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Assorted items => General musical discussion => Topic started by: dholling on November 24, 2013, 04:57:30 am



Title: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: dholling on November 24, 2013, 04:57:30 am
Hello Everyone:

Being keenly aware and appreciative of the immense musical talents from the Baltic and Slavic countries (for instances, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine, Estonia, Belarus, even Finland and Sweden), there is that nagging, lingering thought that continues to bother me, which is, why are these countries not doing enough, if at all, in promoting and bringing to the fore, the works of their composers, past and present? What's great about forums like this is that we know and share knowledge and opinions about these composers and their works, many of which are masterful. If we look at Latvia, for instance, we do know the talents of say, Skulte, a symphonist par excellence, Ivanovs, Medins, Barrisons. One, therefore, would think that the country would establish a record company or collaborate with record labels to put these works out there, and yet that has not happen much. Estonia, although it likewise started late in establishing an at least viable classical music tradition, had brought up a plethora of huge talents (Eller, Artur, Eugene, and Villem Kapp, Auster, Tubin, Raats, Lemba, et al.) and yet it has done little in promoting their music. Sweden is to an extent an exception, even though one wishes it would have done more. Finland, though, lags behind (Melartin comes to mind).

I know there's a history behind this unfortunate phenomenon, with many of these countries that were formerly part of the USSR (including Eastern countries like Armenia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, which have these problems also). And we know that Melodiya and its labels (like Mezhdunarodnaya Kniga for instance) had distribution problems, which I surmise, have lingering effects today (there's more to the story than I know I'm sure). And of course, there's the matter of economic feasibility. A friend of mine told me that it costs upwards to $4-5,000 to put together an album (whether that's true I can't tell). But in the music market with cooler CD sales as compared with the sales during the 1990s, I might see why there's the hesitation to put works truly in the fringes of the repertoire out there. But independent labels like CPO is disproving that, at least in some ways. Could it also be that these countries do not want these works known for copyright reasons (even Tchaikovsky's music was "borrowed" in various genres in the past, quite blatantly in fact).

So is there more to this that meets the eye? Am I off somewhere? Please, what say you?
 :-\


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: Neil McGowan on November 24, 2013, 08:16:32 am
Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Croatia, Bulgaria, and, errr, Russia, are also Slavic countries ;)



Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: Bobyor on November 24, 2013, 10:29:01 am
My experience tells me that the Baltic countries actually do quite a bit to promote their music, but one has to get in touch with their music information centres. For example, during a recent trip to Riga I was met by a representative, given CDs of Skulte, Ivanovs etc, and taken to the national library where I could photocopy -- gratis -- the entire piano oeuvre of Kalnins. Such a service just does not exist in the UK, for example. These countries have very small financial resources. Finland, which has deeper pockets, does an awful lot more. Think of all those CDs of Aarre Merikanto, etc.


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: dholling on November 24, 2013, 08:14:32 pm
Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Croatia, Bulgaria, and, errr, Russia, are also Slavic countries ;)



Yes, I know: just keeping in mind syntax.
 :)


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: dholling on November 24, 2013, 08:42:55 pm
My experience tells me that the Baltic countries actually do quite a bit to promote their music, but one has to get in touch with their music information centres. For example, during a recent trip to Riga I was met by a representative, given CDs of Skulte, Ivanovs etc, and taken to the national library where I could photocopy -- gratis -- the entire piano oeuvre of Kalnins. Such a service just does not exist in the UK, for example. These countries have very small financial resources. Finland, which has deeper pockets, does an awful lot more. Think of all those CDs of Aarre Merikanto, etc.

That's quite true re. Finland. But then again, many of those recordings are out of print.


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: guest224 on November 24, 2013, 09:35:23 pm
This is a source of immense frustration to me, esp in the case where there are existing recordings.  These are not going to mae money commercially, but they can be play a significant part in nation building (domestically) and building international cultural awareness of your (new) country internationally.  So why doesn't Estonia (for example) make available online its opera by Ewald Aav The Vikings (or even fragments)? WHy doesn't Belarus post up the complete symphonies of Vasil Zolotarev, which (apparently) were recorded by Melodia (according to a regular poster on here)? Such a small step around which they could create valuable cultural PR for their countries, make an event out of it, etc.


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: Neil McGowan on November 24, 2013, 10:34:02 pm
play a significant part in nation building (domestically) and building international cultural awareness of your (new) country internationally. 

Sadly it takes a particularly advanced kind of mind to think outside the box in this way. Far from every nation sees the 'value' of being valued for something other than tangible exports - such as oil, electronics, or cheeses.

Even countries you'd think were quite advanced in their approach sometimes surprise us ;)

(http://simmons.mit.edu/rs/Images/Fall%202010/2010-10-15-switzerland.jpg)


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: guest145 on November 24, 2013, 10:47:20 pm
I believe the major issue here, from the point of view of Latvia and the other Baltic countries, is money. There is simply a reluctance to fund projects that will not generate as much profit as more mainstream repertoire will. Also, keep in mind that the worldwide economic crisis hit these countries much harder than Western Europe or the USA. While the situation wasn't quite as dire as Greece and the other countries that have been suffering under severe austerity measures, it wasn't a whole lot better, either. Arts and cultural organizations that were accustomed to government funding lost a substantial amount of their budgets.

However... as I've stated here before, another factor in the lack of releases of non-mainstream repertoire by national composers is simply a sense of embarrassment, or a feeling of inferiority. There is such a strong culture of looking to established masterpieces and "major" composers as a benchmark of musical quality, that they just can't quite believe that their own homegrown talent is quite up to that exalted standard, with the possible exception of Vasks and other composers who have been enthusiastically embraced by the West. I know from having talked to students at the national conservatory that they don't even study very much music by Latvian composers. Looking at Latvian Radio playlists in their archive, you'll note that Latvian composers are not as great a part of their programming as they were seven or eight years ago, and don't appear quite as often on concert broadcasts.

And.. the public in Latvia is not as interested in the classics as one might think. Certainly, a greater proportion of the population has more awareness and knowledge of "serious" music than in the USA, but there still seems to be an increasing tendency toward more popular fare.

Copyright issues, as mentioned by one poster in this thread, are likely not a major factor, though the issue of royalties gets back to the financial aspect. Also, I don't know if this is the case in every former Soviet republic, but I do know that in Latvia, the rights to recordings made in Latvia by Melodiya during the Soviet period have reverted to Latvian ownership. Certainly, some audio restoration and editing would be necessary in many instances, but it couldn't be that expensive to reissue some of these recordings on CD or MP3 downloads. But, no one seems to have the money or the inclination to take on such a project.

I'm sure the reasons are more varied and complex than the basic issues I've discussed here, but my experience tells me they are major factors, nonetheless.


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: Jolly Roger on November 24, 2013, 11:24:56 pm
I believe the major issue here, from the point of view of Latvia and the other Baltic countries, is money. There is simply a reluctance to fund projects that will not generate as much profit as more mainstream repertoire will. Also, keep in mind that the worldwide economic crisis hit these countries much harder than Western Europe or the USA. While the situation wasn't quite as dire as Greece and the other countries that have been suffering under severe austerity measures, it wasn't a whole lot better, either. Arts and cultural organizations that were accustomed to government funding lost a substantial amount of their budgets.

However... as I've stated here before, another factor in the lack of releases of non-mainstream repertoire by national composers is simply a sense of embarrassment, or a feeling of inferiority. There is such a strong culture of looking to established masterpieces and "major" composers as a benchmark of musical quality, that they just can't quite believe that their own homegrown talent is quite up to that exalted standard, with the possible exception of Vasks and other composers who have been enthusiastically embraced by the West. I know from having talked to students at the national conservatory that they don't even study very much music by Latvian composers. Looking at Latvian Radio playlists in their archive, you'll note that Latvian composers are not as great a part of their programming as they were seven or eight years ago, and don't appear quite as often on concert broadcasts.

And.. the public in Latvia is not as interested in the classics as one might think. Certainly, a greater proportion of the population has more awareness and knowledge of "serious" music than in the USA, but there still seems to be an increasing tendency toward more popular fare.

Copyright issues, as mentioned by one poster in this thread, are likely not a major factor, though the issue of royalties gets back to the financial aspect. Also, I don't know if this is the case in every former Soviet republic, but I do know that in Latvia, the rights to recordings made in Latvia by Melodiya during the Soviet period have reverted to Latvian ownership. Certainly, some audio restoration and editing would be necessary in many instances, but it couldn't be that expensive to reissue some of these recordings on CD or MP3 downloads. But, no one seems to have the money or the inclination to take on such a project.

I'm sure the reasons are more varied and complex than the basic issues I've discussed here, but my experience tells me they are major factors, nonetheless.
Another issue is that Latvian classical music is not often featured in Western concerts and most concert attendees are fed the same old warhorses mixed with the latest
aspiring and well-connected composers. The Proms are a perfect example of this practice. Perhaps the Latvian orchestras need to go on more tours financed by some enterprising corporate sponsors..


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: Dundonnell on November 24, 2013, 11:44:59 pm
I don't think that the Finns have done too badly actually: through the agencies of Ondine and Alba in Finland and Bis in Sweden.

For example, the symphonies of Aho(Bis + Ondine: No.6 still missing), Englund(Ondine: complete), Kokkonen(Bis and Ondine: both complete), Merikanto(Alba: complete), Melartin(Ondine: complete), Rautavaara(Ondine: complete and Naxos), Sallinen(Bis and CPO), Klami(Ondine), Madetoja(Chandos and Alba: complete, Ondine) are all available.
We could still do with a set of the three Pingoud symphonies but, for a relatively small country, that is not at all bad compared with Norway and Sweden-both infinitely richer countries-where a number of distinguished composers have not yet enjoyed such good fortune(I am thinking of Rosenberg, Eklund, von Koch, Fernstrom, Soderlind, Haug etc.).

Maris refers to the public attitude to serious music. It is a source of real pain to me to read over the last few days the choice of Desert Island Discs chosen by the Leader of the Opposition, Ed Milliband, in Great Britain(the Prime Minister's choice was no better): 7 "pop/rock" bands and one so-called "classical" piece(Milliband chose "Jerusalem" and Cameron "O, For the Wings of a Dove" ::)). When the next but one in line to the British throne, Prince William, chooses to host a rock concert at Buckingham Palace what hope is left :(
For far too large a proportion of the population and increasingly for the younger generation "serious music" is not "cool". But then it would not do David Cameron's "elist image" any favours if he was filmed attending the opera now would it ???


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: Jolly Roger on November 25, 2013, 03:43:17 am
This may be off topic, but relevant to why classical music is generally on the decline.
We are in the midst of a dramatic decline in the quality of Western Civilization and music is not exempt. The majority our youth now follow false musical gods like lemmings. Politicians and others of influence (both left and right) want to be "cool" as well, so they endorse junk music and music of value suffers. Maybe it has always been this way, but I think a degenerate mass media is the primary villain. The fact that classical music still survives is a tribute to those who have not succumbed to the coarseness and incivility of these times.


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: Neil McGowan on November 25, 2013, 05:37:50 am
But then it would not do David Cameron's "elist image" any favours if he was filmed attending the opera now would it ???

I wouldn't lose sleep over the chances of that happening in any case ;)


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: guest2 on November 25, 2013, 06:28:46 am
. . . We are in the midst of a dramatic decline in the quality of Western Civilization and music is not exempt. The majority our youth now follow false musical gods like lemmings. Politicians and others of influence (both left and right) want to be "cool" as well, so they endorse junk music and music of value suffers. Maybe it has always been this way, but I think a degenerate mass media is the primary villain. The fact that classical music still survives is a tribute to those who have not succumbed to the coarseness and incivility of these times.

I agree with every word!


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: guest145 on November 25, 2013, 12:59:37 pm
Quote
We are in the midst of a dramatic decline in the quality of Western Civilization and music is not exempt. The majority our youth now follow false musical gods like lemmings. Politicians and others of influence (both left and right) want to be "cool" as well, so they endorse junk music and music of value suffers.

Precisely!


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: SerAmantiodiNicolao on November 25, 2013, 04:15:21 pm
I don't think that the Finns have done too badly actually: through the agencies of Ondine and Alba in Finland and Bis in Sweden.

For example, the symphonies of Aho(Bis + Ondine: No.6 still missing), Englund(Ondine: complete), Kokkonen(Bis and Ondine: both complete), Merikanto(Alba: complete), Melartin(Ondine: complete), Rautavaara(Ondine: complete and Naxos), Sallinen(Bis and CPO), Klami(Ondine), Madetoja(Chandos and Alba: complete, Ondine) are all available.
We could still do with a set of the three Pingoud symphonies but, for a relatively small country, that is not at all bad compared with Norway and Sweden-both infinitely richer countries-where a number of distinguished composers have not yet enjoyed such good fortune(I am thinking of Rosenberg, Eklund, von Koch, Fernstrom, Soderlind, Haug etc.).

Don't forget opera: I think most, if not all, of the major Finnish operas have been recorded.  Madetoja's two, The Last Temptations, most if not all of Sallinen's, Merikanto's Juha, several of Rautavaara's, even the one effort by Sibelius.  The pickings for us lovers of Finnish opera are quite strong.

The majority our youth now follow false musical gods like lemmings.


Hey, now >:(  Some of us young'uns have taste.  ;D

Taste which, at least in my case, was developed primarily from the listening environment at home.  That's a huge part of the problem; classical music has no foothold to speak of in popular culture any more.  It's the sphere of the rarified and the elite...and that stereotype is being perpetuated by countless television programs and other avenues which mold children's cultural consciousness.  Therein lies the problem.


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: Dundonnell on November 25, 2013, 04:50:05 pm
Indeed. And one can hardly complain about the treatment of Sibelius ;D Everything he wrote, including music for which he had little regard and/or was written on commission, and including different versions of the same work, has been recorded by Bis :)

Jolly Roger did say "the majority of our youth" ;D Of course there are a lot of young people involved in "serious" music, often as performers. That is our hope for the future....but it is bleak to reflect on the general "cultural" milieu in which they are growing up and it is perfectly proper to identify the media as villains in the piece, pandering as it does to perceived popular taste.

And, no, I do not think that politicians in the past endorsed "junk music" in an attempt to be "cool". That is a manifestation of the way politicians are now subject to "spin". In the UK the first Prime Minister to endorse such "low culture" was Tony Blair. I doubt that Margaret Thatcher had much, if any, interest in music but Edward Heath back in the early 1970s was certainly a passionate lover of classical music, playing the organ and conducting the London Symphony Orchestra and other orchestras(albeit not very well ;D):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIYTS7hOpUo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIYTS7hOpUo)

and choosing RVW's Sea Symphony amongst his eight Desert Island Discs(seven of which were "classical" choices).



Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: guest145 on November 25, 2013, 06:32:39 pm
Quote
Hey, now Angry  Some of us young'uns have taste.  Grin

Taste which, at least in my case, was developed primarily from the listening environment at home.  That's a huge part of the problem; classical music has no foothold to speak of in popular culture any more.

Quite right, on both counts! I know many younger people who have a passionate love for "serious" music, but it's usually very much despite popular culture. Exposure at home is probably the biggest influence, but I know of many music students who found their passion through their school music program, not from their home environment. But, as funding for many school music and arts programs has waned, this avenue is closing for many as well.

I'm proud to say that I have two daughters in their 20s who are fine musicians, devoted to study, performance, and teaching of predominantly "serious" music. Of course, they grew up in an exceptionally musical household and had many opportunities outside their school programs, but the love and appreciation for music, literature, and the arts in general were an important part of their lives from infancy. Not all of us are in a position to provide this sort of artistic nurturing, but at the very least we can reach out and support others who can, and music programs that will make a difference in the lives of other young people, and by extension our sadly degraded culture as well.


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: SerAmantiodiNicolao on November 26, 2013, 04:28:37 pm
I realize I may be wading into somewhat murky territory here, but I shall wade away nonetheless.  ;D

The New Republic ran a fascinating article on this subject back in 2007, as it happens, within the context of postwar American politics:

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/the-musical-mystique

I was most struck upon first reading it (a few years back, when Alex Ross linked it from his last blog) by the anecdote about George Benjamin and "the music of our time".  That has stuck with me because it's the flip side of the argument we're having - yes, classical music is no longer part of the mainstream of pop culture, but at least in part that's due to some classical musicians' insular attitudes.  (I feel that the academics of the 50's and 60's have a lot to answer for.)  If anything gives me hope, it's that a large body of composers are turning their back on such feelings and are looking for a way to genuinely connect with the contemporary listener.  Not all of them succeed, but enough do that I think we may be starting to see a way out of the wilderness.


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: guest377 on November 26, 2013, 05:32:04 pm
Ahh.. the old ‘why don’t more people listen to classical music’ question…actually “Latvian” is right. 

The major issue is money.  There is a reluctance of the governments to fund these projects in the current economic conditions.  Even in the US, we saw Tower Records, once an icon of classical music, close their doors.   Living in Dallas affords one of listening to our State owned (actually city financed) classical music radio station (www.wrr101.com)  that every year the City Council considers shutting down because “no one listens to it.”   Back in the 1970s, the Dallas Symphony Orchestra actually shut down for several years due to lack of support and “poor attendance”…hard to believe.. (I saw  Rostropovich there in 2000  performing Shostakovich’s Cello Concerto).


Actually, Estonia has probably been in the forefront (with the state financed “EMIC”) of promoting Estonian classical music (Estonia Music Productions –a state/private collaboration  to produce recordings now distributed by Naxos) and also the state supported Tubin Society which has had their budget slashed.  Neeme Jarvi  and his children have championed the cause of bringing more Estonian music to America and W Europe  even on tour with the ERSO with the Jarvi’s in Atlanta, NY, Chicago. If you can, try to attend the ERSO on tour and even the LNSO on tour (sometimes).


I am hopeful… while in Vilnius, we were able to “cross the border” (what a disaster) into Belarus and attend a concert in Minsk at the State Academy of Music of Bogatyrev’s Sym No 1, Abeliovich’s Sym No 4, Podkovyrov’s Piano Concerto and Aladov’s Tanseval’naia Suite for Symphony Orchestra.   My hosts said sometimes they do sell ‘limited runs’ of CD’s of prior concerts until they sell out in the lobby of the Academy (didn’t see them).   My hosts also said that the SO of the National TV and Radio Company of Belarus also perform concerts of Belarusian composers frequently in Minsk.  Much of Belarus is disconnected from the West.. especially the internet, which is seen as a western spy thing.  The state monitors heavily any commerce on the internet and heavily taxes anything coming out of Belarus.  Belarus is the closest thing to the former USSR... 1960s ish.... reminds me of the old black and white Mission Impossible series.


Much of the Baltics and Slavic countries are  “Westernised” in music taste… I can turn on the radio in Dallas and hear the same music in Riga, Tallinn, Vilnius, Moscow, Kiev: ...Taylor Swift, the Florida-Georgia Line, Lady Gaga,   etc . etc.. the good ol’ days of Melodiya recordings (except for in Minsk) are gone forever. 


Sent from my iPhone



Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: dholling on November 26, 2013, 05:36:01 pm
I'm so glad I started this topic. It's a more far-reaching issue than simply why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music (I was thinking as a fan and a collector when I wrote this, I confess). I think SerAmantiodiNicolao in particular is on to something, in that yes, there was a snobbery, insular attitude among classical musicians (and listeners) that gave them the us versus them mentality (condescension comes to mind). But people like Leonard Bernstein and Luciano Pavarotti challenged that by making it fun and a curiosity (and those who followed portrayed Classical music as though it's more approachable than thought due to the popular misconception; think Michael Tilson-Thomas, Itzhak Perlman, Yo-Yo Ma). I don't think they were trying to make the genre hip, per se, but showing that it's still relevant to the human experience and that it transcends. Their efforts paid off, even though it remains an uphill battle (there's simply a plethora of musical types and genres worldwide). But Classical music remains as viable as ever and I don't see it dying anytime soon. It's a matter of re-invention and remaining vigilant in putting the music out there, via performances, via recordings, via discussions and sharing ideas and thoughts.

I grew up in a home where music was inseparable to my family's daily life (not Classical music though (or even Jazz), but Disco, Reggae, Soul, R&B, later Hip Hop). I got hooked onto Classical music and later Jazz due to curiosity (thanks to enterprising radio stations in NYC such as WNCN and WQXR). Bruckner's 2nd and 3rd Symphonies floored me, and so I ventured on to his other symphonies and religious works. Glazunov's 2nd then his 6th Symphonies had a grip on me in ways I did not imagine, and so I likewise explored his music further. Same with Bax, Wagner, Tchaikovsky, and later the Soviets, the Scandinavians (Nielsen was among my first loves), and so forth. Music transcends and finds its audience, that's it. What we do to it is another matter.

Jolly Roger states that "we are in the midst of a dramatic decline in the quality of Western Civilization and music is not exempt." Well, I think the qualities of life, creative thinking, the art of argument and articulation, human interaction, etc. are lessening in much of the globe. You could read any articles on online newspapers and how many people argue their positions is (often) quite frightening. The era of new ideas and experimentation that would wow society (and societies) is long behind us, by and large. So, we're in a standstill right now. We must not forget that today's world is very much unpredictable (much of it due to the global economy). What comes next and what the world will yield are up in the air. But as seen time and time again, mankind is resilient and inventive, even if the glory years (as far as musical art is concerned) remain in the past.


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: guest377 on November 27, 2013, 05:29:33 pm
Living in the Dallas TX area we are blessed to have Joseph Banowetz and  Vladimir Viardo teach/perform concerts at the Univ. of North Texas and of course show case various Russian/Soviet pieces wth the University of North Texas Symphony Orchestra. 

Banowetz has showcased over the years several of Rubinstein's works http://music.unt.edu/faculty-and-staff/detail/4    including a massive microfilm project of his complete piano works at the UNT Library, and I've enjoyed going to see him showcase another 'premier' performance with the 'student' UNT orchestra.

Vladimir is a resident professor at UNT http://music.unt.edu/faculty-and-staff/detail/112 and his piano performances are just amazing... see his bio.



Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: Malito on November 28, 2013, 06:36:03 pm
I agree with all of these comments and have wondered for many years why more recordings of little known music are not available.  I, too, was in Riga (three years ago) and was pleased to talk to people at the Conservatory who gave me some CDs (CDRs) of music I had not had before.  On this site I have been able to copy some incredible music and I am thrilled to be able to hear things I never dreamed I would.  Yes, music and culture are on the decline all around the world and that sad situation is not going to improve.  I am grateful for having heard so much music I never dreamed I would through this site and the kindness of several people who who have sent me things to download like Dundonnell and others.  You have given me so much pleasure in my (rather boring) retirement years.  I thank everyone who posts music here (I wish I knew how and that I had some thing not already here) for making all this wonderful music available to me and others who love and appreciate fine music.  Malito :)


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: Toby Esterhase on November 28, 2013, 11:11:42 pm
IMHO lack of popularity of contemporary classical music is partially due to prevailing avantgarde trend.


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: chill319 on November 29, 2013, 05:31:48 am
When the Estonian conductor Anu Tali guested with the local orchestra recently, her program included the symphonic poem "Dawn" by Heino Eller (1887-1970).


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: Toby Esterhase on March 31, 2018, 01:17:27 am
Compact Disc from Montenegro:
http://www.muzickicentar.com/en/izdanja/


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: guest224 on March 31, 2018, 07:10:47 pm
Compact Disc from Montenegro:
http://www.muzickicentar.com/en/izdanja/

I think this is in the wrong thread...


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: Neil McGowan on March 31, 2018, 09:42:54 pm
Quote
I think this is in the wrong thread...

Why so?  Montenegro is most certainly a Slavic country.


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: calyptorhynchus on March 31, 2018, 10:07:40 pm
The question presupposes that Anglo-Saxon and other European nationalities* are promoting their recent classical music.

I don't think they are, I have a list as long as my arm of English and British music from 1600 too the present that is worthy of being recorded but hasn't been. Record labels concentrate on re/issuing infinite rerecordings of the same 'safe' works (often not very well performed).

But the situation with other European music is similar, look how poorly Milhaud is recorded for example, many recordings of his earlier works, many of his later works not recorded at all. Holmboe is mostly recorded (though a composer of his statue demands multiple versions of the symphonies, for example, rather than just one), but there are notable works not recorded.

The US, with its prevailing 'free-market' culture is perhaps the worse case of the lot. David Diamond's works for example are almost half unrecorded, an inexcusable omission.

*Sure to raise the ire of Brexiters LOL


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: guest224 on April 01, 2018, 01:04:01 am
Quote
I think this is in the wrong thread...

Why so?  Montenegro is most certainly a Slavic country.

Absolutely it is.  I just meant from the point of view that there is a country thread on this forum, so I would encourage him to open a Montenegro thread in that section, and then all info about this and any other Montenegrin composers can be put there, and easily found.  Here, it might get buried.


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: Dundonnell on April 01, 2018, 01:11:33 am
The question presupposes that Anglo-Saxon and other European nationalities* are promoting their recent classical music.

I don't think they are, I have a list as long as my arm of English and British music from 1600 too the present that is worthy of being recorded but hasn't been. Record labels concentrate on re/issuing infinite rerecordings of the same 'safe' works (often not very well performed).

But the situation with other European music is similar, look how poorly Milhaud is recorded for example, many recordings of his earlier works, many of his later works not recorded at all. Holmboe is mostly recorded (though a composer of his statue demands multiple versions of the symphonies, for example, rather than just one), but there are notable works not recorded.

The US, with its prevailing 'free-market' culture is perhaps the worse case of the lot. David Diamond's works for example are almost half unrecorded, an inexcusable omission.

*Sure to raise the ire of Brexiters LOL

"English and British"??

The English are British. England is part of the United Kingdom. So too (at present at least) are Scotland and Wales.

HOWEVER.......see the thread I have just started about the David Diamond Symphony No.6 :) :)


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: calyptorhynchus on April 01, 2018, 03:39:07 am
"English and British" = works by English + (Welsh, Scottish and non-nationalist Irish) composers.

 :D

I just spotted the good news about the Diamond 6th too.


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: Neil McGowan on April 01, 2018, 09:12:53 pm
I have a list as long as my arm of English and British music from 1600 too the present that is worthy of being recorded but hasn't been.

Yes, indeed, and it's a rather sore point. At the risk of banging my favourite drum once more..  performances of Arne, Shield, and Linley never get off the starting blocks. The best of that generation - who had operas performed at the Austrian Royal Court in Vienna, alongside those of Mozart, Haydn, Dittersdorf, and Salieri - was Stephen Storace. Of whom you cannot find a single work on disk. The BBC couldn't give two hoots. His astounding Beethovenian heroic 'rescue' operas, such as THE SIEGE OF BELGRADE, THE PIRATES, or THE CHEROKEE are utterly ignored - and written off as 'ballad operas' (which they certainly aren't). His operatic 'thriller' THE HAUNTED TOWER (1789) remained in repertory in Britain unti the 1830s, where it was picked-up as career vehicle for the young tenor John Braham.


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: BrianA on April 02, 2018, 12:13:08 am
To take a slightly different perspective....

Are the Baltic and Slavic countries really doing such a poor job of promoting their music, at least relative to the rest of us?

To use a couple of more-or-less concrete examples, I have become a great admirer of the music of Imants Kalnins (sorry for the lack of diacriticals).  I doubt if I had heard of Kalnins five years ago, but today I have heard (and have recordings of) a substantial body of his work.  Another Baltic composer whose music I greatly enjoy would be Erkki-Sven Tuur, and Tuur certainly suffers no lack of promotion.

I will acknowledge that I may be confusing two or more issues:  my discovery of Kalnins, for example, is largely a function of my discovery of sites such as this one and my association with you bunch  :D and similar collectives of enthusiasts and I'm not really sure where/how "promotion" enters into that particular dynamic.

By way of contrast, I'm Canadian, and if you want a real example of a country failing to promote it's music (especially "serious"/"classical"/etc music) Canada could be your poster child.

Brian


Title: Re: Why the Baltic and Slavic countries not promoting their music? A Wonder.
Post by: guest377 on April 02, 2018, 05:26:14 am
Ha... I know what you are talking about... i.e.  Canada.... I married a Canadian.. and yes. they have forgotten their heritage.