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ARCHIVED TOPICS => Theory and tradition => Topic started by: Neil McGowan on February 04, 2012, 07:34:09 pm



Title: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: Neil McGowan on February 04, 2012, 07:34:09 pm
... I wonder if any members are familiar with this one?   :o

Lady Bumtickler's Revels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Bumtickler’s_Revels)

'Anne Nicole' pales by comparison...


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: guest2 on February 05, 2012, 05:50:14 am
. . .
Lady Bumtickler's Revels . . .

Written by John Hotten, the founder in 1855 of Chatto and Windus.


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: Neil McGowan on February 05, 2012, 10:11:53 am
the founder in 1855 of Chatto and Windus.


 ;)


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: guest2 on February 11, 2012, 09:08:49 am
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8d/PietroMascagni1.jpg)

Hmm . . . according to the admirable Mr. Lebrecht, Mascagni's Isabeau, first put on in Buenos Aires in 1911, is "a peek-a-boo nudist opera." (I leave it to members to look it up and find out why he says that.)


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: Neil McGowan on February 11, 2012, 10:34:25 am
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8d/PietroMascagni1.jpg)

Hmm . . . according to the admirable Mr. Lebrecht, Mascagni's Isabeau, first put on in Buenos Aires in 1911, is "a peek-a-boo nudist opera." (I leave it to members to look it up and find out why he says that.)


What a marvellous opportunity for a second-rate director to make his reputation :)

[note to self: 'must look that up and pass it off as my own find' ;) ]


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: t-p on February 11, 2012, 04:31:58 pm
I never heard about Szymanowski opera King Roger.

It is strange opera. They talked about Szymanowski and his opera in particular on Music Matters today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU16JJsTIGM


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: Neil McGowan on February 11, 2012, 04:35:56 pm

It is strange opera.

You're not kidding there ;)


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: guest2 on February 17, 2012, 07:43:31 am
And here one gets the drift despite the slips:

http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/817664 (http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/817664)

"Margaret remarried a Scotsman Ian Douglas Campbell, Duke of Argyll. The new husband was not at once, but suspect that something was wrong, was to conduct a search in the house of Margaret and found Polaroids of his wife, delivering oral pleasure to a certain man, whose head was not included in the frame. Thirty years later, when all persons involved in the case moved to another world, Margaret admitted that there were two men - Douglas Fairbanks, and Sandis Duncan, the then defense minister and son of Winston Churchill, as Britain's first camera "Polaroid" belonged to just the Department of Defense. . . . Perhaps, "Powder her face" today the world's only opera, where there is a scene of oral sex. And is not there between some secondary people - takes over the main character in one of the central scenes of tempting the clerk. This dramatic turn slippery Ades skillfully uses, based on the classical postulate: the greater the artist the outer limits, the frisky his imagination. The vocal line of the Duchess, is not really singing, and orchestral parts are written with an inimitable sense of humor and are natural to the point of pornography. Not surprisingly, many radio stations refused to broadcast the opera with a scene, and some theaters do not have to put it in spite of the outstanding quality of music."


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: Neil McGowan on February 17, 2012, 08:43:51 am
Aha, now there is a good piece :)  POWDER HER FACE is a neatly-written bit of music-drama.  Of course it has gained a certain notoriety for the scene with the Room Service waiter...  but there is lots of excellent stuff in it beyond that too.

It gained enormously from having a special stage-to-television transfer production directed by David Alden, with an excellent cast.

It's gone on to have numerous subsequent productions too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIMjlN0E1Ao (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIMjlN0E1Ao)



Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: ahinton on February 17, 2012, 06:09:19 pm

It is strange opera.

You're not kidding there ;)
But what wonderful music it has! I saw two performances of what I think was its first UK production back in the 70s and was enthralled on both occasions; the part of Roxana was taken on those occasions by a then almost unknwon soprano by the name of Felicity Lott who, most sadly, seems to have sung no Szymanowski since...


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: t-p on February 19, 2012, 08:12:37 am
Yes, Szymanowski's music is very interesting. I liked it very much. I meant that staging was somewhat strange to me .

There are two very good songs cycles – Love songs of Hafiz and Songs of a Fairy Tale Princes  I had opportunity to hear them. I feel somewhat more familiar with Szymanowski.


It is strange that the same operas are being staged. I am always happy to see more unusual operas. I just heard Tales of Hoffman in English National opera. I had my doubts about it before going. I thought that Offenbach is associated too much in my mind with operetta , but I enjoyed it very much.
To me it was unusual opera to be staged. I don't think it is done very often and I was happy for opportunity to see it.

I thought cast was very good. I liked tenor Barry Banks and mezzo soprano Christine Rice very much. Georgia Jarman .  She is soprano and sang three roles. Other two parts were also good. (Clive Bayley and Graeme Danby  were very good). I really enjoyed the whole production.


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: Neil McGowan on February 19, 2012, 08:20:32 pm
Yes, Szymanowski's music is very interesting. I liked it very much. I meant that staging was somewhat strange to me .

There are two very good songs cycles – Love songs of Hafiz and Songs of a Fairy Tale Princes  I had opportunity to hear them. I feel somewhat more familiar with Szymanowski.


It is strange that the same operas are being staged. I am always happy to see more unusual operas. I just heard Tales of Hoffman in English National opera. I had my doubts about it before going. I thought that Offenbach is associated too much in my mind with operetta , but I enjoyed it very much.
To me it was unusual opera to be staged. I don't think it is done very often and I was happy for opportunity to see it.

I thought cast was very good. I liked tenor Barry Banks and mezzo soprano Christine Rice very much. Georgia Jarman .  She is soprano and sang three roles. Other two parts were also good. (Clive Bayley and Graeme Danby  were very good). I really enjoyed the whole production.


Although of course TALES OF HOFFMAN was the serious opera he spent his whole career composing - quietly and steadily working on it :)  Yes, Graeme Danby is really excellent in that kind of material :)

Of course sometimes rarer operas are staged.  A little bird just whispered in my ear that the Bolshoi are going to stage a new production of CHARODEIKA ("THE SORCERESS") :)


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: ahinton on February 19, 2012, 09:56:53 pm
Oedip?

Montezuma?

Karl V?...


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: Neil McGowan on February 20, 2012, 07:47:24 am
Oedip?

Montezuma?

Karl V?...

Oedip - you mean Enescu's opera?  I saw it performed once by the Romanian National Opera, touring to Moscow in the 1980s.  It managed to clear the stalls by the end of Act I.  I was one of a tiny number of people who sat through to the bitter end.  In truth it had a truly woeful and static staging, which probably didn't help.

All of Graun's operas deserve to be better known!

And so do Krenek's.... but as I have ruefully remarked before, Krenek's grasping relations have put most of his work beyond the means of many companies with performance-fee demands beyond all reasonable limits.  I'm sure it's why his music is so little heard.  They pursued a friend of mine for a fee of 500 euros for a single song-cycle to be given in a private recital for an audience of 60 - she abandoned the idea of performing it at all, but they still threatened to send lawyers to check!   Menotti's work has now fallen into the same trap...   when Francis Menotti inherited his adopted dad's back catalogue, the performing fees went up four-fold! 


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: t-p on February 20, 2012, 08:59:36 am
Enesco is very much neglected now.
I have to say that the topic of Oedip is very heavy. I don't know how many people will like to see it. It is interesting to know that he wrote an opera. Thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6KuUUe63Pw&feature=related



Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: Neil McGowan on February 20, 2012, 10:58:18 am
I rather prefer Stravinsky's telling of the Oedipus tale, personally :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRSLiFinJFw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRSLiFinJFw&feature=related)


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: ahinton on February 20, 2012, 11:18:42 am
I rather prefer Stravinsky's telling of the Oedipus tale, personally :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRSLiFinJFw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRSLiFinJFw&feature=related)
It does little for me, I fear (but then what most people would probably regard as a disproportionate amount of IS doesn't either), although when sung like this...(!!!)


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: Neil McGowan on February 20, 2012, 11:49:21 am
what most people would probably regard as a disproportionate amount of IS doesn't either

I'll willing have the bits you don't want :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycx7CAe6t_Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycx7CAe6t_Y)


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: ahinton on February 20, 2012, 02:50:55 pm
what most people would probably regard as a disproportionate amount of IS doesn't either
I'll willing have the bits you don't want :)
You're more than welcome, as long as I can retain those that I do...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycx7CAe6t_Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycx7CAe6t_Y)
And an inflated and unjustifiable banker's bonus to you, too!...


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: t-p on February 20, 2012, 10:03:29 pm
I don't know why they will not stage Rake's progress more. I enjoyed the clip very much. It is difficult to understand why some operas are neglected as much.
Here we have yet another La Bohem in Cork.


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: Neil McGowan on February 21, 2012, 11:05:51 am
I don't know why they will not stage Rake's progress more. I enjoyed the clip very much. It is difficult to understand why some operas are neglected as much.
Here we have yet another La Bohem in Cork.

I fear it all arises from poorly-qualified managements of theatres, who don't know how to attract a decent audience to more varied works.  If you actually ask the public they'll say "oh no, not La Boheme again!"...   but still it comes back over and over again.   Which itself is a pity, because it is a fine work in itself, and we're only over-sated with it.

What I find most worrying of all is how few new works are commissioned and staged.


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: t-p on February 23, 2012, 10:24:23 pm
There is another little known opera. Itis by Zimmerman and is called Bluthochzeit.

It is written in 12 tone's idiom. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUTGXYB8bnU


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: ahinton on February 23, 2012, 10:46:02 pm
There is another little known opera. Itis by Zimmerman and is called Bluthochzeit.

It is written in 12 tone's idiom. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUTGXYB8bnU
A little confusion here, methinks; it's Fortner, not Zimmermann...


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: Neil McGowan on February 24, 2012, 06:36:22 am
It is written in 12 tone's idiom.

Sadly, it is.  The composer couldn't think of anything original.


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: t-p on February 24, 2012, 09:09:08 am
Now I am confused. I think that the opera we are talking about is by Zimmerman.
I couldn't find anything about Forner.


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: ahinton on February 24, 2012, 12:27:21 pm
Now I am confused. I think that the opera we are talking about is by Zimmerman.
I couldn't find anything about Forner.
Yes, it seems that you are indeed confused! The Youtube file that you posted above displays it as an extract from a work by Wolfgang Fortner, whose dates are 1907-1987 and whose opera dates from 1957; Zimmermann, on the other hand, who lived from 1918 until he took his own life in 1970, seems tnot to have written a work on the same subject, according to the comprehensive works list at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernd_Alois_Zimmermann.


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: guest54 on February 24, 2012, 01:44:29 pm
What a pity that on the "you-tube" there can be only snatches and snippets of operas! That is not really what one wants is it. Perhaps in the not too distant future it will have become possible to construct or synthesize one's own complete performance of a rare but important stage work (such as that Bluthochzeit), using cartoon-like human figures such as presently appear in computer games, and orchestral and vocal music easily and automatically generated from a quick scan of the full score.

I would like to thank Madame t-p for drawing our attention to this.

And Fortner was was he not a much more serious and important personage than Zimmermann.

All Art should be always available should it not? No obstacles!


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: t-p on February 24, 2012, 02:01:16 pm
My information about Zimmermann and his opera came from an article in Gramophone magazine by Michael McManus. The article is aboutconductor Gunter Wand.   He says that Zimmerman championed works by Baird, Braufels and  BA Zimmermann.  Now re-reading it I can see that I was confused.  He championed Fortner too. There is recording of Fortner's opera by Ginter Wand. This recording is from 1957. 
Thanks to this discussion I understood now who wrote this opera. I also found out names of composers I didn't know before.

Thank you all for your patience and understanding.


I found song cycle of Forner. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2TQf_0anYI


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: t-p on February 27, 2012, 06:09:00 pm
I wonder what people here will think about Korngold opera the "Dead city"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpO_9c_GGH4


This aria is famous now but I never heard it before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1IzUbFMDGc


Title: Re: Now here's a little-known opera....
Post by: Neil McGowan on February 28, 2012, 08:16:47 am
Quote
I wonder what people here will think about Korngold opera the "Dead city"

It's a bit like drowning in syrup :) 

In small doses I like some of the music from this opera, but I find it hard to sit through in its entirety. I think the principle problem is a very shallow plot, in which nothing really happens.  A man misses his dead wife - and then doesn't.  It's hardly enough to fill 2.5 hours in a theatre. The librettist needed to have included a subplot involving one of the characters, to add a little variety. 

Of the German operas of that era, I greatly prefer Krenek's JONNY SPIELT AUF.  In fact the two operas were competing for a stage production in the same year - Korngold's family connections helped him win this little battle, whereas Krenek was a foreigner regarded with suspicion.

But JONNY is a much better-written piece, not least because it has a well-shaped, interesting libretto with a double plot...  the romance of the composer with the opera-singer (with its setting in an alpine resort at the opening, a nice touch which offers the composer a chance to write atmospheric music), and the fight for the Amati violin between the great maestro and the negro jazz-man (with the chance for Krenek to write the jazz-band into the score as a self-standing entity).  There's also a philosophical undercurrent about whether European art-music is a dead duck, and jazz is the heir-in-waiting?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-mYBtAzJXY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-mYBtAzJXY)