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From Alex Ross's blog:

http://www.therestisnoise.com/2015/01/nine-symphonies.html (http://www.therestisnoise.com/2015/01/nine-symphonies.html)

The Los Angeles blogger CK Dexter Haven has devised an amusing game: pick your favorite numbered symphonies, one through nine. Brian Lauritzen has added his own entry, and there are sure to be others. I have decided to make the bold choice of omitting Beethoven — he gets enough attention — and am offering this mildly eccentric list:

Nielsen, Symphony No. 1

Ives, Symphony No. 2

Lutosławski, Symphony No. 3

Brahms, Symphony No. 4

Ustvolskaya, Symphony No. 5

Vaughan Williams, Symphony No. 6

Sibelius, Symphony No. 7

Schubert, Symphony No. 8

Mahler, Symphony No. 9

http://brianlauritzen.com/2015/01/05/number-9-number-9-number-9-a-symphonic-revolution/ (http://brianlauritzen.com/2015/01/05/number-9-number-9-number-9-a-symphonic-revolution/)

http://allisyar.com/2015/01/05/choosing-nine-symphonies-a-puzzlechallengegame-of-sorts/ (http://allisyar.com/2015/01/05/choosing-nine-symphonies-a-puzzlechallengegame-of-sorts/)

1.   Shapero Symphony for Classical Orchestra (No. 1)
2.   Stenhammar Symphony No. 2
3.   Bax Symphony No. 3  
4.   Kokkonen Symphony No. 4
5.   Shostakovich Symphony No. 5
6.   Prokofiev Symphony No. 6
7.   Sibelius Symphony No. 7
8.   Bruckner Symphony No. 8
9.   Vaughan Williams Symphony No. 9

1. Saygun 1
2. Grace Williams 2
3. David Diamond 3
4. Sibelius 4
5. Nielsen 5
6. Bruckner 6
7. Holmboe 7
8. Havergal Brian 8
9. Robert Simpson 9

Great to see Grace Williams 2 and VW 9 on there. Mmm...

Brian no. 1 The Gothic
Elgar no. 2
Bate no. 3
Vaughan Williams no. 4
George Lloyd no. 5
Stanford no. 6
Mahler no. 7
Dvorak no. 8
Rubbra no. 9


Some of those could have been swapped around (the same composers other things, but I assume you should only use each composer once.

This is difficult, because on some numbers (3 & 4 especially) there is a pile-up of contenders. Fairly quickly, my list would be:

1. Walton
2. Jaroch
3. Bax
4. Vaughan Williams
5. Rubbra
6. Martinu (assuming you allow this to be his 6th symphony, and not the Fantasies Symphonique)
7. Mahler
8. Holmboe
9. Bruckner

Some overlaps there with previous lists ... I'm sorry I can't fit in Nielsen 5, but Rubbra 5 is a must. Also sorry to leave out Atterberg 3.

I see that we have some fans of Mahler 7! I have always felt that is his most underrated work.

This is a really tough one. If I do this again every few couple weeks, my top choices will likely change every time. However, at this moment in time, here they are:

1. Havergal Brian
2. Isa Krejci
3. Alberic Magnard
4. Janis Ivanovs
5. Arthur Honegger
6. Stjepan Sulek
7. Allan Pettersson
8. Vagn Holmboe
9. Ludwig van Beethoven

1. Vaughan Williams
2. Mahler
3. Beethoven
4. Shostakovich
5. Raff
6. Sibelius
7. Bruckner
8. Dvorak
9. Rubbra

1.Sgambati
2.d'Indy
3.Berwald
4.Magnard
5.Vaughan Williams
6.Prokofiev
7.Beethoven
8.Sciostakovich
9.Mahler

1. Eduard Tubin
2. Hilding Rosenberg
3. Peter Racine Fricker
4. Joonas Kokkonen
5. Carl Nielsen
6. Arnold Bax
7. Edmund Rubbra
8. George Lloyd
9. Robert Simpson
10. Havergal Brian
11. Allan Pettersson oops....

1 - Arnold Bax
2 - Michael Tippett
3 - Robert Schumann
4 - Ralph Vaughan Williams
5 - Gustav Mahler
6 - Alexander Glazunov
7 - Ludwig van Beethoven
8 - Anton Bruckner
9 - Robert Simpson

what a * !!!!

Indeed! How can you choose just one?! I've deleted my list! >:(

Errr, it's only a game ;)  No-one is suggesting that we bin the symphonies which don't make it onto lists )))

In fact I loathe lists usually, and I only participated out of a sense of Xmas fun  (since it was still Russian Christmas, Jan 7th & 8th, when I posted).

my alternative entries, depending on which rules apply, on depending which side of bed I get out of that day...

1 - Shostakovich
2 - Shostakovich
3 - Shostakovich
4 - Shostakovich
6 - Shostakovich
8 - Shostakovich
10- Shostakovch
11- Shostakovich
15- Shostakovich

OR

1 - Tchaikovsky
2 - Tchaikovsky
3- Tchaikovsky
4 - Tchaikovsky
5 - Tchaikovsky
6 - Tchaikovsky
7, 8, 9 -  no takers

 ;D

 ;D I know it's just choosing between Dvorak and Beethoven's Ninth?
Just an example! ::) ;D

Ooh, someone else likes Krejci #2! I have a scratchy old LP of it bought in the 70s, and it was a long while before I heard another note of his music. And we both like Holmboe 8.

But Pettersson 7? Oom pa pa pa. <diddly bits> Oom pa pa pa.

Oom pa pa pa.

Oom pa pa pa.

Etc.

I'm with Latvian, Pettersson 7 is a decent symphony.

1. Einar Englund
2. Henri Dutilleux
3. Per Norgard
4. Kalevi Aho
5. Eduard Tubin
6. Aulis Sallinen
7. Allan Pettersson
8. Vagn Holmboe
9. Harald Saeverud

This is one of these things I would probably answer differently today than yesterday or tomorrow:

1. Sibelius
2. Lars Erik Larsson (1)
3. Nielsen
4. William Alwyn (2)
5. Tishchenko
6. Imants Kalnins
7. Beethoven (3)
8. Shostakovich
9. Mahler

(1) Arguably this could/should have been Brahms, but I gave the nod to Larsson as the underdog.

(2) Ditto Tchaikovsky's fourth, although this would have been much closer as I really, really love the Alwyn no 4.

(3) Like some other commentators I tried to leave Beethoven out because, well, he's Beethoven, but Beethoven 7 is so far and away my favourite seventh that I just couldn't do it.  Runners up/also rans would include Dvorak, Sibelius, and/or Mahler.

Since I am a skipper, the odds of me being on a desert island is much more likely.

Mine:

1. Rachmaninoff
2. Mahler
3. Prokofiev
4. Bruckner
5. Vaughan Williams
6. Tchaikovsky
7. Sibelius
8. Shostakovitch
9. Mahler

If I am unfortunate enough to land on a second desert isle:

1. Havergal Brian
2. Vaughan Williams
3. Mahler
4. Shostakovitch
5. Shostakovitch
6. Mahler
7. Shostakovitch
8. Mahler "Symphony of a Thousand"
9. Bruckner

a third unfortunate desert isle?

1. Vaughan Williams
2. Rachmaninoff
3. Mahler
4. Brahms
5. Prokofiev
6. Myaskovsky
7. Beethoven
8. Bruckner
9. Bourgeois (his 9th is magnificent and includes a 45 minute long passacaglia and deserves to be ranked)

Conclusion: a lot of Russian and Germans!

This game is interesting in several ways.

Firstly, in seeing what unexpected choices some people make. For instance, given all the wonderful third symphonies around, when someone picks Stanley Bate for this slot, it intrigues, and I scurry to my CD collection to re-aquaint myself with Bate's music to see why it might make such a personal impact.

Then it is interesting to see what doesn't make anyone's list. Brahms is largely missing, Schumann and Schubert totally so. Sibelius is only considered for the number 7 slot - no-one picks him for numbers 2, 3 or 5. Americans are missing entirely ...

Harold Shapero was an American.  ;)

Also, calyptorhynchus has David Diamond 3.

I did consider Brahms, Sibelius and Schubert: in Brahms' case I'd breezed through to no. 5 before I thought of the fact I'd left him out: in Schubert's case no. 9 would have been the only possibility. Not quite sure why Sibelius missed out: guess he was like one of those political parties that comes second a lot and so gets no seats in parliament.

Missed those - but no Copland or Harris. At least there is only one contender for the 5 1/2 spot!

well they are in the background. I rate Gardner Read's 4th very highly (strangely removed from you tube, as has all Zaswer1 stuff but I digress...)and could have chosen it. Porter 1, Rochberg 2 , Imbrie 3, Piston 5 er.. and Rochberg 5, Hovhaness 6, Persichetti 7(love Diamond and Sessions 6 & 7 too), Siegmeister 8 and Persichetti/Schumann 9.
Copland and Harris are fine, but not in my frame for this exercise!

sorry, I meant Schuman!!!!!

Perhaps another version of the game would be to list your runners-up for each position - and others have to guess who you finally intend to nominate?

I agonised between at least five contenders for the Symphony No 2 position, for example!  And I'm still not sure I got my own intentions right? ;)

The 'earlier' numbers are more interesting - because few composers hit their 'mature' style so early in their career?  As mentioned above, I would happily list all of Tchaikovsky's symphonies!  But for all my love of the rest of them, especially No 4, the gentle charm and beautiful orchestration of No 1 is something he never managed again later...  due, I feel, to the incessant antagonism of the 'Mighty Handful' to write more pompous and patriotic music? (See the whole debacle concerning his withdrawal of THE OPRICHNIK for more salient details).

No Sessions, then?

To rate just American symphonies.....
Barber 1st
Piston 2nd
Copland 3rd
Diamond 4th
Mennin 5th
Schuman 6th
Harris 7th
Sessions 8th
Mennin 9th
Schuman 10th

I think the rule was not to use the same composer twice? Otherwise I might have had Bruckner for #7.

I probably mentioned before my friend who amassed a collection of third symphonies, on the grounds that it took most composers three to get into their stride, and some tailed off (or stopped) after number three.

1.Roussel
2.Rimsky Korsakov
3. Brian
4.Beethoven
5.Vaughan Williams
6.Arnold
7.Sibelius
8.Daniel Jones
9.Dvorak

1.Brahms
2.Bax
3. Parry
4. Mahler
5.Spohr
6.Martinu
7.Beethoven
8.Tournemire
9.Vaughan Williams

1.Bax
2.Grant Still
3.Franz Schmidt
4.Honegger
5.Mahler
6.Piston
7.Vaughan Williams
8.Dvorak
9.Beethoven

Awful having to choose from so many symphonies by composers I like,and by choosing only by each having to miss out ones I particularly like. I'll need another go to fit in Mennin,Schuman,Piston,Tchaikovsky,Mathias,Barber,amongst others! :( It does force you to think,though! The Rimsky Korsakov is more of a suite,I know;but it's pure escapist gold!! And Grant Still instead of Piston 2? But the Grant Still is a lovely,soulful underrated work and I wanted to fit it in. I could go on;but luckily for you I won't! ;D And the Moeran symphony? A big favourite here!!

Too many I fear? I'm breaking the rules!! :(

It's why I dislike lists :))  Except for a very few intellectually-limited individuals, our minds don't function like that. We are constantly developing and reconsidering our ideas. 

For example, right at the moment I would be very ready to pop Dvorak #5 in at the No 5 spot.  But then I'd have two Dvoraks?  So I'd have to replace the other...  and in fact the whole "list" gets rewritten as a result :)) 

And the reluctance to exclude composers I get allot of pleasure from! So where can I fit Spohr? He's not a particularly deep composer,but I think his orchestration (at it's best) is gorgeous. No's 7 & 8 I find athletic and bracing,they cheer me up! But now I've got to leave Beethoven out! Spohr instead of Beethoven? He would have been up there himself once,of course! And late last night I started listening through Mahler's symphonies again. I really do like Roussel's No1.But instead of Mahler !?!! I like both,but........!!!!!
Tournemire got in mainly because I was struggling to come up with another no 8! For some reason,apart from the Dvorak and Daniel Jones,I don't really have any real favourites with that number. I do like the Vaughan Williams,but I don't think it's the most consistent of the cycle,although it has some very striking ideas. I bought the Haitink recording of 8 & 9 recently,which may change my mind?! The Tournemire is  consistent in it's invention,however,so in it went! Rather impressive. Strange music! His Seventh is seriously wierd,but I'm not sure if it hangs together. His Sixth is imho a knockout! But then I'd have to boot out Arnold and Piston! Confession time! I don't play the Tournemire that much to really justify including it! A job for Timpani,though! (Although as far as I can make out they're uninterested. I hope I'm wrong!)

But having to leave out Mahler 2,3 & 6!!! All the other Beethoven symphonies! Bax's third and fifth?! And then there are lesser symphonies that seem to suddenly grab you for some apparent reason,justified or not,and become a sort of 'flavour of the month'! I recently got hold of a s/h musicassette of George Lloyd's Seventh,which has been the subject of some discussion at the GMG,recently. Not sure if I'd want to dump Sibelius,Beethoven or VW in favour of George Lloyd (or that I should?!) but I DO rather like this one at the moment!

No Don Gillis symphonies I'm afraid!! ;D

I was also tempted to include a Rued Langgaard! No 9 "From Queen Dagmar's City",believe it or not?! I think this is an absolute peach of a symphony. Although it's more of a suite. If it hadn't been for Dvorak,Beethoven and VW it might actually have got in! Funny how such a screwed up miserable man could produce music as lovely,happy and carefree as this. No 3 is another example. His escape from a personal hell,I suppose?!

I bought the BIS Tubin and Holmboe cycle a few months ago,but I haven't yet got to the stage where I would feel I have to include one. Maybe No 2,which I have known (along with No 6) for years,via a still functional 25 year old cassette tape!


I wonder what Dundonnell and kyjo would have chosen?!!
 

Thanks for reminding us of Spohr!  And I'm not sure that he lacks depth?  Symphony No 7, "The Earthly & The Divine In Human Life" has depth a-plenty!  As does his oratorio "Die Letze Dinge" (although we aren't officially talking about non-symphonic works here!).

It was his personal misfortune to be Beethoven's contemporary. His reputation has disappeared in Beethoven's shadow - putting him in the same category as Hummel and Simon Mayr, to name just two.

I meant in comparison to Beethoven! But Spohr is just different. I think he is a very satisfying composer to listen to. His chamber music is wonderful. I can listen to his music for hours. If there wasn't any depth I'd probably  want to switch off,wouldn't I?! ;D

I really would have liked to include his Seventh in that list! :( Maybe I had to opt for Beethoven and Sibelius instead;but surely I could have swapped VW's spectacular with all those penguins,wind machines and that thrilling glacier for Spohr?!! ::)

Erm,maybe.....maybe not?!! ;D 

Sinfonietta - Hindemith (Lustige)
1 - Brahms / Messiaen (Turangalîla)
2 - Schumann / Tippett
3 - Carter (Symphonia) / Stravinsky (in C) / Berwald (Singulière) / Myaskovsky / Gerhard
4 - Sibelius / Ives / Lutosławski
5 - Ustvolskaya / Dvořák
6 - Nielsen
7 - Nørgård
8 - Schubert (the C Monster, not the Unfinished)
9 - Beethoven
13 - Holmboe
14 - Shostakovich
39 - Mozart
84 - Haydn

assuming each composer can only be used once.

Alternative list:

Dvořák 1-9

Ah, yes, I guess with Schubert, Dvorak and Brian one can choose alternative numberings, so have the Great C major as the 7th or 8th (which is apparently considered to be in many continental countries), rather than the 9th (as the UK has it). Brian 1-6 can be read two ways too. I'm sure there are other composers this applies to

A big thumbs-up to Berwald 3. What a great and original piece. I first learned it as a classical music aficionado in my teens in the Seventies, when I owned the old Nonesuch LP of Berwald 1 and 3 conducted by Hans Schmidt-Isserstedt (and in fact still do own it, but it's in storage because I'm abroad). It amazes me that the Berwald symphonies have not made greater inroads into the "standard repertory," given that they deserve live performance at the same frequency as the Schumann symphonies. But that's the biz for you - not very enterprising.

I like your list in general - I'm also a big fan of Prokofiev 6 (really all of Prokofiev's symphonies).

You could include Don Gills Symphony 5 1/2...

Beat you to it ...

With games like this, rules were made to be broken. Those are three fine lists, cilgwyn! They illustrate the incredible richness we have to choose from in art music. I'll have to look into Daniel Jones and Tournemire, neither of whom I know except by name.

Choosing a Second appears to be the hardest, since I cannot think of too many great Seconds, for some reason. From 5 or 6 on it's getting easier, because there's less competition. Especially from about No. 32 on things tend to go smoother. :-). A first attempt (well, let's make two, with only my favourite composer appearing twice):

Brian 1
Vermeulen 2
Bate 3
Braga Santos 4
Nielsen 5
Tubin 6
Kinsella 7
Holmboe 8
Vaughan Williams 9

Goossens 1
Orthel 2
Guarnieri 3
Honegger 4
Arnold 5
Vaughan Williams 6
Mahler 7
Shostakovich 8
Simpson 9

My favourite Symphony n.0 is Bruckner (even if actually it was his third).
My favourite Symphony n.00 is again Bruckner's.

Off the top of my head

1 - Brian
2 - Vermeulen/Prokofiev
3 - Szymanowski
4 - Ives
5 - Honegger
6 - Mahler
7 - Beethoven
8 -
9 - Vaughan Williams



ters

Nothing wrong with the top of your head! Great choices.  :)

I should start with the Marco Polo cd of 3 & 8 if you do. I think they are marvelous symphonies. The performances are reasonably good by the standards of the series,which were generally pretty dire;although not as bad as the Plovdiv Louis Glass thank goodness!! There are superior performances on the Auvidis Valois label,but they may be expensive? (Phew! Just looked on Amazon.Yes,they are!!) Start with the Marco Polo 3 & 8,I would!
As to Don Gillis. I don't want to appear snooty! I actually think the Star Spangled Symphony and the Dance Symphony with it's 'juke box rhythms are great fun when I'm in the right mood!

A cycle of your favourite symphonic cycles, would'n that solve some of the scarcity problem? My own cycle of cycles would have to choose between:

1. Ludvig Irgens Jensen / Arthur Benjamin / Alf Hurum / Zoltán Kodály  (= my favourite composers of one symphony only)
2. Eugene Goossens / Samuel Barber / Ernest John Moeran / Arthur Bliss / Henri Dutilleux / William Walton (= composers of two symphonies, &c.)
3. Levi Madetoja / Douglas Lilburn / Alan Rawsthorne / Igor Stravinsky / Reinhold Glière / Cecil Armstrong Gibbs / Willem Pijper / Pēteris Vasks / Henryk Górecki
4. Lennox Berkeley / Hendrik Andriessen / Stanley Bate / Franz Schmidt / Michael Tippett / Karol Szymanowski / Witold Lutosławski / Albert Roussel / Kaljo Raid
5. Arthur Honegger / Herman Koppel / Ruth Gipps / Ahmet Adnan Saygun / William Alwyn / William Grant Still / Joonas Kokkonen / Osvaldas Balakauskas / Camille Saint-Saëns
6. Joly Braga Santos / Carl Nielsen / Arnold Cooke / Léon Orthel / Erkki Melartin / Bohuslav Martinů / Gösta Nystroem / Lepo Sumera
7. Camargo Guarnieri / Richard Arnell / Matthijs Vermeulen / Pyotr Ilich Tchaikovsky / Johan Willem Wilms
8. Einar Englund / Aulis Sallinen / Hilding Rosenberg / Einojuhani Rautavaara / Walter Piston / Benjamin Frankel / Charles Tournemire
9. Ralph Vaughan Willams / Malcolm Arnold / Ludwig van Beethoven / Harald Sæverud / Kurt Atterberg / Antonín Dvořák / Peter Mennin

10. Eduard Tubin / John Kinsella / Gustav Mahler / William Schuman /  Andrzej Panufnik / Alun Hoddinott
11. Edmund Rubbra / Anton Bruckner / Robert Simpson / David Diamond
12. Heitor Villa-Lobos / Alexander Moyzes / Wilfred Josephs
13. Vagn Holmboe
14. Cláudio Santoro
15. Dmitri Shostakovich / Arthur Meulemans / Henk Badings / Kalevi Aho
16. Rued Langgaard
17. Alan Petterson
20. Mieczyslaw Weinberg
21. Jānis Ivanovs
24. Julius Röntgen
27. Nikolai Myaskovsky
32. Havergal Brian
41. Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
67. Alan Hovhaness
95. Derek Bourgeois
106. Joseph Haydn
285. Leif Segerstam

@Christo:

I can't remember having ever seen a recording of Camargo Guarnieri's 7th (but have noticed that it seems to exist).
Could you tell me some more details about it?

Correct: AFAIK it has never been recorded. My list is about complete cycles, not individual symphonies. And I admire the other six.

I'm not sure that one should count unnumbered symphonies in cycles. Would you allow a cycle by Stravinsky, for instance? It is safe to say that Bruckner wrote nine symphonies plus two outside the cycle. There are other composers who have juvenilia usually not counted, also.

I would also be inclined to discount composers who just attach the title "symphony" to any old piece, whether it resembles a symphony or not.

How about being allowed to do 1-9 and then one unnumbered one. There's the Manfred Symphony, any of Britten's, Arnold's Toy/Strings/Brass ones, Brian's Fantastic (though I don't think you could have that as only part survives)...

Or Liszt's "Symphony To Dante's Divine Comedy". Perhaps only Liszt would really recognise it as a 'symphony'? 
But what a fine work it is, in its own peculiar way :)  Anticipates PARSIFAL by nearly 40 years - and of course it was dedicated to Wagner, and Liszt even played the sketches to Der Meister.

Elgar 1
Rachmaninoff 2
Saint-Saens 3
Braga Santos 4
Atterberg 5
Vaughan Williams 6
Sibelius 7
Dvorak 8
Mahler 9
Shostakovich 10

...and an alternate list, 'cause why not?:

Martinu 1
Hanson 2
Honegger 3
Schmidt 4
Arnold 5
Bax 6
Beethoven 7
Glazunov 8
Bruckner 9
Holmboe 10

It really pained me to leave out Brahms and Nielsen (amongst others), but the competition is just too stiff :(

I just discovered this forum, so here goes:
Only - Von Hausegger (disregarding Barbarossa, which really should be termed a symphony as well. But allow me this loophole please).

1 - Furtwängler or
2 - Weingartner
3 - Langgaard
4 - Braga Santos
5 - Sibelius (the 1915 version)
6 - Tournemire
7 - Hamerik
8 - Rautavaara
9 - Von Klenau
10 - None
11 - Raff

Great cycle! We seem to be sharing an admiration for the Hausegger, Braga Santos, Tournemire, and perhaps Klenau 9 (just bought it, not sure yet). As for a No. 10: why not Shostakovich, Holmboe, Tubin, Rubbra, Badings, Brian?  ::) :D

Thank you. If you'd really press me I'd nominate, Holmboe's 10th, but I like none of them. Brian and Bading are just not my thing, Shostakovich I actively dislike, and Rubbra I don't know yet but I WILL give it a go.

Welcome to the forum, Ilja! :) Interesting list, and great to see another lover of the great Braga Santos 4th!