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Preliminaries => Greetings => Topic started by: Balapoel on April 13, 2015, 10:55:45 pm



Title: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: Balapoel on April 13, 2015, 10:55:45 pm
hi all,
Just a note to let you know that I've officially broken any ties to Unsung Composers (UC). We've all had our share of problems, particularly with one moderator: Alan. I thought I'd share my experiences.

This morning, after researching new information on Gernsheim's chamber music, I made a post, with new content (i.e., a more comprehensive list of his chamber music than UC had at the time). Alan, in his usual ridiculous fashion, immediately jumped and said "do a search for previous threads". Of course, no previous threads have this information, and of course, in a few hours, there were already 151 views and several replies.

I mentioned that I have started a new thread at this site, only to find Alan had precipitously removed my entire post (without asking me), even though it broke no rules.

I responded positively to another poster on the thread, again linking to the thread on this site if they want to find out more, with the hope that that post wouldn't be deleted like the last one. Apparently that's the one thing that Alan hates more than anything: to let anyone else in on the fact that he's got a minor Napoleon complex.

I was treated to a nasty email from Alan that I thought I'd post. Keep in mind, he banned me (unilaterally) for the offense of posting new information and letting folks know where they could get it. Truly childish behavior.

I'm sorry, but I'm not prepared to put up with your behaviour, which is quite uncalled for. Since you have once again defied a moderator's ruling, I am cancelling your membership of UC.
Alan Howe

----
If one feels any need to respond to Mr. Alan Howe (since I don't think I'm the only one who's had this experience), you can at mark@raff.org

-----
in sum, we have learned that
1. UC moderators have impunity to take down any post they want, even if it merely hurts their ego (or whatever thing got Alan in a huffy).
2. UC is not really interested in fostering an atmosphere of collegiality
3. UC will not get anything from me ever again - and I only wish I could remove all the content I've posted there over the years. Hopefully someone got something out of it.

Cheers,
Balapoel


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: dhibbard on April 13, 2015, 11:14:32 pm
well.. my experience there hasn't been any better..


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: tapiola on April 14, 2015, 12:12:12 am
I found the website absolutely horrible. I was quickly banned for telling Alan what I thought of him. . . . Sad the wonderful music is so poorly represented by this person.  But, it's his own little world.


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: shamus on April 14, 2015, 01:50:00 am
I "lurk" there on the wildly improbable notion that there might be an interesting download someday (there hasn't been for months), and I avoid all "monitor" comments. Any time I have contributed anything it is either completely ignored or criticized. Who are those people?


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: Dundonnell on April 14, 2015, 04:46:33 am
Many members of this site will probably be familiar with my own experiences at UC.

I certainly have no intention of rehearsing the circumstances which lay behind the decision of the two owners of UC to ban me.

What caused me such genuine pain was the gratuitously insulting and abusive message I received at that time. Given that I had devoted so much time and energy to compiling catalogues of the orchestral music of around 600 composers and posted these on that site in the hope that they might be of some use to others I cannot recall feeling so bitterly upset.

The Art-Music Forum restored my faith in the essential decency of fellow music-lovers and remains a splendid example of how we can share our knowledge, our enthusiasms and our commitment to civilised discourse.


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: Balapoel on April 14, 2015, 05:03:38 am
I too, remember what happened when you left. I couldn't believe after all I've done for them (for FREE), that they would be so insulting...


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: Balapoel on April 14, 2015, 05:06:33 am
Also, now that I'm here, I can share some of my research on composer catalogues (not just orchestra) for about 1,871 (current total) with everyone here.


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: ahinton on April 14, 2015, 07:39:32 am
Well, I've not been banned from there, although I suppose I might as well have been since I've not even visited the place for longer than I can remember with certainty.

I fell foul of its then unwritten agenda before Alan posted this


Should I post here? How does Unsung Composers define "romantic music"?
« on: Monday 13 August 2012, 17:48 »
Unsung Composers is "for the open-minded lover of music from the romantic era". Our members are interested in the music and lives of nowadays less well known composers writing in the "romantic" style and also in the unsung works of the great romantic composers.

A necessarily loose definition of romantic music:
The new Grove Dictionary takes 5200 words to describe Romanticism in music without being able to define it and yet, generally speaking, we know it when we hear it: it's music written by the likes of Beethoven, Mendelssohn, Wagner, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Dvorak, Mahler and Bruckner to name some of its most famous exponents.  Traditional time frames for music's "romantic era" have it beginning with Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony (1808) and ending with Stravinsky's Sacre du printemps (1913) or, alternatively, lasting from the end of the Napoleonic wars to the end of the First World War (1815-1918). But it's not a simple as that: some composers who are arguably "romantic" flourished outside those time frames: Beethoven and Schubert before the start and Elgar and Rachmaninov after its close for example. Some composers did not actively compose until well after the traditional period and yet wrote, and still write, in a recognisably romantic idiom: examples being Marx, Korngold, Atterberg, Furtwängler, many composers of film music and today's Schmidt-Kowalski. The romantic idiom itself changed hugely from the early post-classical romanticism of Mendelssohn, say, to the very late-romanticism of Mahler, via the revolutionary innovations of Wagner and Liszt. Overall, though, music of the romantic era still shares recognisable attributes: the restrained employment (if at all) of dissonance, a reliance on 19th century models of harmony and construction and the fundamental importance of melody. Mere tonality, without strong elements of these other characteristics, does not qualify music as being romantic in style.

The focus of UC has now shifted to being solely about romantic music but previous posts about music in later styles have not been deleted, so do not rely on the fact that a composer or piece of music has been discussed previously as an indication of eligibility now.  Please do not post about composers or compositions which clearly fall outside our definition of "romantic". Your post will not be approved. If you are in any doubt, and in any event if the music was written after 1918, please email or PM a moderator before posting.

To preserve the knowledge which they contain, the forum's Archive boards have many posts about 20th century composers and music in particular which would not now fall within the focus of Unsung Composers.


So Alan takes almost 250 words to tell us that the true definition of "romantic" music is his and no one else's and that, henceforward, should any member have been in doubt, only music that meets with his approval may be mentioned on his forum; not unnaturally, as a composer active today, my place is not there. So "Unsung Composers", which has its own definition not dependent upon or influenced by Alan, is not what that forum is after all about; it's about what Alan deems to be acceptable for discussionon his forum.

Its value therefore speaks for itself and, frankly, I cannot feign surprise at the oddity of certain behaviour in that neck of the woods.


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: cilgwyn on April 14, 2015, 10:39:42 am
I found the website absolutely horrible. I was quickly banned for telling Alan what I thought of him. . . . Sad the wonderful music is so poorly represented by this person.  But, it's his own little world.
A pity,indeed! I do like allot of the music they discuss there. I even like Raff. At best a very accomplished and talented composer. Also,one of those interesting puzzles. What happened? Why the decline in his reputation? Is it deserved? I can understand why some people would find him interesting. Spohr is another example. I find his music very satisfying. Draeseke,who I have yet to hear,is often discussed there. He sounds intriguing. The recently released boxed set from Cpo is tempting. His third symphony was widely performed. Some people seem to think he's a neglected master. Some don't!! And then there is Rubinstein. I eventually collected all six symphonies and spent allot of time mulling over them. A great pianist,a mediocre composer? Intriguing,yes? Unfortunately,I eventually came to the conclusion that while he obviously had a facility for colourful,engaging scoring,he didn't really have allot to say! I still quite like his Second and Fourth symphonies,though. And the symphonies I collected are all on my hard drive,for the purpose of future reference. If a label like Cpo ever give a Rubinstein symphony the kind of recording that Raff and Spohr have been treated to recently,I may even have another go?!! The recordings on Russian Disc and Marco are pretty awful. I seem to recall that a long deleted recording of the 'Ocean' symphony on the Turnabout label (never released on cd) was preferable to anything currently available! Look at the Spohr symphonies,for example. I collected all the Marco Polo recordings. They have been superseded by the cycles on Hyperion and Cpo. I personally found the Cpo recordings a revelation.....but in all fairness,the Marco Polo performances were competent. In fact,if the recording quality was better I would actually prefer them to the Hyperion cycle! Likewise Raff was represented by some decent recordings,prior to the superb Tudor cycle. And while the Raff Tudor cycle hasn't been the revelation that the Cpo Spohr cycle was......the quality of the performances has finally convinced me that Raff 1 is actually (although a little uneven) one of his most worthwhile and interesting symphonies,and Raff 2 and 6 are actually worth my attention.
I still don't think he's as good as the UC Forum say he is,though!! ;D
They also discuss other intriguing figures like Franz Lachner. His Fifth symphony is massive and has been described by some as a sort of 'missing link'! But I seem to recall reading that George Lloyd was outside their 'remit'?!! Wow!! ???
So,lot's of interesting music being discussed there and food for thought for people who are interested in that kind of repertoire. But I'd rather post here or at the GMG!! Maybe I should start a 'Romantic Composers Forum?!! Everyone would know what sort of music they were supposed to discuss!

That said,I have recently been absolutely and completely 'blown away' (as they say) by the music of Roussel and Honneger!!


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: guest140 on April 14, 2015, 01:24:07 pm
Just one question - and I don't have a side in this whole story -: Is Alan the owner of the website and the forum? And if that is so, I think it is his good right to say his opinion on romantic and ban whoever he wants. Its like a shop: If you like it go there and show good behaviour. If you spoil the party, the owner kicks you out. And if you don't like the shop you go shopping elsewhere. So where is the problem?

Best,
Tobias


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: ahinton on April 14, 2015, 02:45:42 pm
Just one question - and I don't have a side in this whole story -: Is Alan the owner of the website and the forum? And if that is so, I think it is his good right to say his opinion on romantic and ban whoever he wants. Its like a shop: If you like it go there and show good behaviour. If you spoil the party, the owner kicks you out. And if you don't like the shop you go shopping elsewhere. So where is the problem?
The problem - at least insofar as I understand it - is that being as dictatorial and restrictive as his particular one appears to be (while still calling the forum "Unsung Composers", which could be interpreted as being general rather than restrictive) does it no favours and, speaking from my own experience, I fell foul of this before he made it clearer what his agenda and parameters actually were/are, in that I would never have joined it in the first place had I known at the outset what isn't welcome there. I suppose that I could be said nevertheless to have "shown good behaviour" there, which is probably why I've not been banned but, in fact, I've not behaved there at all since it was made clear to me what's not to be discussed there because that discouraged me from making further contribution to it since 2012, other than a small number of probably risky posts about Szymanowski...


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: dhibbard on April 14, 2015, 03:37:08 pm
I had that same argument with the moderator of UC....   (what's 'romantic era' music and not romantic era)... anyway, after he deleted my post there, I haven't been back.


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: Balapoel on April 14, 2015, 03:46:25 pm
The problem, from my perspective, isn't the overly restrictive nature of the forum, it's the vehemence with which one (of the three) moderators went after posters who didn't break any rules. Ultimately, it created a hostile atmosphere, which is why I posted there less and less. And no, he isn't the only owner, Mark is, who is much more reasonable, and has apologized for Alan's behavior before.


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: Dundonnell on April 14, 2015, 04:00:32 pm
Just one question - and I don't have a side in this whole story -: Is Alan the owner of the website and the forum? And if that is so, I think it is his good right to say his opinion on romantic and ban whoever he wants. Its like a shop: If you like it go there and show good behaviour. If you spoil the party, the owner kicks you out. And if you don't like the shop you go shopping elsewhere. So where is the problem?

Best,
Tobias

Yes, I understand that he is one of the two co-owners of the site and, again, yes he has the right therefore to define the parameters for what may be included and what may be excluded from discussion. The issue-one of many-was that those parameters were changed after several members, including myself, had given so much of our time and of the fruits of our research to the site. We were then-essentially-informed that our commitment and our contributions were henceforward of no value.

"....show good behaviour....."    "....spoil the party...."  ??? ???

These are perhaps somewhat emotive phrases to describe the "conduct" of the members so unceremoniously "kicked out".

I was banned because I had the temerity to contact a few other members and to inform them that I had been told by email that I was both "obsessional" and "unable to work with others".

It is a moot point whether an "obsession" is in fact a "bad thing" ;D I freely confess to being obsessional about my desire to communicate my enthusiasms about a lot of 20th century orchestral music to others, Is that "wrong" ??? If you don't like my posts then don't read them ;D  And "unable to work with others" ??? ???

.....However...this has unfortunately reopened very real wounds which I would have much preferred to have forgotten and it is entirely my own fault that I have allowed myself to write this response.

There is really nothing more I should or will add. I have better things now to do with my time.....and contributing to this site is-hopefully-one of them :)


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: shamus on April 14, 2015, 05:07:30 pm
Yeah, I should have kept my own peace, too, but let's not let this site go bad, also, by concentrating on something that went wrong in someone else's constricted world.
 This site is way too much better and it is such a consolation to have a place to go. And fortunately there is no reason why we can't discuss romantic composers (whom many of us love) here as much as we want.
 I often think of Ernest Hemingway's story "A Clean Well-Lighted Place", and how it suggests how just knowing there's a place you can go and not be ill-treated is so important. I like talking about how the music makes me feel, more than focusing on musicological intricacies. I appreciate that I hear less about whose music I "should" like or not here--I will make that decision myself.
Sydney did a wonderful thing by giving us this place to come to. If someone wants to have their "own" forum, indeed, they can do what they want with it, and as Tobias says no one is required to go there. The word "forum" has always suggested an exchange of ideas from many viewpoints, rather than a place for someone to control the content, perhaps a blog would be the best place for that.
I am sorry so many people have been hurt, including myself in small ways, and I hope that people who can so easily strike out at others and cause pain can come to terms with what is hurting themselves enough to make them do that. It is hard to be forgiving when people I have come to regard as "friends"  are attacked, but fighting meanness with the same is a black hole I can no longer afford.
Perhaps we all can contribute more to this forum, more uploads, more genuine expressions of delight with this massive field of classical music, from any era with a clearer feeling of safety. Sometimes, even here, I am ignored or picked at but there is more than enough good and hopeful stuff to keep me coming back, anyway.
So be warned, I am here. I don't feel being open to many sides or many opinions makes me wishy-washy, though I do consider most serious music to have a spiritual sense to it and responses to nebulous things such as spirituality, while very personal may still have some value when one attempts to share them with others.
Oh well. Jim


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: Balapoel on April 14, 2015, 06:15:46 pm
Yeah, I agree. I've said my peace - and I'm glad I'm here. Enough from me.
Cheers,
Balapoel


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: Albion on April 14, 2015, 09:06:09 pm
Briefly, I got totally f*cked off and left them to it because I resented

a. being told that composers I was interested in were worthless;

b. being told that anybody who hadn't written a "masterpiece" was not worth investigating;

c. being treated as a disobedient schoolboy for arguing otherwise.

What a bunch of w*nkers.

 :)


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: cilgwyn on April 14, 2015, 11:55:33 pm
 ;D Great stuff!


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: Christo on March 05, 2017, 11:06:12 am
What a bunch of w*nkers.
 :)

Nice way of putting it.  :D


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: Albion on March 05, 2017, 06:31:27 pm
What a bunch of w*nkers.
 :)

Nice way of putting it.  :D

Lol, don't think much has changed. Bloody dry-as-dust...  ;D

I fear there'll be no reprieve for Poor Old Gadsby.  ::)


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: christopher on March 05, 2017, 10:33:12 pm
What a bunch of w*nkers.
 :)

Nice way of putting it.  :D

Lol, don't think much has changed. Bloody dry-as-dust...  ;D

I fear there'll be no reprieve for Poor Old Gadsby.  ::)


Yes - BUT - there is discussion there too, even if the comments are somewhat snide at times.  Here it can sometimes be all too silent.


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: Gauk on March 08, 2017, 06:15:37 pm
What provoked the necro-posting? Something new happen?


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: dhibbard on March 08, 2017, 11:31:52 pm
What provoked the necro-posting? Something new happen?

oh...at least no one gets banned or has their thread "locked"....not that it happens from time to time...  sure do miss the Tower Records days when one could stop in during the lunch break and chat with fellow classical listeners about the new releases.. oh well.  :(


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: BrianA on March 09, 2017, 02:41:01 am
What provoked the necro-posting? Something new happen?

"necro-posting" - best new word I've ever gotten from this site.   ;D


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: dhibbard on March 09, 2017, 04:36:16 am
What provoked the necro-posting? Something new happen?

"necro-posting" - best new word I've ever gotten from this site.   ;D

think that means come back from the dead monthly and post something...??


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: Dundonnell on March 09, 2017, 06:28:20 am
Bet they still have my catalogues on their b****y site!! I am on holiday (in New Zealand, did I mention that?) so I won't bother getting cross.......again


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: Christo on March 09, 2017, 07:01:06 am
I was rebuked by one of the moderators when I dared to mention Holmboe there. Holmboe!  :o


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: dhibbard on March 09, 2017, 03:21:56 pm
I mentioned Langgaard  and was promptly yelled at... even tho he is "late romantic"  ... they said he was 20th century.... didn't fit in nicely with their already decided definition of what is romantic era....:(


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: Balapoel on March 09, 2017, 04:06:47 pm
For what it's worth, I asked them to remove my contributions, including a number of catalogues as well - they didn't do it... I'm well past it - this is a much better forum, in all respects.


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: cilgwyn on March 09, 2017, 05:27:10 pm
I found the website absolutely horrible. I was quickly banned for telling Alan what I thought of him. . . . Sad the wonderful music is so poorly represented by this person.  But, it's his own little world.
A pity,indeed! I do like allot of the music they discuss there. I even like Raff. At best a very accomplished and talented composer. Also,one of those interesting puzzles. What happened? Why the decline in his reputation? Is it deserved? I can understand why some people would find him interesting. Spohr is another example. I find his music very satisfying. Draeseke,who I have yet to hear,is often discussed there. He sounds intriguing. The recently released boxed set from Cpo is tempting. His third symphony was widely performed. Some people seem to think he's a neglected master. Some don't!! And then there is Rubinstein. I eventually collected all six symphonies and spent allot of time mulling over them. A great pianist,a mediocre composer? Intriguing,yes? Unfortunately,I eventually came to the conclusion that while he obviously had a facility for colourful,engaging scoring,he didn't really have allot to say! I still quite like his Second and Fourth symphonies,though. And the symphonies I collected are all on my hard drive,for the purpose of future reference. If a label like Cpo ever give a Rubinstein symphony the kind of recording that Raff and Spohr have been treated to recently,I may even have another go?!! The recordings on Russian Disc and Marco are pretty awful. I seem to recall that a long deleted recording of the 'Ocean' symphony on the Turnabout label (never released on cd) was preferable to anything currently available! Look at the Spohr symphonies,for example. I collected all the Marco Polo recordings. They have been superseded by the cycles on Hyperion and Cpo. I personally found the Cpo recordings a revelation.....but in all fairness,the Marco Polo performances were competent. In fact,if the recording quality was better I would actually prefer them to the Hyperion cycle! Likewise Raff was represented by some decent recordings,prior to the superb Tudor cycle. And while the Raff Tudor cycle hasn't been the revelation that the Cpo Spohr cycle was......the quality of the performances has finally convinced me that Raff 1 is actually (although a little uneven) one of his most worthwhile and interesting symphonies,and Raff 2 and 6 are actually worth my attention.
I still don't think he's as good as the UC Forum say he is,though!! ;D
They also discuss other intriguing figures like Franz Lachner. His Fifth symphony is massive and has been described by some as a sort of 'missing link'! But I seem to recall reading that George Lloyd was outside their 'remit'?!! Wow!! ???
So,lot's of interesting music being discussed there and food for thought for people who are interested in that kind of repertoire. But I'd rather post here or at the GMG!! Maybe I should start a 'Romantic Composers Forum?!! Everyone would know what sort of music they were supposed to discuss!

That said,I have recently been absolutely and completely 'blown away' (as they say) by the music of Roussel and Honneger!!
Of course,it's aso possible that I only keep all nine of my complete Tudor Raff symphony cycle cds,because the jewel case look so great with those Arnold Böcklin paintings on the front. The whole design of those cds is so eye catching imo. Better than the music inside,perhaps?!! ;D ;D Seriously,I do like some of his symphonies. At his best his music is colourfully orchestrated and genuinely imaginative. He's just not the genius they try and make him out to be,over there. Spohr's better,anyway!! :o ;D

I don't understand why they would ban Dundonnell,though?!! One of the most polite,diplomatic people I have ever met on any online forum (or message board). And that dry sense of humour. When you think of some of the characters you 'bump into' online? The internet equivalent of that chap who thinks you're staring at him in the pub!! :o

And there I am using that word genius again! ::) Who cares if Raff was a genius or not,those Tudor cds look far too pretty for the charity shop! ;D


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: Albion on March 09, 2017, 08:36:48 pm
Who cares if Raff was a genius or not,those Tudor cds look far too pretty for the charity shop! ;D


Spoken like a true eclectic after my own heart. I reckon that CPO could come up with some pretty covers for a Cipriani Potter symphony cycle...

 ;D


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: BrianA on March 09, 2017, 10:42:16 pm
Who cares if Raff was a genius or not,those Tudor cds look far too pretty for the charity shop! ;D


Spoken like a true eclectic after my own heart. I reckon that CPO could come up with some pretty covers for a Cipriani Potter symphony cycle...

 ;D

My own musical centre of gravity is probably more around Mahler-Sibelius than Raff et al, but let me tell you, I would happily shell out good money for a good (or even adequate) Potter symphony cycle.   ;D

Brian


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: Gauk on March 10, 2017, 06:44:32 pm
What is mildly amusing about UC is their completely inconsistent approach to what is "romantic" music, such that some composers that definitely do fit that label they reject, and others who don't, they accept. Their stated "definition" is a joke. The REAL definition that applies over there is "music by composers the moderators like". The moderators also confuse neo-romanticism and late romanticism. Being dogmatic and right is one thing, but dogmatic and wrong is just annoying.

Besides, how can you properly discuss music with such taboos in place? I toyed with the idea of setting up a forum to discuss thargist music. This is very easy to define precisely. Thargist music is anything that (a) is not in D minor, and (b) doesn't have trombones in it. People would only be allowed to discuss music that met these criteria! Half the posts would be complaints that someone dared to mention a work in which the third movement trio is actually in D minor.


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: dhibbard on March 10, 2017, 09:48:50 pm
Ha   funny..


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: cilgwyn on March 11, 2017, 10:36:34 am
Yes,very funny indeed. I think I'll join. It'll be even more fun when every single thread is locked!! ??? ;D


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: dhibbard on March 11, 2017, 07:03:07 pm
Who cares if Raff was a genius or not,those Tudor cds look far too pretty for the charity shop! ;D


Spoken like a true eclectic after my own heart. I reckon that CPO could come up with some pretty covers for a Cipriani Potter symphony cycle...

 ;D
. I only see one CD available on Amazon. Would like to see the cycle.


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: BigEdLB on June 23, 2017, 09:15:40 am
What is mildly amusing about UC is their completely inconsistent approach to what is "romantic" music, such that some composers that definitely do fit that label they reject, and others who don't, they accept. Their stated "definition" is a joke. The REAL definition that applies over there is "music by composers the moderators like". The moderators also confuse neo-romanticism and late romanticism. Being dogmatic and right is one thing, but dogmatic and wrong is just annoying.

Besides, how can you properly discuss music with such taboos in place? I toyed with the idea of setting up a forum to discuss thargist music. This is very easy to define precisely. Thargist music is anything that (a) is not in D minor, and (b) doesn't have trombones in it. People would only be allowed to discuss music that met these criteria! Half the posts would be complaints that someone dared to mention a work in which the third movement trio is actually in D minor.


I think I may have you all beat in terms of an experience at Unsung Composers.  A user named semiloh started a thread about me on  UC.  I am a composer.  And this Howe character absolutely went nuts.  Even if I tried to post within the scope of what "Emperor Alan" supposedly said the scope was I got nothing but rude and condescending remarks.  Know nothing about Howe but suspect that he may be typical of that ilk.  A person with a musical degree and no talent to compose.  I have almost no formal training, so I annoy people like Howe .  Will be happy to share where my music can be heard if anyone is curious


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: dhibbard on June 23, 2017, 03:40:03 pm
Thanks BigEd... I will give it a listen this weekend.


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: Gauk on June 23, 2017, 06:21:21 pm
I think I may have you all beat in terms of an experience at Unsung Composers.  A user named semiloh started a thread about me on  UC.  I am a composer.  And this Howe character absolutely went nuts.  Even if I tried to post within the scope of what "Emperor Alan" supposedly said the scope was I got nothing but rude and condescending remarks.  Know nothing about Howe but suspect that he may be typical of that ilk.  A person with a musical degree and no talent to compose.  I have almost no formal training, so I annoy people like Howe .  Will be happy to share where my music can be heard if anyone is curious

I think I heard that he is a school teacher. I very much doubt that he has a musical degree. His technical knowledge seems rather limited.


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: cilgwyn on June 23, 2017, 07:04:50 pm
I found the website absolutely horrible. I was quickly banned for telling Alan what I thought of him. . . . Sad the wonderful music is so poorly represented by this person.  But, it's his own little world.
I believe the Unsung Composers Forum originated as a Raff forum (or Message Board?) or as an offshoot from the Raff website? The Raff site is run by the same people who operate and moderate the 'Unsung Composers' forum;and they have also published some books relating to that composer. It seems a great pity,in a way,that such an undoubtedly talented composer,who (whatever your view of his ultimate place in the musical heirachy) can undoubtedly provide allot of listening pleasure for music lovers,is represented by such people!


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: BigEdLB on June 23, 2017, 07:14:45 pm
I think I may have you all beat in terms of an experience at Unsung Composers.  A user named semiloh started a thread about me on  UC.  I am a composer.  And this Howe character absolutely went nuts.  Even if I tried to post within the scope of what "Emperor Alan" supposedly said the scope was I got nothing but rude and condescending remarks.  Know nothing about Howe but suspect that he may be typical of that ilk.  A person with a musical degree and no talent to compose.  I have almost no formal training, so I annoy people like Howe .  Will be happy to share where my music can be heard if anyone is curious

I think I heard that he is a school teacher. I very much doubt that he has a musical degree. His technical knowledge seems rather limited.

May God help his students  :P


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: BigEdLB on June 23, 2017, 08:51:10 pm
The Thread about me on Unsung Composers (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php?topic=2523.0)


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: dhibbard on June 23, 2017, 09:03:11 pm
I don't go there anymore... when Mr Howe deleted my posts.... why bother... not going to play that childish game.


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: dhibbard on June 23, 2017, 09:13:39 pm
The Thread about me on Unsung Composers (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php?topic=2523.0)

Mr Ed.. we won't censor your posts... someone should start another Unsung Composers Ver2  oh.. it is here!!   welcome to this forum !!.... 


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: BigEdLB on June 23, 2017, 09:18:46 pm
Thank you


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: ahinton on June 23, 2017, 09:29:14 pm
Thank you
That site does indeed behave most peculiarly; I'd give it a wide berth if I were you. I remain a member of it but have nether contributed to it nor even read others' contributions to it in a long time now, precisely because of this strange conduct.


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: BigEdLB on June 23, 2017, 09:38:47 pm
I lurk occasionally, but don't participate


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: Latvian on August 10, 2017, 12:21:50 am
A couple of years ago, I had the temerity to mention Skalkottas in passing in the context of a larger discussion. I was immediately informed that any discussion of Skalkottas was forbidden. When I made a sarcastic response about censorship, the response was "there's no censorship here." I've posted nothing since. Like others here, I retain my membership for the sake of the occasional interesting download.

A sad, sad place.


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: cilgwyn on August 10, 2017, 11:58:48 am
I note one of the posts by one of the moderators there, informing members that if they are unsure whether a piece of music meets their remit,they should pass it onto them so that (in their words) "the music in question can be sampled and (if) it accords with our guidelines, then it is a legitimate subject for debate here"!! In a thread releating to the Cpo release of Louis Glass' Symphony No 5 & Fantasie op 47,it's suitability is weighed in the balance.......being,"written in 1920.. which is clearly outside the barrier of 1918"! In a following post this inoffensive symphony by Louis Glass gets the all clear! "Yes,but it's also clearly written in a romantic style. So, no problem". Thank goodness for that,then!! ;D I wonder if his Sixth symphony will meet their "remit",when Cpo get to it (and hopefully,they will!)?!

It's like something out of Monty Python!! ??? ;D


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: Dundonnell on August 10, 2017, 01:21:24 pm
I have my own views on this subject; the product of bitter personal experience. Those views (and indeed that experience) have been recounted here too many times. They would bore, although just possibly appall
those who have not heard me before.

What genuinely puzzles me however is that so many people, including those who have been members "over there" for some considerable time still seem surprised at the "eccentricities" of the owners. Surely by now it is reasonably clear what sort of site they wish to run? Although I certainly do not support censorship I wonder why we continue to waste our time giving them any publicity- good or bad?

I have never denied the people who own the site to exercise their rights in the choice of music they wish to see discussed. That choice may appear bizarre or inconsistent or ludicrous (depending on your point of view). What I cannot accept, what was and is unforgivable and what still hurts me deeply everytime I am forced to think about them is the utterly contemptible way they treated those members who they decided were "unsuitable". And those members included our own Albion (John) who worked tirelessly in setting up our own British Music Archive- one of the most significant collections in existence. No doubt most of my own composer catalogues (hundreds of them) are still archived on their site.

Unlike others here I cannot take any "advantage" of membership since I am banned for life. My contributions to the Art Music Forum are no different in subject, content or mode of expression. If any of you think that makes me "unsuitable" or "undesirable" as a member then please let me know (with reasons).

This is the LAST time I shall say anything about UC! If I break that promise please remind me and tell me to shut up!!


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: cilgwyn on August 10, 2017, 01:57:19 pm
I note one of the posts by one of the moderators there, informing members that if they are unsure whether a piece of music meets their remit,they should pass it onto them so that (in their words) "the music in question can be sampled and (if) it accords with our guidelines, then it is a legitimate subject for debate here"!! In a thread releating to the Cpo release of Louis Glass' Symphony No 5 & Fantasie op 47,it's suitability is weighed in the balance.......being,"written in 1920.. which is clearly outside the barrier of 1918"! In a following post this inoffensive symphony by Louis Glass gets the all clear! "Yes,but it's also clearly written in a romantic style. So, no problem". Thank goodness for that,then!! ;D I wonder if his Sixth symphony will meet their "remit",when Cpo get to it (and hopefully,they will!)?!

It's like something out of Monty Python!! ??? ;D
What they do or say doesn't bother me,particularly.After all,it's their forum! It's just interesting behaviour. It reminds me a bit of that psychiatrist at the end of a certain episode of Fawlty Towers. "There's enough material here for an entire case conference!" I'm not suggesting anything,I should point out! ;D On a more positive angle;they've obviously done allot of sterling work on behalf of Raff;and some of the posts,that meet "their remit";are very interesting indeed. They also like allot of music by Spohr,Rubinsten,and the,aforementioned,Raff!! :) I don't really understand how they could possibly fall out with someone so genial,good humoured and diplomatic as Dundonnell,though?!


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: Neil McGowan on August 10, 2017, 03:05:16 pm

It's like something out of Monty Python!! ???

I find the entrenched fanaticism of UC woefully unamusing, sadly.  However, it is far from the only classical music forum on the internet to embrace tub-thumping bigotry - and at least it restricts its mind-boggling twaddle to opinions within the sphere of music that do not break the law.  There are other sites which regularly publish tosh that's not only deleterious, but very possible actionable in law. One such site has a (non-humorous) online poll (which is, I believe, still open) as to whether Maria Callas was "the wailing banshee of Hades"; another site boots-off members who fail to post fawning praise of every performance of Gustavo Dudamel (since they are, it seems, vicious heel-clicking racist fascists); a very well-known site run by a former BBC broadcaster, aided and abetted by the so-called critic David Nice - which ambushes the reputations of Russian opera performers (such as an obituary, published on the day of the death of a legendary mezzo-soprano - which called her 'a talentless and vile-tempered imposter' - of a lady whose Will left a substantial bursary to nurture young performers...) - and also lobbied to have a Russian singer spiked from a Bayreuth cast, on the basis of empty tittle-tattle; not to mention another site which has largely abandoned musical discussion in favour of word puzzles.

I certainly don't like UC, and never use it.  But frankly it is mild compared to those found running and participating in other sites :-((((



Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: ahinton on August 10, 2017, 05:38:56 pm
I note one of the posts by one of the moderators there, informing members that if they are unsure whether a piece of music meets their remit,they should pass it onto them so that (in their words) "the music in question can be sampled and (if) it accords with our guidelines, then it is a legitimate subject for debate here"!! In a thread releating to the Cpo release of Louis Glass' Symphony No 5 & Fantasie op 47,it's suitability is weighed in the balance.......being,"written in 1920.. which is clearly outside the barrier of 1918"! In a following post this inoffensive symphony by Louis Glass gets the all clear! "Yes,but it's also clearly written in a romantic style. So, no problem". Thank goodness for that,then!! ;D I wonder if his Sixth symphony will meet their "remit",when Cpo get to it (and hopefully,they will!)?!

It's like something out of Monty Python!! ??? ;D
It isn't. Monty Python was funny. It sported a Ministry of Silly Walks whereas the best up with which Unsnug Con-poseurs can come is a Ministry of Silly Talks.


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: cilgwyn on August 10, 2017, 07:07:35 pm
Oh dear,I didn't mean that to be taken literally! ??? ::) I was merely alluding to the surreal nature of their decision making process over whether a particular composition,or composer,meets their "remit"! It really does strike me,as being like,something out of a wierd comedy sketch! That doesn't mean that I actually find the people who run that forum,or post there particularly funny. Not after the way they treated Dundonnell,anyway! I might add,that I don't actually find Monty Python very funny,either;but that's beside the point!

Oh,well! We're all one,big,happy family here! :)


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: cilgwyn on August 10, 2017, 07:43:03 pm
The Ministry of Silly Talks,though? I like that!! ;D


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: dhibbard on August 10, 2017, 08:34:12 pm
yes.. already chastised about the "1918 Rule"   ... if the composition was written after 1918, then we don't want any threads about it, unless "we" determine that the style is romantic.   The term "we" are certain moderators that will exclusively determine if the composition is romantic.    How silly.


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: ahinton on August 10, 2017, 09:23:22 pm
yes.. already chastised about the "1918 Rule"   ... if the composition was written after 1918, then we don't want any threads about it, unless "we" determine that the style is romantic.   The term "we" are certain moderators that will exclusively determine if the composition is romantic.    How silly.
Indeed; is it, for example, my fault that I was born so very long after 1918?...


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: BigEdLB on September 05, 2017, 08:08:17 am
yes.. already chastised about the "1918 Rule"   ... if the composition was written after 1918, then we don't want any threads about it, unless "we" determine that the style is romantic.   The term "we" are certain moderators that will exclusively determine if the composition is romantic.    How silly.

Obviously in invoking of the royal "we",  in anticipation of Will & Kate's #3 to be born early next year...


Title: Re: Truly Bizarre behavior at Unsung Composers
Post by: ahinton on September 05, 2017, 09:12:58 am
yes.. already chastised about the "1918 Rule"   ... if the composition was written after 1918, then we don't want any threads about it, unless "we" determine that the style is romantic.   The term "we" are certain moderators that will exclusively determine if the composition is romantic.    How silly.

Obviously in invoking of the royal "we",  in anticipation of Will & Kate's #3 to be born early next year...
Oh, I don't think so (not that it would be remotely excusable if it were so). Prince William and his wife's forthcoming third child has no conceivable (sorry!) connection with the bizarre antics at UC, including the immoderate conduct of its "moderators". What's sadly long since been cast into oblivion there is the name of the forum; "unsung" means "unsung", not "post-whenever pre-1918 Romantic-if-"we"-decide-that-it-is".