The Art-Music Forum

Preliminaries => Greetings => Topic started by: kleines c on January 09, 2013, 05:13:26 am



Title: kleines c
Post by: kleines c on January 09, 2013, 05:13:26 am
Greetings from 'c', kleines c. I am posting this particular topic in order to thank Sydney Grew, publicly, for his online wisdom, friendship and support over many years. What will survive of us, I suspect, is love.  I should also like to take this opportunity to send my very best wishes to what remains of the BBC (Radio 3) online community.  Of course, some kind of personal introduction would most certainly now be helpful, as I realise that for some, although by no means all of The Art-Music Forum, I am simply a stranger in the night.

http://dictionary.reverso.net/german-english/kleines%20c

Many BBC Radio 3 listeners, messageboarders and promenaders will know me from the BBC Proms and from many live Radio 3 events, including the seven Free Thinking Festivals in both Liverpool and Gateshead. The speed of light in vacuum, commonly denoted as kleines 'c', is a universal physical constant important in many areas of physics. Its value is 299,792,458 metres per second, a figure that is exact because the length of the metre is defined from this constant and the international standard for time.  Sunlight therefore takes about 8 minutes 19 seconds to reach the planet Earth.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2e/Earth_to_Sun_-_en.png/300px-Earth_to_Sun_-_en.png)

According to special relativity, kleines c is the maximum speed at which all energy, matter, and information in the universe can travel. It is the speed at which all massless particles and associated fields, including electromagnetic radiation such as light, travel in vacuum. It is also the speed of gravity, as predicted by current theories. Such particles and waves travel at kleines c regardless of the motion of the source or the inertial frame of reference of the observer. In the theory of relativity, 'c' interrelates space and time, and also appears in the famous equation of mass–energy equivalence: E = mcc.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Albert_Einstein_1979_USSR_Stamp.jpg/250px-Albert_Einstein_1979_USSR_Stamp.jpg)

The legendary kleines c first posted on the BBC Radio 3 'Proms' messageboard in the summer of 2004 about 'The First Night of the Proms'.  In the summer of 2005, kleines c returned to the BBC message boards to invite his fellow promenaders for a drink at the legendary 'Nag's Head'.

(http://www.fancyapint.com/media/pubimages/pic385.jpg)

http://www.videojug.com/film/london-the-nags-head-pub

Indeed, this particular public house even won a Fancyapint? 2005 Visitors’ award as a result of this particular visit.  What a memorable night it turned out to be.  We moved faster even than the very speed of night!

http://youtu.be/1kh7AtaKPwo
   
In 2013, due to unprecedented demand from around the world, everyone reading The Art-Music Forum is cordially invited to join us all south of the River Thames at the George Inn Southwark from 16:00 (GMT) on Wednesday 16 January. The BBC online community, The Radio 3 Forum and the entire R3OK community are most welcome, too! If you cannot make it in person, do not worry. Here is the George Inn online:
 
(http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/servlet/file/store5/item173770/version1/fileservice38/173770_38_preview.jpg)

http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/george-inn/
 
As ever, kleines c will be sitting on the left. It is the best seat in the Inn. Afterwards, you are more than welcome to join us all for dinner in the legendary 'c' kitchen. What a night it promises to be! After dinner, let's face the music and dance.
 
http://youtu.be/TnfKmNRfLYU
 
I am aware that you are all most unlikely to share my populist tastes, whether in music, the wider arts or elsewhere.  Nevertheless, The Art-Music Forum is finally going to have a ball! Strictly, you've got no chance, even if Darcey shows! If you cannot make it in person, do not worry; in the Beginning was the End.
 
http://www.somersethouse.org.uk/performance/in-the-beginning-was-the-end
 
Join us at Somerset House promptly at 18:30 (GMT) on Monday 28 January 2013.  If you cannot make it in person, do not worry at all!  Here is the FT video for everyone reading The Art-Music Forum instead:

http://video.ft.com/

I propose some toast: to all of you! Thank you for being. Three cheers from kleines c and the gang (breakfast coffee)!


Title: Re: kleines c
Post by: Neil McGowan on January 09, 2013, 08:17:13 am
Welcome, kleines!

We have long expected your arrival here, and the moment has finally come!

What a charming invitation for 16th January!  By coincidence I shall be in London, and it would be lovely to see my old friends Morticia, HTH, and the lovely crowd. I think I shall pop along to the George!


Title: Re: kleines c
Post by: kleines c on January 09, 2013, 08:57:44 am
You could expect the George to be rather busier than on previous occasions, Neil, if only because of the publicity it has received over the Christmas holidays, not only here online, but also all over London! The George Inn Southwark is not my favourite public house in London, by any means, it does not compare, for example, with the legendary Nag's Head, but the legendary Nag herself is wise enough to know that it's all horses for courses, anyway!

I suppose that it is interesting how the explosive growth of social media has changed the ways in which we interact with one another in the twenty-first century. For all of us, it remains an experiment in progress. I do not personally use either Facebook or Twitter, for example, but I have always felt that it is important to ground virtual reality in the real world.  So kleines c is a real person, although you can drop the kleines if you want (it conveys a variety of different meanings, as well you know), and in the German-speaking world, I am often called kleines, so my online nickname works well enough offline.

Obviously, Neil, my background is not your background, and I am sure that we could find myriad things to disagree with one another about.  Yet that is beside the point.  We should value a society which makes our individual and collective existence possible.  We are, in a profound sense, such things as dreams are made of. Congratulations to all!


Title: Re: kleines c
Post by: Neil McGowan on January 09, 2013, 09:40:51 am
Well, it would be a dull world if we all agreed about everything :)  Disagreement is not a negative thing. It can lead to tolerance, understanding, and consensus.

I don't participate in any social media, because I remain unconvinced of the signal-to-noise ratio :)  I have been to the George several times - long before it became the haunt of the r3ok crowd :)  I haven't been following any news stories about it recently, however.

It will be pleasant to pop along their next week to see my dear friends, and find out what they've been getting up to all this while?


Title: Re: kleines c
Post by: kleines c on January 09, 2013, 09:46:20 am
In its widest sense, I would argue that online discussion forums and message boards are forms of social media, Neil, although possibly a lot less social than others. Anti-social?  Only if you insist! Nevertheless, I am delighted that we are managing to be relatively sociable towards one another this morning. Thank you for taking the trouble to engage with kleines c.


Title: Re: kleines c
Post by: Neil McGowan on January 09, 2013, 09:49:15 am
Oh indeed - and there are also internet forums which are more sociopathic than social, regrettably :(


Title: Re: kleines c
Post by: kleines c on January 09, 2013, 12:21:48 pm
I do have a problem with this particular forum, Neil, so I thought that the best thing would be if I was totally upfront about it, and then the whole membership can comment as they see fit!

I am no musician, Sydney Grew.  The reason we first met, online, was because we all listen to BBC Radio 3, on occasion, and I found my way on to the original BBC message boards to comment about the 2004 Proms.  I was rather intrigued by some of the reactions.  I did not even do Music at school to GCSE level (although I did go to a very musical school).  I even have a terrible singing voice, so I am no tenor nor bass C (German - kleines).

By academic training, I am educated to an extremely high level, but as a natural scientist rather than in the arts, although I obviously have a keen social interest in music, the wider arts and culture in general.  Professionally, I could not be further removed!

The kinds of subject that I can talk about with any authority are precisely the kinds of subject in which you would all be least interested.  In all humility, therefore, I suspect that it is probably better if I do not waste your time here.  Nevertheless, I should like to take this opportunity to wish you all well!  Happy New Year to you all! c.


Title: Re: kleines c
Post by: guest54 on January 09, 2013, 01:05:23 pm
Never mind - let us nevertheless hope that kleines c will be able to drop in now and then to expand upon his already impressive catalogue of bankers.


Title: Re: kleines c
Post by: ahinton on January 09, 2013, 01:22:40 pm
Never mind - let us nevertheless hope that kleines c will be able to drop in now and then to expand upon his already impressive catalogue of bankers.
Bankers? I had thought the he'd introduced himself as a natural scientist!


Title: Re: kleines c
Post by: kleines c on January 09, 2013, 01:24:27 pm
Science never really paid that well, ahinton!  Well guessed, therefore, Sydney Grew!  What else would I be doing in the City of London?  It is not the sort of thing one would be keen to advertise in these austere times.  Nevertheless, I am more than happy to ransom the odd merchant banker (cockney rhyming slang), both online and off!  At least we now all see eye to eye, and it probably helps everyone understand where I might be coming from.

Sydney Grew will have realised that kleines c takes a keen interest in language, philosophy and the social sciences.  I think that it is important to try and understand the assumptions underlying how we think, how we live, how we work and how we play!  In terms of sport, I play pretty well; in terms of music, I play pretty badly.  Of course, that does not mean I cannot appreciate musicians all the more.  It is just that I belong to another world.

I should also explain, as it might help other posters understand me better, that I first posted online (around 2000) on extremely confrontational forums, where moderators insisted that every point be backed up by an appropriate link.  Therefore, a typical 'c' post will make a point, and then provide a link to back it up for reference.  Next point etc.  Of course, if you are not used to this kind of approach, you might find it disturbing.  I am a part of all that I have met.

http://www.sparknotes.com/poetry/tennyson/section4.rhtml

QED

Anyway, the reason why I have gone to such lengths to explain everything this morning, Sydney Grew, is so that you will see my shortcomings.  I can only offer you all my full and unreserved apologies.


Title: Re: kleines c
Post by: Neil McGowan on January 09, 2013, 02:02:53 pm
I've only ever noticed thoughtful and considered posts appearing under your name, kleines. I fear you are agonising overmuch. I know quite a few practicing musicians whose background knowledge of the music they play - and even worse, of the material they neither know nor care about - is precariously little.

And there is a further point. Classical music is NOT for classical musicians - it's for everyone. (Something which makes our mutual friend elsewhere spit venom when she hears it). There are no 'owners', and the proprietorial twaddle one hears - mainly on other sites - is a form of defensive behaviour that illustrates a low intellectual level. For example, there is one crazy wandering the ether who feels that all other composers must be belittled... so that the mighty Handel may shine more brightly?  ???

Let me say this, quite clearly. If those of us who 'do' classical music are just doing it for ourselves, then it's simply a hobby. A performance with no audience is just a rehearsal. An animated, involved, and interested public is vital to the continuance of classical music, and serious orchestras, opera houses, ballet theatres and others realise this most intently. The audience is our SOLE concern. Without them - we cease to exist.

A keen and inquiring mind who has stumbled through a Bach prelude at the piano - with any number of false starts and wrong notes - will have come closer to an understanding of Bach than any cd-collector whose shelves are graced by Tureck, Richter, Egarr, and Pinnick :)


Title: Re: kleines c
Post by: Neil McGowan on January 09, 2013, 02:10:08 pm
One of my main theatre mentors - a very modest man whose own work is mainly in the sphere of 'alternative' theatre - has a powerful phrase he uses when he's watching work in preparation.  I hear his voice in my head even now, when I'm rehearsing...

"For us, Neil. For us. We're over here. We're the audience."

 :)


Title: Re: kleines c
Post by: ahinton on January 09, 2013, 02:15:21 pm
Classical music is NOT for classical musicians - it's for everyone
Hear, hear! And thank God!

There are no 'owners', and the proprietorial twaddle one hears - mainly on other sites - is a form of defensive behaviour that illustrates a low intellectual level.
Well, there is copyright ownership of most music whose creators are alive or have been dead for less than 70 years (sorry - composer speaking here!), but no "ownership" in the sense in which you mean it, of course.

For example, there is one crazy wandering the ether who feels that all other composers must be belittled... so that the mighty Handel may shine more brightly?  ???
I've never encountered this so have no idea who that may be, but such a notion is so bizarre as to give rise to the suspicion that even Handel himself might have been utterly perplexed by it!

Let me say this, quite clearly. If those of us who 'do' classical music are just doing it for ourselves, then it's simply a hobby. A performance with no audience is just a rehearsal. An animated, involved, and interested public is vital to the continuance of classical music, and serious orchestras, opera houses, ballet theatres and others realise this most intently. The audience is our SOLE concern. Without them - we cease to exist.
That is absolutely correct, of course and, speaking as a composer, I tend to side with Copland's view that a piece isn't complete until it's gone through quite a few stages of the creative process including performance and possible subsequent revision if appropriate; that said, it is not always easy, especially in today's cash-strapped climate, to secure those audiences, as the demise and threatened demise of various orchestras alone illustrates.

A keen and inquiring mind who has stumbled through a Bach prelude at the piano - with any number of false starts and wrong notes - will have come closer to an understanding of Bach than any cd-collector whose shelves are graced by Tureck, Richter, Egarr, and Pinnick :)
It's hard to argue with that!


Title: Re: kleines c
Post by: kleines c on January 09, 2013, 02:54:05 pm
I, too, take all your points as valid, Neil.  I suppose what I would say is this.  I am occasionally taken by my partner, family or friends to an opera (I probably would not bother to organise it myself).  You put these productions on, Neil, although I do not actually know whether I have ever experienced any of your work.  When I go to see a performance, I often don't know the first thing about it.  I quite like going in blind, so to speak.  I can always find out more later, if I am interested.  If it makes me think about the world in a slightly different way, that's probably a good thing.  If it makes me feel good, so much the better!  But I probably don't know enough to make a serious contribution to a debate on the subject. So it is sensible to say rather less than more.  Brevity is the soul of wit, init?


Title: Re: kleines c
Post by: Neil McGowan on January 09, 2013, 03:21:59 pm
But I probably don't know enough to make a serious contribution to a debate on the subject.

On the contrary, all you need to 'know' is whether it has communicated something to you... or not?  :) 

In essence, it's the sole criterion.


Title: Re: kleines c
Post by: kleines c on January 09, 2013, 04:10:12 pm
If I may address your final question directly, Neil:

But I probably don't know enough to make a serious contribution to a debate on the subject.

On the contrary, all you need to 'know' is whether it has communicated something to you... or not?  :) 

In essence, it's the sole criterion.

Thank you very much indeed for the clarification.  I can only offer my full and unreserved apologies.  I suspect that this is quite enough from kleines c, Sydney Grew.