The Art-Music, Literature and Linguistics Forum

MEMBERS' CORNER => Members' own compositions, performances & productions => Topic started by: Ian Moore on October 09, 2014, 09:16:37 pm



Title: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: Ian Moore on October 09, 2014, 09:16:37 pm
This is my first piece of modern music written as a student at Goldsmiths College. Can you spot the influences?

http://youtu.be/k8LzpYAF6rY


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: Ian Moore on October 11, 2014, 09:51:37 pm
Isn't anyone going to have a guess?


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: Gauk on October 13, 2014, 08:31:33 am
Bax, I would say, at least in the opening. But you really should get a better recording guy who knows how to handle microphones - the sound on that is awful.

I am intrigued by it being your "first piece of modern music" - are we to understand you have been writing lots of ancient music?


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: ahinton on October 13, 2014, 10:08:04 am
The ones that you mention in your informtion on the piece, although I'd not read this until aftr listening to it; Varèse in particular.


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: autoharp on October 13, 2014, 12:33:58 pm
Octandre and Octandre.


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: ahinton on October 13, 2014, 12:43:04 pm
Octandre and Octandre.
Well, the instrumentation gives that away in both cases, of course, but it's not just that...

That said, I am also somewhat concerned about the notion of this (or indeed anything else, for that matter) being anyone's "first piece of modern music"; whatever volte-face of style and manner Amériques might have represented (something which, with nothing before it apparently surviving other than the isolated Un grand sommeil d'amour from some 15 years earlier, I guess we'll never know), I can hardly imagine that Varèse would so have described his piece from the early 1920s; the orchestral Bourgogne (dating as it did from the year after that early song) did at least receive a performance (in Berlin in 1910) which apparently caused something of a riot along the lines of the more famous ones that attended Le Sacre and certain works of Schönberg yet, as http://atuneadayblogdotcom.wordpress.com/2013/08/28/edgar-varese-bourgogne-1907/ reveals, Richard Strauss and Hugo von Hoffmansthal were among those who helped to support that performance taking place and Debussy and Busoni had cordial exchanges with the composer (I've often wondered what Strauss in later life might have made of what Varèse wrote from Amériques onwards).


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: Ian Moore on October 13, 2014, 10:15:21 pm
There are several influences...Varese is the most obvious but what about the others? Not Bax, though. I have never been influenced by a composer from the English school.


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: Ian Moore on October 14, 2014, 06:18:49 am
The English nationalist school I meant to say.

Do you need a clue?


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: Ian Moore on October 14, 2014, 06:25:50 am
Quote
But you really should get a better recording guy who knows how to handle microphones - the sound on that is awful.

Gauk, I made this comment about the work...

"Unfortunately, the recording is quite old. The tape is worn and, despite my best efforts, some of the loud passages are distorted (by modern standards). There are also a few errors which I hope do not spoil your enjoyment. "

Also, I say 'modern' because it is not my first work. It is the first work written for people who like modern music.


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: ahinton on October 14, 2014, 08:04:27 am
Also, I say 'modern' because it is not my first work. It is the first work written for people who like modern music.
Why does the fact of it not being your first work make it "modern"? And what is "modern music" anyway? Surely not Varèse, whose Octandre is not far short of a century old? And why was it written (by implication, at least) for people who like "modern music" and not for others?


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: autoharp on October 14, 2014, 08:13:28 am
Do you need a clue?

No.


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: Gauk on October 14, 2014, 08:15:53 am
Quote
But you really should get a better recording guy who knows how to handle microphones - the sound on that is awful.

Gauk, I made this comment about the work...

"Unfortunately, the recording is quite old. The tape is worn and, despite my best efforts, some of the loud passages are distorted (by modern standards). There are also a few errors which I hope do not spoil your enjoyment. "

I don't see that comment anywhere in the thread.


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: Expi on October 14, 2014, 09:14:29 am
 :-\


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: ahinton on October 14, 2014, 10:15:45 am
Quote
But you really should get a better recording guy who knows how to handle microphones - the sound on that is awful.

Gauk, I made this comment about the work...

"Unfortunately, the recording is quite old. The tape is worn and, despite my best efforts, some of the loud passages are distorted (by modern standards). There are also a few errors which I hope do not spoil your enjoyment. "

I don't see that comment anywhere in the thread.
That's because it isn't in the thread itself but tucked away in the information which you can obtain by clicking the "i" button at the top right of the video itself.


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: Gauk on October 15, 2014, 11:26:19 am
Quote
But you really should get a better recording guy who knows how to handle microphones - the sound on that is awful.

Gauk, I made this comment about the work...

"Unfortunately, the recording is quite old. The tape is worn and, despite my best efforts, some of the loud passages are distorted (by modern standards). There are also a few errors which I hope do not spoil your enjoyment. "

I don't see that comment anywhere in the thread.
That's because it isn't in the thread itself but tucked away in the information which you can obtain by clicking the "i" button at the top right of the video itself.

As if it's likely that anyone will bother with that ...


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: ahinton on October 15, 2014, 01:49:30 pm
Quote
But you really should get a better recording guy who knows how to handle microphones - the sound on that is awful.

Gauk, I made this comment about the work...

"Unfortunately, the recording is quite old. The tape is worn and, despite my best efforts, some of the loud passages are distorted (by modern standards). There are also a few errors which I hope do not spoil your enjoyment. "

I don't see that comment anywhere in the thread.
That's because it isn't in the thread itself but tucked away in the information which you can obtain by clicking the "i" button at the top right of the video itself.

As if it's likely that anyone will bother with that ...
Well, I did - and I was merely pointing out where I found it!


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: Ian Moore on October 18, 2014, 07:36:33 pm
Any more guesses? Do you need a clue?


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: Gauk on October 18, 2014, 11:02:24 pm
I have watched I don't know how many videos and I have never once clicked that "I" unless I know in advance there is some reason to do so.


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: Ian Moore on October 20, 2014, 10:13:08 pm
I'll assume you are talking to Ahinton.


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: ahinton on October 20, 2014, 10:19:18 pm
I'll assume you are talking to Ahinton.
Why's that then?


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: Ian Moore on October 20, 2014, 10:26:37 pm
I asked him if he wanted a clue and he started talking about not clicking on a certain part of the page so I assumed he was talking to you.


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: guest54 on October 21, 2014, 06:52:27 am
I'll assume you are talking to Ahinton.

Would members kindly note that there is - at least in theory - no singular "you" in this forum. Every contribution must be assumed to be addressed to the forum as a whole. If the word "you" appears it will be taken to be plural and to refer to "the membership" not any particular member. Private conversations with individuals may be conducted by clicking on "my messages" at the top of the page.


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: ahinton on October 21, 2014, 07:17:06 am
Would members kindly note that there is - at least in theory - no singular "you" in this forum. Every contribution must be assumed to be addressed to the forum as a whole. If the word "you" appears it will be taken to be plural and to refer to "the membership" not any particular member. Private conversations with individuals may be conducted by clicking on "my messages" at the top of the page.
Point taken, of course - but I see in member Gauk's posts #11, 14 & #17 no obvious reference to any individual, which is why in my own post #19 I queried member Ian Moore's post in which he appears to assume othedrwise; for the record and for the avoidance of doubt, I did not assume anyone to be addressing any single individual in particular rather than the readership as a whole. Member Ian Moore posted that he issued a caveat about the recording of his work, member Gauk had not seen it and, because I happened to have noticed its source as being accessible by clicking on the "i" for informtion on the video itself, I said so and member Gauk clearly felt that this was not the same as making a statement in a post, with which I would agree; I'm sure that this is not indicatiave of any conversation being carried on between individual members to the exclusion of others because I assume that those others would not have been expected to know where to find that information either.


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: Gauk on October 21, 2014, 01:02:56 pm
ahinton is correct, I was making a general statement. I assume that all posts are directed at all readers of the thread unless stated to the contrary.


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: Ian Moore on October 22, 2014, 08:59:56 pm
Sorry I misunderstood. I suppose no clues needed either.


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: Gauk on October 23, 2014, 12:22:37 pm
Frankly, I find this whole thread a bit strange. I would normally expect any creative artist to want to emphasise what was original in their work rather than what was derivative.


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: ahinton on October 23, 2014, 12:46:47 pm
Frankly, I find this whole thread a bit strange. I would normally expect any creative artist to want to emphasise what was original in their work rather than what was derivative.
Fair comment, although influence is not necessarily synonymous with being derivative. However, writing as a composer myself, I find it strange for other reasons, not least because it has yet to be clarified (a) what is supposedly meant by a composer's "first piece of modern music" or indeed the significance of that meaning in relation to the invitation to spot the influence/s and (b) why a composer would seek specifically to consult forum members as to matters of influence in apparent preference to any other aspects or characteristics of the music itself.


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: Ian Moore on October 23, 2014, 06:04:14 pm
If you look at my other work, you hopefully you will find a lot of originality.  This is my first (student) work in a modern style.  As Ahinton suggests, I would have hoped that people find it interesting looking at where I started and how I got to where I am now. Borrowing ideas from Great composers, isn't a new or unique concept.  Didn't Picasso say,

Quote
I good artist borrows and great artist steals.

This thread is purely for historical reasons and a bit a of fun if I could anyone to guess the less obvious influences!

Gauk, I have tried my best to get people to comment on the quality and the impact of the music.  People like Ahinton kindly oblige but it is a never-ending battle.  I don't think you have commented; what do you think of it? (Obviously taking into account it was written many years ago as a young man). I am genuinely interested in your opinion.


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: Gauk on October 24, 2014, 10:16:13 am
If you look at my other work, you hopefully you will find a lot of originality.  This is my first (student) work in a modern style.  As Ahinton suggests, I would have hoped that people find it interesting looking at where I started and how I got to where I am now. Borrowing ideas from Great composers, isn't a new or unique concept.  Didn't Picasso say,

Quote
I good artist borrows and great artist steals.

This thread is purely for historical reasons and a bit a of fun if I could anyone to guess the less obvious influences!

Gauk, I have tried my best to get people to comment on the quality and the impact of the music.  People like Ahinton kindly oblige but it is a never-ending battle.  I don't think you have commented; what do you think of it? (Obviously taking into account it was written many years ago as a young man). I am genuinely interested in your opinion.

I think it was Eliot said that, but it is probably one of those quotes that is endlessly re-attributed.

Also, I was being what in another century would have been called "nice" about the word "derivative", meaning simply "derived from something".

About the work, well, I didn't comment mostly because I wasn't sure that you would welcome an honest opinion. Listening to it is not helped by the bad sound, either. I thought it very much a student work. It starts off nicely, then works out some ideas rather prosaically, and then stops abruptly. As a piece, I don't think it hangs together, and sounds very much like an exercise. If you started out with the artifical idea "I will write some music in a modern style" then I could expect this sort of result. Was it Holst who said that one should only write a piece of music if the strain of not writing it becomes unbearable? (The same applies, I strongly believe, to poetry).


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: ahinton on October 24, 2014, 01:13:14 pm
Didn't Picasso say,
Quote
I good artist borrows and great artist steals.

I think it was Eliot said that, but it is probably one of those quotes that is endlessly re-attributed.
Not least to Stravinsky, but then Stravinsky was himself the 20th century magpie par excellence anyway and so the fact of it being attributed to him seems rather like poetic justice to me!

Was it Holst who said that one should only write a piece of music if the strain of not writing it becomes unbearable?
It might have been but, again, this is yet another of those quotable quotes whose true origin has long since been shrouded in the mists of time, theft and misattribution; whoever it was knew of what he/she spoke, however!


Title: Re: My first piece of modern music.
Post by: Ian Moore on October 24, 2014, 08:51:49 pm
I could not take the work seriously now.  It is very much a student piece.  It was written by someone who I barely recognise.  It has a stuttering quality as you implied which I find quite charming (in a naive way). But, you are correct. I don't think it hangs together we'll enough.  What are all the gaps for?
I still find it interesting from a historical perspective. I was hoping that other people might take a similar interest.