishing I could hear some of the operas!

Incidentally,I went back to the library (a couple of months ago) when my pc broke down! I was expecting to see the old counter there,and helpful librarians. Alas! The librarians had been (largely) replaced by self service machines. The nice,cosy niches,I used to sit in,with my book,by the window,had been replaced by pc's. The librarians all seemed to be talking to each other in very loud voices,as did most of the other users (apparently,a quiet library puts people off!). And apart from the noise of a kids computer game,in the background;my nostrils were constantly assailed by the smell of a meat pie (with onions,I think?! :o ;D) which someone was eating!! Now,I know I'm an old duffer,and it's progress (and the meat pie did smell tasty!) but I'm afraid that,unless my internet connection goes down again,this old duffer will be doing his research from home!! ;D


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on March 30, 2019, 04:18:33 pm
Well..........I received the new CPO cd this morning and have listened to it (only once so far, I concede!).

The two works I already knew "The Birds of Rhiannon" and "The girl I left behind me" are, of course, both delightful, attractive music and both extremely well-played.

The Symphony No.3 "Ships"??? I have to say I found it distinctly underwhelming. It grieves me to write this but I must be honest. The work is certainly pleasant, "agreeable" music but there is nothing of the grandeur I expected (given the "theme" of the work). I was looking-and this no doubt is my fault-for something different, something heroic, something which said "I am a powerful 1920s British symphony!"  I did not get that reaction.

There were very few British symphonies from the 1920s and 1930s of real substance. There are the great RVW symphonies, the Bax symphonies-which are all fine works, the early Havergal Brian symphonies (which were never performed of course at that time but we now recognise as immensely powerful works) but apart from those?

Rutland Boughton's 2nd and 3rd (1927 and 1937), George Lloyd's 1st, 2nd and 3rd (1932-1933), Cyril Roothams' 1st and 2nd (1937), Edmund Rubbra's 1st and 2nd (1937, 1939), the solitary symphonies of Gordon Jacob (No.1, 1929), Cecil Armstrong Gibbs (No.1, 1932), Cyril Scott (No.3, 1937) and those two magnificent works by Bliss (Colour Symphony) and Walton's 1st. (Tippett and Stanley Bate both withdrew their early symphonies.)

Does Holbrooke's 3rd claim a place in a list of 1920s British symphonies of real substance? Well......I am not yet convinced. The work may grow on me.....but it did not "grab" my attention on first hearing.

Sorry!


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Toby Esterhase on March 30, 2019, 05:47:48 pm
Well..........I received the new CPO cd this morning and have listened to it (only once so far, I concede!).

The two works I already knew "The Birds of Rhiannon" and "The girl I left behind me" are, of course, both delightful, attractive music and both extremely well-played.

The Symphony No.3 "Ships"??? I have to say I found it distinctly underwhelming. It grieves me to write this but I must be honest. The work is certainly pleasant, "agreeable" music but there is nothing of the grandeur I expected (given the "theme" of the work). I was looking-and this no doubt is my fault-for something different, something heroic, something which said "I am a powerful 1920s British symphony!"  I did not get that reaction.

There were very few British symphonies from the 1920s and 1930s of real substance. There are the great RVW symphonies, the Bax symphonies-which are all fine works, the early Havergal Brian symphonies (which were never performed of course at that time but we now recognise as immensely powerful works) but apart from those?

Rutland Boughton's 2nd and 3rd (1927 and 1937), George Lloyd's 1st, 2nd and 3rd (1932-1933), Cyril Roothams' 1st and 2nd (1937), Edmund Rubbra's 1st and 2nd (1937, 1939), the solitary symphonies of Gordon Jacob (No.1, 1929), Cecil Armstrong Gibbs (No.1, 1932), Cyril Scott (No.3, 1937) and those two magnificent works by Bliss (Colour Symphony) and Walton's 1st. (Tippett and Stanley Bate both withdrew their early symphonies.)

Does Holbrooke's 3rd claim a place in a list of 1920s British symphonies of real substance? Well......I am not yet convinced. The work may grow on me.....but it did not "grab" my attention on first hearing.

Sorry!
Dear Dundonnell
I agree on Boughton,Gordon Jacob,Bliss and Lloyd (also IMHO he reached maturity as symphonist with n°4).But i will add C.A.Gibbs Odysseus Symphony that reminds RVW "Sea" and E.J.Moeran First and Bainton Second
Best


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on March 30, 2019, 06:16:51 pm
Dear Toby,

How could I forget Moeran's Symphony in G minor ::)

I omitted the Gibbs Odysseus because it is a large-scale choral work (like Holst's Choral Symphony) and the Bainton Symphony No.2 because it was completed in 1940.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Toby Esterhase on March 30, 2019, 06:36:53 pm
Dear Toby,

How could I forget Moeran's Symphony in G minor ::)

I omitted the Gibbs Odysseus because it is a large-scale choral work (like Holst's Choral Symphony) and the Bainton Symphony No.2 because it was completed in 1940.
Dear Dundonnell
I forgot Dyson Symphony in G
Best


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on March 30, 2019, 07:21:08 pm
As did I ::)
However let's return to Holbrooke😉


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on March 30, 2019, 08:49:21 pm
I think you are looking for too much in "Ships", if I may say so, Dundonnell - at least if you are expecting symphonic argument. That's not what Holbrooke is about (to be honest, he wasn't very good at it - and probably knew it!). That's why, with the exception of the Choral Symphony "Homage to E.A. Poe" and possibly "Apollo and the Seaman" everything Joseph called a "symphony" is really more of a "suite". He was a very accomplished orchestrator (IMHO) and excelled at the symphonic poem, the mood painting: so if you think of "Ships" as a series of portraits I hope you will be less disappointed. Having read the score and listened to the CPO recording, both the unedited takes and the final version, many times, I must say I do rather like this work.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Toby Esterhase on March 30, 2019, 11:54:37 pm
I have a little question about Holbrooke.Why was he so hostile towards RVW?Yes their style was opposite,but at last RVW succedeed creating an English National school that was the goal of Holbrooke.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: soundwave106 on March 31, 2019, 01:10:24 am
I have a little question about Holbrooke.Why was he so hostile towards RVW?

Only reference I can Google with this slant ("Joseph Holbrooke: Composer, Critic, and Musical Patriot") suggests some bitterness on the relative lack of success. Particularly in the later years. This is not an uncommon thing for those who know they are falling into obscurity. However, I'd need more references to verify


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on March 31, 2019, 02:36:49 am
Joseph was not opposed to RVW but he became very bitter on his latter years because his music was shamefully neglected by the BBC and other outlets. And he and VW were close contemporaries. He hit out in frustration at a lot of people. But it is worth remembering that Joseph was a great champion of younger a British composers in his day.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on April 01, 2019, 01:37:16 am
Obviously I shall need to listen to "Ships" several times before reaching a more considered opinion. I was not looking for symphonic argument but rather for some "sense of occasion", some power, something which would strike me as distinctive. Treated as a Suite rather than a Symphony might be a better approach, I concede, but Holbrooke's earlier works (ie those written before WW1) and those inspired by Poe have a particular brooding intensity which appeals to me.

However........after listening several times I shall see if my initial impressions change (as I hope they will!)


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: jimfin on April 01, 2019, 09:24:49 am
I'm very much looking forward to my 'Ships', and I think what has been said about Holbrooke and symphonic argument or even 'sense of occasion' applies also to Bantock's symphonies, which are all pleasant but have never grabbed me in the way Omar Khayyam did. My favourite Holbrooke must remain 'The Bells', and I hope for a proper commercial recording of it, though the broadcast we have here serves fine at the moment. I would also love to hear at least one of the operas, though I imagine it's unlikely I ever will.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on April 02, 2019, 01:18:00 pm
I think you are looking for too much in "Ships", if I may say so, Dundonnell - at least if you are expecting symphonic argument. That's not what Holbrooke is about (to be honest, he wasn't very good at it - and probably knew it!). That's why, with the exception of the Choral Symphony "Homage to E.A. Poe" and possibly "Apollo and the Seaman" everything Joseph called a "symphony" is really more of a "suite". He was a very accomplished orchestrator (IMHO) and excelled at the symphonic poem, the mood painting: so if you think of "Ships" as a series of portraits I hope you will be less disappointed. Having read the score and listened to the CPO recording, both the unedited takes and the final version, many times, I must say I do rather like this work.
I must say,as someone who really enjoys Holbrooke's music,that I've always felt that large scale,abstract form & argument was not one of his best points. I'm chiefly attracted to his music because of his rich,somewhat,gothic (imo) imagination and the brilliancy of his orchestration. I enjoyed his Fourth Symphony. Like some of Langgaard's symphonies,which are more like suites than symphonies;but,imho,no less enjoyable for that! And one of the movements,of the Fourth Symphony,is so gorgeous.I think it's the second movement? I'll have to put it on,again (my memory!). It's like something out of Korngold. It never fails grab my attention. (Gareth may know the moment I'm referring to?) It makes me think what a fine film score Holbrooke could have composed,if he'd the opportunity,or,maybe,been inclined to do so?! If I'm looking for a tersely written,well argued symphony,I would certainly look elsewhere! The Cello Concerto,on the same cd,is another example! Yet,the concise,and,imo,cogently argued,little "Grasshopper" Violin Concerto,geniunely,surprised me! (The Dylan Prelude strikes me as another example;and I'd love to hear a really first rate orchestra tackling it! Come on Cpo! ;D)


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on April 02, 2019, 06:17:08 pm
I was going to add (but I could smell sausages cooking!! ;D) that,unlike Holbrooke (it seems? After all,I've only heard one Holbrooke symphony!!) Langgaard could put together a well argued symphony (symphonies 4 & 6,for example!). But I still find much to enjoy in some of the symphonies,which strike me as more like,glorified,suites (No 8,for example!). Of course,someone will probably point out that Langgaard is a finer,and more original composer;and,with respect to compositions like his,Music of the Spheres,he probably is?! (In fact,I think he is!) But I still like Holbrooke;and I was just making a point! Maybe someone else here can think of another symphony by a different composer,which they enjoy;even though it comes across as more akin to a suite?!


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on April 03, 2019, 07:44:55 pm
I have tried several more times with the Holbrooke Symphony No.3!

My conclusion is that the problem is of Holbrooke's own making. Had he entitled the work "Suite: "The Sea"" then I could accept such a designation and would, respectfully, suggest that this is the best way to listen to it. Ignoring the word "Symphony" and ignoring the movement titles I find it a pleasant, attractive though ultimately unmemorable work. The first movement "Warships" most certainly does not conjure up any warships I know! The second movement is positively Delian and, although I am not a fan of the music of Delius, I can appreciate the beauty of the music. The last movement is a jolly nautical romp based on a sea-shanty, good fun in a "light music" vein. The work "pretends" to something it fails to achieve.

....and it most certainly has nothing of the "gothic melodrama" of early Holbrooke!

The work CAN be enjoyed....but I cannot appreciate whatever merits it may possess as other than the Suite it actually is.

(and I do not enjoy being negative btw!!)


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: jimfin on April 09, 2019, 01:12:50 pm
My copy finally got to Japan. I'm enjoying it so far: the finale is good fun, along the lines of those of Stanford's Irish or George Lloyd's 4th, though perhaps those composers might have made more of the whole work. The slow movement has some wonderful sonorities, especially the saxophone (in general the extra winds in the work give it something special). The first movement I need more time with, and I need time too to see how well it hangs together.

We have now (to my knowledge) two Holbrooke symphonies in modern decent recordings: this and the 4th, both quoting well-known melodies, and I wonder how much they make us wish for the rest. I always enjoy Holbrooke, but I'm never sure whether I'm enjoying sonata form or pop music.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on April 10, 2019, 01:56:15 pm
I listened to all my Holbrooke cd's,a few months ago;and there was not one I didn't enjoy! Although,I'm afraid I will be waiting for this new cd to become available in the UK;and for the price to drop a bit! (If I was a bit better off I would have ordered it when it came out!) I listened to his Fourth symphony,a few days ago. It's more like a suite;and,admittedly,a bit of a curates egg;but the slow movement is gorgeous. There's one brief moment that's like something out of Korngold!  (Pure Hollywood!). But it's the colourful orchestration and the quirky,eccentricity of imagination that fascinates. I can't wait to hear his best music! (Queen Mab,Apollo and the Seaman) Talk of wonderful sonorities and a saxophone just increases my impatience to to hear this new cd.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: jimfin on April 11, 2019, 01:13:33 pm
Clive I'm going to be doing the same. I'm rather amazed, having put together a playlist of all the Holbrooke I have on record, that I have ten hours (and that's of different works, not duplicating versions). I have to say I always enjoy him and I'm glad there is so much more out there than there was. When I was a teenager, hearing a single note of Holbrooke was still an impossible dream.

Regarding symphonic argument, I remember Trevor Bray's biography of Bannock saying of Corder "he was not the type of teacher to instil great critical awareness in his pupils, and his three most gifted pupils, Josef [sic] Holbrooke, Bantock and Arnold Bao, all show a tendency towards the unrestrained. Their compositions tend to be too long".

I'm not sure it's completely accurate: Bax knew what he was doing with a symphony, but there is perhaps a meandering quality to the orchestral works of both Bantock and Holbrooke. But they do make some lovely orchestral sounds.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Albion on April 18, 2019, 08:57:28 pm
Josef (Joseph) is is one of those "marmite" composers who you either want to to hear more of or simply can't be arsed. These three volumes from CPO have given us a showcase of his orchestral virtuosity; together with the two Dutton discs  (Symphony 4, Cello Concerto, Aucussin and Nicolette, Saxophone Concerto). If I could envisage further recordings of Queen Mab, The Bells and Apollo and the the Seaman this will have given us a comprehensive view of this composer's finest achievements...

 :)


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on April 19, 2019, 12:34:18 pm
Yes. Those last three works are absolutely essential.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on April 19, 2019, 05:28:11 pm
Josef (Joseph) is is one of those "marmite" composers who you either want to to hear more of or simply can't be arsed. These three volumes from CPO have given us a showcase of his orchestral virtuosity; together with the two Dutton discs  (Symphony 4, Cello Concerto, Aucussin and Nicolette, Saxophone Concerto). If I could envisage further recordings of Queen Mab, The Bells and Apollo and the the Seaman this will have given us a comprehensive view of this composer's finest achievements...

 :)
Luckily,for me;I love Marmite!! :)
By the way! Remember the Marmite thread,here?!! (I seem to remember I was the fool who said he preferred,Vegemite?!! :o ;D)


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: the Administration on April 19, 2019, 07:29:14 pm
Josef (Joseph) is is one of those "marmite" composers who you either want to to hear more of or simply can't be arsed. These three volumes from CPO have given us a showcase of his orchestral virtuosity; together with the two Dutton discs  (Symphony 4, Cello Concerto, Aucussin and Nicolette, Saxophone Concerto). If I could envisage further recordings of Queen Mab, The Bells and Apollo and the the Seaman this will have given us a comprehensive view of this composer's finest achievements...

 :)
Luckily,for me;I love Marmite!! :)
By the way! Remember the Marmite thread,here?!! (I seem to remember I was the fool who said he preferred,Vegemite?!! :o ;D)

 ??? ::)

It is the beginning of a holiday weekend so I shall be indulgent.........but really!


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on April 20, 2019, 08:01:08 pm
Josef (Joseph) is is one of those "marmite" composers who you either want to to hear more of or simply can't be arsed. These three volumes from CPO have given us a showcase of his orchestral virtuosity; together with the two Dutton discs  (Symphony 4, Cello Concerto, Aucussin and Nicolette, Saxophone Concerto). If I could envisage further recordings of Queen Mab, The Bells and Apollo and the the Seaman this will have given us a comprehensive view of this composer's finest achievements...

 :)
I think they will be recorded at some point! Really good performances and recordings like this allow people to get to know a composer. You play,spot the influences,at first;but,the more you hear,the more apparent it becomes,that the composer has his (or her?) own personality,and,finger prints,that mark them out. Holbrooke,obviously,was a bit of,stick in the mud,late romantic;but his music has a quirky,individuality;and gothic,eccentricity,which marks him out from some of the other also rans,of that period. I think it's getting,pretty obvious,by now. At least,to my ears,that the "cockney wagner" label,was,not just unfair,but innacurate. I can see an influence on the Cauldron of Annwn cycle,yes! But some of the more astringent sounds I hear,in the Dylan prelude (in the faster passages) actually make me think more of late Sibelius,than Wagner! Not that I would like to compare Holbrooke,with the great Finnish,composer! That astringency,is particularly,evident,in some of the later works;like Amontillado,for example! And then,there's the,Prelude to the Bells,which makes me think of Russian composers;and even,fleetingly,of Ravel. (There is no Wagner!!) Although,Holbrooke's palette is,to my ears,less refined,than the French master.

And,so it goes! The more we are able to hear;the more we will be able to extract the real Holbrooke,from,received opinion,and the vagaries of,fickle,fashion!


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Gauk on May 13, 2019, 09:28:31 pm
I have to say I find Holbrooke #4 rather disappointing. I have no problem with it being called a symphony, but he overworks the Schubert scherzo and doesn't really add anything much.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Clambert on June 12, 2019, 04:59:33 pm
I'm afraid I'm somewhat underwhelmed by the new CPO disc, but I have to say I think that's more than a little down to the performances, which strike me as not much more than rather tepid runs-through;  for example, listen to how much more carefully Vernon Handley shaped and phrased The Birds of Rhiannon, whereas in this reading it rather just meanders along...Music with such a tendency to prolixity such as Holbrookes - the first movement of Ships being a case in point - really needs the acute ear and sensitivity of a Beecham: what a shame he never recorded any. (I once saw Howard Griffiths described by a famously dyspeptic US reviewer as a "routinier", and took great objection to the term, but I now wonder; this is music that needs much more than simply beating time....)

Having said which, I do hope someone (else) finally records The Bells one day - a splendid piece right up with the best of his work, but which definitely needs a razor-sharp performance from all involved...


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on June 20, 2019, 07:04:27 pm
And here's a satisfied customer!! ;D I received the new Holbrooke cd,yesterday! I'm afraid,I,really,enjoyed everything on it! :o ;D Particularly,the symphony! It took more than one,or two,listens to assimilate what I was hearing;but I liked it! Again,for me,it's Holbrooke's flair for orchestration,that really does it for me. The second movement (Hospitalships) opens mysteriously and has to have some of his most evocative music. I think it might just be one of my favourite Holbrooke movements,now! And it was great to be able to hear the final movement in it's entirety,at long last!! I found the whole work wholly intriguing and absorbing! Yes,it's more like a suite;but it's all the wonderful sounds that keep me listening. I never know quite what to expect,really! There's an eccentricity about Holbrooke's imagination,to my ears,that,really,marks him out from some of his more conventional,contemporary,late romantic,wannabees!
As to the other works on the cd. I actually didn't think I knew,"The girl I left behind me"! Of course,I knew the tune immediately!  Again! If you're expecting something like the Enigma Variations,you might be disappointed! But,oh,what gorgeous orchestration! Yes,it rambles a bit;but in a wholly delightful,entertaining,idiosyncratic way,that keeps me listening! I think this might be my favourite Holbrooke variations,after "Auld Lang Syne,on the earlier Cpo cd!
All in all,the only disappointment,as far as I'm concerned,is that there isn't going to follow up cd from Cpo,with another symphony,concerto or ballet! :( A wonderful cd! :) And Gareth Vaughan, definitely,has quite a career opening up as a booklet note,writer!!


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on June 20, 2019, 11:19:40 pm
Dear Cilgwyn,
Thank you for your kind words. I am so pleased you enjoyed the disk, especially "Ships". Holbrooke's orchestral imagination is always so excitingly colourful especially, IMHO, in his writing for wind instruments. That 2nd movt of "Ships" is breathtaking, I find, while the variations are very entertaining and almost Ivesian in places. That observation, by the way, is not mine. It was made by the distinguished musicologist, David Brown (author of the 4 volume biography of Tchaikovsky) when he heard them first at a concert I organised in London at the Cadogan Hall back in 2010.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on June 21, 2019, 05:53:11 pm
I respect the views of those who have enjoyed the new disc. I also appreciate the observations about Holbrooke's orchestration. There is indeed much to enjoy in the music.

The problem for me is related to expectations of the Symphony. If a work is called a symphony and if it is in essence a programme symphony then I expect it to deliver. Obviously that does not necessarily mean in the classical definition of symphonic form but at least as a work of real substance. Strauss's Alpine Symphony or RVW's London Symphony or Sinfonia Antarctica deliver genuine power, substance and programmatic evocation.

Sadly, I think Holbrooke aims too high. The fact that the work was alternatively titled suggests some confusion in the composer's own mind which ships and which time he is thinking of. The cd cover picture does depict warships of World War One and given the date of composition of the symphony it seems clear that we are being invited to think of the vessels of that time. If that is the case then the first movement in particular needs to conjure up vistas of imposing power and strength and that it fails to achieve to my ears. The music is attractive and pleasant and certainly demonstrates the skill in orchestration already mentioned. And had Holbrooke more modest designs and expectations both of himself and for his listeners then, as a Suite, the work would work perfectly well. But, as a programme symphony I feel that it fails to achieve the drama, the power, the evocative magic that other composers might have achieved with a similar subject.

I derive absolutely no pleasure from my sense of disappointment with the work. Holbrooke's earlier compositions, and in particular those inspired by Poe, the Gothic melodrama, work extremely well. He achieves what he sets out to do. I am just not convinced that in this symphony he did so. Perhaps I expected too much? Listening to the music freed from the programmatic subtext might well be a better way to tackle the listening experience.

But of course this is a personal response to the music. The enthusiastic response of others should not and will not be diminished by my reservations.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: cilgwyn on July 07, 2019, 10:59:14 pm
A rave review,on Musicweb,of the new Cpo,Holbrooke cd! :)

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2019/Jul/Holbrooke_sy3_5550412.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2019/Jul/Holbrooke_sy3_5550412.htm)


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: relm1 on July 08, 2019, 01:28:33 am
I am not a big admirer of Holbrooke's works.  Just don't think it has staying power with me or anything I would want to hear again.  Am I missing something? 


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on July 10, 2019, 12:32:50 am
A rave review,on Musicweb,of the new Cpo,Holbrooke cd! :)

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2019/Jul/Holbrooke_sy3_5550412.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2019/Jul/Holbrooke_sy3_5550412.htm)

It is indeed an extremely enthusiastic review and it is perfectly proper that you draw our attention to it.

I do note two things however: one, the strange use of the phrase "overwhelmingly soporific" in reference to the last movement of the symphony and secondly (and more importantly) the clear indication that the reviewer is unfamiiar with Holbrooke's other music. This latter is an unfortunately common feature of reviews on Musicweb. My contention is that the music on the new cd does not match early Holbrooke. In addition rather too often the reviewer admits to not having heard alternative versions of pieces when these are available.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Grandenorm on July 10, 2019, 07:55:10 am
I too was brought up short by the reviewer's phrase "overwhelmingly soporific" (referring to the 2nd movt, by the way, not the last). I can only think he means "restful". I am afraid many reviewers use words of the precisely nuanced meaning of which they seem ignorant - or, worse, use completely the wrong word. For example, I have observed the adjective "crepuscular" employed in a review when the only possible interpretation of its intended meaning from the context was "shell-like", which, of course, it most certainly does NOT mean, and never has.
However, the review is a good one and I am glad that Holbrooke's music made such a positive impression on that listener.


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Albion on July 11, 2019, 03:39:16 pm
However, the review is a good one and I am glad that Holbrooke's music made such a positive impression on that listener.

Yes, this is good exposure for the (hopefully) ongoing CPO project. I find more immediate gratification in Holbrooke's pre-World War One compositions, but there is plenty to enjoy in his later output, not least his continuing and developing mastery of the orchestra. The later music needs more repeated listening (as does so much obscure repertoire) in order to "fix" it in the mind but I, for one, am infinitely grateful to have the chance to do this thanks to Dutton and CPO. As mentioned above there are still considerable gaps in our knowledge, especially the early choral works which cry out for dedicated professional performance with all specified orchestral forces covered (unlike the otherwise admirable BBC studio recording of The Bells). This should be issued by Lyrita in lieu of a modern rendition.

 :)


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Dundonnell on July 11, 2019, 03:42:50 pm
I cannot but agree with what John has just written :)


Title: Re: Joseph Holbrooke from CPO
Post by: Gauk on July 14, 2019, 10:25:04 pm
A French friend of mine who thought he knew English better than he did, once remarked of something he disapproved of, "Ugh! They are terrific!"