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Having studied Albion's magnificent listings of Holbrooke's compositions on Wikipedia, would I be correct in saying that the following works are extant and unrecorded:

Symphony “Les Hommages”
Symphony No.1 “Homage to E.A. Poe” for soloists, chorus and orchestra
Symphony No.2 “Apollo and the Seaman” for male chorus and orchestra
Symphony No.3 “Ships”
Symphony No.5 “Wild Wales” for brass band
Symphony No.6 “Old England” for military band
Symphony No.7 “Al Aaraaf” for strings
Symphony No.8 “Dance Symphony” for piano and orchestra
Symphonietta “The Sleeper” for wind and brass
Piano Concerto No.2 “L’Orient”
Violin Concerto “The Grasshopper”
Double Concerto for Clarinet, Bassoon and Orchestra “Tamerlane”
Quadruple Concerto for Flute, Clarinet, Cor Anglais, Bassoon and Orchestra
Dance Suite for piano and small orchestra
Tragic March for Horn and Orchestra
Variations on “Auld Lang Syne” for orchestra
Fantasie “The Wild Fowl” for orchestra
Suite “Dreamland” for orchestra
Suite “Bogey Beasts” for orchestra
“Cambrian Suite” for orchestra
“Hymn to Caridwen” for orchestra
Ballet “The Masque of the Red Death”
Ballet “The Moth and the Flame”
Ballet Suite “Pierrot”
Ballet Music “Bronwen”
Imperial March for orchestra
Suite No.1 for string orchestra
Suite No.2 for string orchestra
“Caradoc’s Dream” for string orchestra
National March for chorus and orchestra
“Queen Mab” for chorus and orchestra

That's quite enough to cover plenty of well-filled CDs ;D! And we could use better recordings of the symphonic poems that were recorded by Marco Polo as well! I thought that the orchestral parts were lost for Symphony no. 8-were they discovered recently?

Yes, as far as I know these are still extant either as scores or parts. The Fantasie Dylan is the same work as the Prelude Dylan (Holbrooke used both descriptions at different times) which was recorded by Marco Polo - in fact the actual Prelude to the opera itself is comparatively brief. We also need a first-class recording of The Bells.

 :)


Definitely! Those renditions were neither models of orchestral virtuosity nor of acoustic subtlety.

 :P


No, all that appears to exist is a two-piano score held at Cambridge University Library - this manuscript also provides an alternative designation of the work as "Piano Concerto No.3".

 :(

Thanks, John :). I though Colin's list also denoted that the orchestral parts for the pieces he listed are extant, since he is an orchestral kind of person ;D!

"...an orchestral sort of person" ;D ;D ;D

You could say that not unfairly ;D It can be quite a small orchestra.....and it can be accompanying a singer or a choir or a solo instrument :) I can even appreciate some unaccompanied choral music :)

Opera ???  Yes...IF it was written by Wagner or Vaughan Williams......otherwise no.

Chamber or instrumental or songs.....no :( :(

Life is just too short. I made my mind up long decades ago to focus my musical interests on 19th-20th century orchestral music and within that area to explore as widely as possible. My decision....my loss....regrets ??? No.

No need to feel bad for your likes and dislikes, Colin :). And I'm sorry if my comment offended you in any way :-[! As for me, I enjoy much chamber and solo piano music, but just not as much as orchestral music. As for opera, unaccompanied choral music, art songs, and even solo organ music-I'm afraid that I've missed the boat there :(...But we're way off-topic ;D!

Wagner or Vaughan Williams for opera is a very individual sort of taste, but one I could sympathise with. I love the VW operas, especially 'Hugh the Drover', 'Sir John in Love' and 'The Pilgrim's Progress'.

I must admit I love those 'Bronwen' excerpts & all the bits & pieces on the Marco Polo cd. Yet Wagner bores me stiff! Terrible,isn't?! Wagner v Holbrooke? I should be ashamed of myself! :-[ ;D
I do enjoy the Marco Polo cds,actually. The orchestra seems to chug along & there is that wierd,boxy,almost 'trade mark',Marco Polo acoustic;but there is a certain pioneering determination there (the conductor,perhaps) which got my enthusiasm for Holbrooke going & I'm grateful for that!
Mind you,it's pretty awful,really! ;D

Remember the Marco Polo cd of Bantock's Hebridean Symphony? I remember the shock of hearing the Hyperion recording. The brass just blazed out. It was like hearing a completely different work. Which is interesting,because one of the things I enjoy about Holbrooke's music,even in a rather ramshackle work like 'The Pit & the Pendulum',is his use of the brass. And being from Wales,another reason why I would love to hear his Fifth symphony!

Incidentally,while I am of the opinion that life is far too short to listen to only one genre of music;I can't help feeling that the reason why Dundonnell knows far more about orchestral music than I ever will is due entirely to his decision to concentrate on one particular area!

PS: I like VW's operatic efforts better than Wagner's,too! :o ;D
 

You are reinforcing the point that it is so sad that unfamiliar repertoire is often committed to disc by the smaller companies using orchestras totally unaccustomed to the idiom and keen and enthusiastic but not particularly inspired conductors and recorded on the cheap. The result is a recording which may give one some idea of the nature of a work but cannot reveal just how good it could sound if performed with more polish and panache.

It its early days and, to some extent, still today Marco Polo/Naxos used Eastern European/Russian orchestras who struggled with such repertoire-the Havergal Brian 2nd is one example but, most notoriously, in my opinion, the set of Malipiero symphonies recorded by the Moscow Symphony Orchestra :(

It is a testimony to the rising standards of orchestral playing across the world that this is getting less of an issue these days. There was a time when, again for example, I would have doubted the capacity of the National Symphony Orchestra of Ireland to play a piece to its full potential but it is now a first-class band. So too all the British orchestras. Give a professional orchestra a score and they can now virtually sight-read it onto disc ;D

It is still however remarkable how a conductor who really believes in a piece can transform it. That was Beecham's great genius..so too Sir Adrian Boult. There are young conductors around who can do that but instead they are asked to conduct yet another performance of a Mahler symphony ::)

Your final point is, of course, also quite correct :) I DO have a very wide knowledge of the orchestral music of the last century but-by definition it is "wide" rather than "deep". I cannot discuss comparative versions of a particular composition in the way that others here and elsewhere are capable. I rely on the critics in IRR or reputable reference books for that. That is just the way it is ;D As I said, I have no regrets :)

I will always be grateful to Marco Polo for recording the Holbrooke at all: I remember a time when practically nothing had ever been done and I was desperate to hear some. Same with the Havergal Brian. Companies like Dutton have really raised the standard, I think, which makes me so glad about them doing Havergal Brian, who really, really needs the best performers to shine. Mind, the Marco Polo Gothic was a pretty amazing achievement at the time.

You are perfectly correct to commend Marco Polo for its enterprise :) The company went where virtually no other company had gone in seeking out obscure repertoire.

And-in relation to Eastern European orchestras-the Gothic recording WAS a triumph :) :)

Indeed! I've been knocking the Marco Polo Gothic on the gmg HB thread,but in all fairness,it was a tremendous achievement!
Having said that,I'm afraid I won't be playing it much!!

Nowadays,everyone seems to find allot of reasons to rubbish those Marco Polo releases,but I can vividly recall the excitement of leafing through the late lamented Gramophone (still around,but not as we knew it!) for their ad,wondering,with bated breath,what esoteric fare they had dug out for our delectation? In their own way,they built up a momentum for the glories that were to follow!
And,who knows? Maybe an obscure East European orchestra could have given us some Daniel Jones symphonies,boxy acoustics & all?! I'm sure I would have coped!

Actually,if you compare their Holbrooke cds to their releases of Bantock & Cyril Scott,they probably weren't too bad. In the case of the Scott release,if I hadn't heard the Lyrita recordings I probably wouldn't have bothered again....or at least,not for a while. Conversely,the Holbrooke cds had me gagging for more! I even sent a 'fan letter' to Gwydion Brooke,who sent me a very nice letter back & a free Holbrooke Lp! I was SO chuffed!
  Ironically,it was the Hyperion cd of his First Piano Concerto that disappointed me. Although,that was because of the music itself. In my opinion (and some others,apparently) not one of his most characteristic works! In fact,if that had been my first experience of Holbrooke I might not have felt quite as enthusiastic!! ;D

Again....agree completely :) :)  Whatever view you may have of the Marco Polo Gothic the joy of actually hearing the work on cd for the first time will never leave me :)

The Holbrooke Piano Concerto No.1 is amongst his weakest works in my opinion. Now....if Hyperion were to run a "Romantic Symphonies" series to match their Piano. Violin. Cello series we might actually get to hear more of the Holbrooke symphonies ;D They wouldn't even need to be paying the soloist's fee.

A little more information about the "Illuminated Symphony" - Holbrooke's concentrated combination of poetry and music:

Well that's quite a remarkable thing and something it would be very interesting to see. I was particularly interested to see not only the inclusion of a Euphonium alongside the Tuba but two ad-lib Sarrusophones an instrument I have only ever come across in the orchestral scores of Sorabji where (in the 2nd Symphony 'Jami') one is placed alongside the contrabassoon. I wonder what their role in the "Illuminated Symphony" may have been? Their inclusion under "Brass" suggests they where perhaps meant to double the Tuba and Euphonium.

Do you have the score Stanley?

Here at the International Score Library:

http://imslp.org/wiki/Symphony_No.2_%28%27Apollo_and_the_Seaman%27%29,_Op.51_%28Holbrooke,_Joseph%29 (http://imslp.org/wiki/Symphony_No.2_%28%27Apollo_and_the_Seaman%27%29,_Op.51_%28Holbrooke,_Joseph%29)

A review of a performance of Holbrooke's Illuminated Symphony, from the Spectator of January the twenty-fifth, 1908. I wonder who "C.L.G." was?

(http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp233/Kerfoops/IlluSym_zps72586e59.jpg~original)

P.S. Error in image size now fixed by tinkering with photobucket options . . .

I have always preferred Holbrooke's chamber music to the orchestral scores I have heard. There was a nice CD of his chamber music on Marco Polo.

Thanks for this fascinating review. The whole idea of throwing the text onto a screen was clearly a bit of a disaster, but most interesting is the quotation from Ernest Newman regarding a possible earlier incarnation of at least some of the music.

Holbrooke was an inveterate re-user and regularly retitled or restructured several of his works - The Skeleton in Armour (Longfellow) became The Viking and later still (1941) was renamed The Corsair (Byron), whilst music from the opera-ballet The Wizard makes up the bulk of the later fantasie The Pit and the Pendulum (Poe). In the earliest lists (1904) of his works The Masque of the Red Death is described as an orchestral poem, but by 1913 it had become a ballet, The Red Masque.

Whatever it's literary origins, Apollo is certainly a work which I'd say richly deserves a professional recording.

 :)

Bogey Beasts, Op.89a was a 1923 collaboration between Holbrooke and his friend the artist/ poet Sidney Sime (1867-1941) dealing with fantastical, imaginary creatures (with more than a hint of satire). Here is an excellent illustrated recitation-performance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtsWxggYVw4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtsWxggYVw4)

and here is the piano score (Holbrooke subsequently made a shorter orchestral suite):

https://imslp.org/wiki/Bogey_Beasts,_Op.89a_(Holbrooke,_Joseph) (https://imslp.org/wiki/Bogey_Beasts,_Op.89a_(Holbrooke,_Joseph))

 :)

Marco Polo's Adriano Malipiero symphonic cycle has often been berated by many musical critics. Perhaps the axiom holds that if something is repeated often enough, it becomes the accepted view. It would be a tragedy if this discouraged anyone from listening to the music.
If it were not for this cycle, I would never have developed an interest in Malipiero's fine music and he was quite prolific.
While the performances may lack sparkle and pzazz, I think they may have been reflective of Malipiero's personna,he was certainly no Respighi. I wish I could understand what was "wrong" with the cycle other than the "boxed" Marco Polo audio. I hope I am not being snarky by asking for performances/conductors who have done better by comparison?

Some Holbrooke items:

Annabel Lee, Op.41b

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFzQ5bxqCuE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFzQ5bxqCuE)

Apollo and the Seaman, Op.51 (extract) - does anybody know anything more about this recording? It is from Section VI (The Rebuke) and begins at the Maestoso con moto seven bars before figure 73, ending at figure 78 (pages 128-133 in the full score, pages 55-58 in the piano reduction).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0ut-QJBx5U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0ut-QJBx5U)

Three Dramatic Songs, Op.69

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZJIbZHC4Vw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZJIbZHC4Vw)


 :)

Martin Walsh is now currently working on a midi realisation of Holbrooke's "Illuminated Symphony" Apollo and the Seaman , Op.51 (1907), and has so far completed the first two parts (of four), which he has uploaded to Youtube:

Part 1 (Apollos's Coming; The Rumour; The Ship): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eZp3YbJ-Tc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eZp3YbJ-Tc)

Part 2 (The Tidings): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjWS227_7pw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjWS227_7pw)

 :)

Martin's midi "realisation" of Apollo and the Seaman (the first two parts so far) is fascinating and it would be wonderful to think that he would be able to complete the whole score in this clever way, although it is difficult to imagine what the male chorus included in the last section (The Embarkation) will sound like...

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/63/a2/c8/63a2c8a553da90f15e23791c93779ec0.jpg)

...I just love this picture.

It's best to ignore the abstruse poem by Herbert Trench which the score allegedly "mirrors" -

(https://imgc.eximg.jp/i=https%253A%252F%252Fs.eximg.jp%252Fexnews%252Ffeed%252FKarapaia%252FKarapaia_52190291_2.jpg,quality=70,type=jpg)

The text is included in both the full and the vocal scores:

https://imslp.org/wiki/Symphony_No.2%2C_Op.51_(Holbrooke%2C_Joseph) (https://imslp.org/wiki/Symphony_No.2%2C_Op.51_(Holbrooke%2C_Joseph))

 ;)

My word, that must be a labour of love. It takes long enough to prepare a piece for a normal-sized orchestra so the number of hours Martin Walsh must have spent to get even this far with such a garganutan score is hard to grasp. I do hope he finishes it, not only for itself but also so that it can be used in some way to promote a performance and recording of the piece.

Indeed! It's hard to think of a more challenging project: personally, I would not know where to begin. Fully professional commercial recordings of Apollo and the Seaman, The Bells (the 1978 John Poole broadcast is in the British and Irish Music Archive) and Queen Mab (all in full score at IMSLP) should have been undertaken years ago and would put Holbrooke's legacy in quite a different light. As it is, there are the invaluable discs from CPO, Dutton and Hyperion to be going on with...

 :)

Don't be alarmed that the dreaded "edited by Admin" appears on posts in this thread. This was merely to add a space between Holbrooke's name and his dates in the title...

 ::)

...no content has been changed whatsoever.

 :)

Gareth Vaughan, a member of this forum, is the expert on Holbrooke and has worked tirelessly to both preserve and promote the composer's music. Towards the end of his life, Holbrooke wrote an unpublished autobiography - now that would be interesting to say the least, given his supreme talent for invective...

(https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/librarian-dog-picture-id469090794?k=6&m=469090794&s=170667a&w=0&h=nFxvLDxeUhQz49ocj2Ws1RN6oWrZRH3xN3SpRbxoIuo=)

 :o

For anyone new to Holbrooke and wanting to explore his orchestral music, I can strongly recommend the three CPO discs conducted by Howard Griffiths:

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzk4MDc5OC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI1NTd9)

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODE4OTA2Ni4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0NzkxMzE0MjR9)

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODYxNzg3My4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2MTE1ODcyMDB9)

 ;D

Unfortunately, two other splendid discs on Dutton appear to have been deleted (I think "out of stock" is a euphemism):

The Pit and the Pendulum, Symphony No.4, Cello Concerto, Pandora

https://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=CDLX7251 (https://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=CDLX7251)

Aucassin and Nicolette, Saxophone Concerto

https://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=CDLX7277 (https://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=CDLX7277)

 :(

I have all these and I agree with Albion's recommendation. Holbrooke is another of those composers who inhabits an entirely personal sound world -- and an absorbing and attractive one it is too.

The first disc seems to have totally vanished - nothing on amazon, not even a download option, but maybe it'll pop up elsewhere.

 ???

There are few copies of the second disc left on amazon:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Aucassin-Nicolette-Joseph-Holbrooke/dp/B005ZNLYOI/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=holbrooke+dutton&qid=1620376898&s=music&sr=1-1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Aucassin-Nicolette-Joseph-Holbrooke/dp/B005ZNLYOI/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=holbrooke+dutton&qid=1620376898&s=music&sr=1-1)

It is also available as a download:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Joseph-Holbrooke-Saxophone-Concerto-Richard/dp/B0070M7B6W/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=holbrooke+dutton&qid=1620376402&s=dmusic&sr=1-2 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Joseph-Holbrooke-Saxophone-Concerto-Richard/dp/B0070M7B6W/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=holbrooke+dutton&qid=1620376402&s=dmusic&sr=1-2)

On the download page note the prices being asked for other copies of the actual CD - Holbrooke is wonderful, but are these sellers compos mentis?

 :o :o :o

The second disk can also be purchased from Presto Classical.

Thanks, Gareth! Yep, it's "in stock" -

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8003709--holbrooke-aucassin-nicolette-ballet-music-saxophone-concerto (https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8003709--holbrooke-aucassin-nicolette-ballet-music-saxophone-concerto)

The other disc with Symphony No.4 and the Cello Concerto is a real gem, though, and well worth tracking down...

 :)

Is there any chance that this might be transcribed and published?

 :o

In my email to CPO asking them to continue recording Cipriani Potter I also pressed the cause of Holbrooke's

Les Hommages (1900-04)
Queen Mab (1902)
The Bells (1903)
Apollo and the Seaman (1907)
Dramatic choral symphony Homage to E.A. Poe (1902-08)
Piano Concerto No.2 L'Orient (1920-28)

You never know! By my calculation these would easily fill another couple of discs...

 ;D

The two Marco Polo cds of his orchestral music,are still up there with my favourite and most played Holbrooke cds. Despite some of the ribbing they get in some quarters. I like the selection of music played on the two cds. The musicianship,while a tad rough and ragged at times,has a nice feel of commitment from the performers. There is also a nice feeling of pioneering zeal. In fact,I like the recordings very much,despite their,obvious,shortcomings. The performance of Byron is the main disappointment,for me. I quite enjoy listening to it;but it just comes over as flabby and,almost as if they were beginning to get bored! Gareth will know more!! The other cd has a rather short playing time;and you'd think they could have included an appropriate filler? Someone suggested The Wild Fowl! Is that still extant? But I do enjoy the cd. A bit of a raggedy band,but I feel that sense of pioneering zeal;and it's one of my favourite Holbrooke cds. I have to say,I just love the Dylan Prelude. Nothing like Wagner. I hear an astringency in the more stormy,turbulent moments,which,actually,make me think of late Sibelius,at times. I would love to hear it with a really first rate orchestra! Also,I do like the choice of Sidney Sime for the artwork. Very appropriate,when you consider that he was a friend of Holbrooke's and,like Joseph,a fellow devotee of Edgar Allan Poe. Of course,the recordings of some of these works on Cpo and that Lyrita cd,are smoother and sonically superior. But I like the rough and tumble at times!! And those Marco Polo cds were my introduction to this music. I even wrote a fan letter to Gwydion Brooke after hearing the first one;and got a very nice letter and free Holbrooke Lp in return! :)
Those Cpo recordings are superb,of course! Both Dutton cd's are excellent. Although the cd of Aucassin and Nicolette suffers from a somewhat dry acoustic. Although,it doesn't bother me! :)

I completely agree about the recording of Byron: the chorus simply hadn't got to grips with the language and the performance is flaccid to say the least!

 ::)

Yes, The Wild Fowl is extant and was published in full-score...

 :)

Good! :) The recording of Byron is by far the worst performance on those cds,to my ears! Albeit,reading between the lines (as it were) there is a poignancy to the piece,which I found rather moving,in lieu of Holbrooke's subsequent descent into obscurity and neglect! I should point out! I would not recommend those Marco Polo recordings to anyone coming new to Holbrooke!! :o ;D
For pioneering zeal,I suppose I should put in a word for the Symposium cd of 78rpm recordings of Holbrooke. I quite enjoy that one! Why they even bothered to record that extract from the Symphony No 3 I don't know?! ::) ;D The stand out for me is that lady (I forget who?) singing the Cradle Song* from Bronwen.

* Dorothy Vane!

Remember when York Bowen was just a name,too? For some reason I often think of Yorkie Bars,when I see his name?! Not a bad name association,I would think?! Haven't had one for years!

Neither do I! It certainly did not show the work (magnificently recorded by Howard Griffiths) in its best light, indicating some sort of shanty-fest.

 ::)

The complete score is much better balanced when heard as a whole.

 :)

Gareth reckons four - how fantastic would that be?

 ;D

There is some discourse regarding Holbrooke's The Bells (1903) in another thread -

http://artmusic.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,2975.msg38405.html#msg38405 (http://artmusic.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,2975.msg38405.html#msg38405)

 :)

I listened to the 1978 performance in the British and Irish Music folder of Holbrooke’s The Bells, as a response to some discourse in another thread (identified by Albion above) about the relative merits of this and Rachmaninov’s settings. First, it’s important to realise that while Holbrooke was setting Poe, Rachmaninov was setting a translation into Russian by symbolist poet Konstantin Balmont and that this translation is a very free one. I would emphasise that this is an initial response to one hearing (while reading along with the full score).

The aims of Holbrooke and Rachmaninov were different: Rachmaninov set out to write a choral symphony and he apparently referred to it as such and, unofficially, as his ‘third symphony’ (before he wrote an actual third symphony in 1936). Holbrooke appears to have set out to write a setting of the poem in one, rather than four, movements. There are wonderful and, indeed, masterful passages in Holbrooke’s setting. It must be the very devil to sing – I don’t know who the chorus master was for that performance but he did a splendid job! It’s atmospheric, certainly, and captures the moods of Poe’s weird poem extraordinarily well. Moreover, it’s technically assured in its writing for the huge orchestra Holbrooke employed (somewhat reduced in this performance).  The musical language is of its time and, indeed, there are one or two harmonic progressions that sound like Rachmaninov; of course, I’m not suggesting that there was any conscious imitation of styles – apart from anything else, Holbrook’s work dates from 1903 and Rachmaninov’s from ten years later. There are also one or two echoes of Coleridge-Taylor’s sumptuous harmonies but, on the whole, Holbrooke’s manner is his own, albeit in the lingua franca of his time.

However, I think Holbrooke fell between two stools. The Prelude is far too long. As Ernest Newman points out in an accompanying note, it “passes in review almost all of the leading themes of the choral portion of the work.” If all he’d wanted to do was to set the poem, he seriously unbalances the piece by this ten-minute introduction. It’s almost as if he was torn between writing another symphonic poem along the lines of his previous Poe-inspired works in that form, The Raven, Ulalume and The Masque of the Red Death, and a choral setting of this poem. Indeed, the Prelude might have been expanded by another five minutes and turned into such a symphonic poem – there’s plenty of material there to sustain one. But after such a long preamble, one is almost surprised by the entry of the chorus. Some of the linking passages (between Poe’s verses) are also on the prolix side, which tends to reinforce the apparent dichotomy. Maybe Holbrooke hadn’t learned that most difficult compositional skill, the art of pruning back one’s inspiration! It’s hard to ditch passages that may be attractive but which ultimately unbalance the overall structure of a piece.

In summary, then, Holbrooke’s is a magnificent effort but it’s neither fish, fowl nor good red herring: he should have made up his mind whether he wanted to compose a choral setting or a symphonic poem, rather than producing something that sits uncomfortably between the two.

I have to nail my colours to the mast (as opposed to the fence!) and opine that while Holbrooke was gifted and more than just competent, Rachmaninov was a genius! That’s not to say that Holbrooke’s setting is not still very worthy of a modern recording – it most certainly is.

I stand by to be vilified by the Holbrookeistas!

Thanks for a really great and detailed post, Lionel - I'd expect nothing less!

 ;)

Yes, I would concur that in no way could Holbrooke be bracketed with Rachmaninov in terms of his overall achievement or level of "gift", "talent" or "genius". But, as you quite rightly and diplomatically say, Holbrooke's setting certainly deserves a top-flight modern recording, complete with stier horn in B, soprano concertina (miked-up, lol), mushroom bells, two grand pianos and celesta!

 :)

I agree that the extensive Prelude is a miscalculation - either it stands on its own or it effectively "plays its hand" too freely: when you come to the later choral sections the sense of déjà vu is just too overwhelming!

 :o

Nevertheless, I truly love it for it's sheer madness and oddity, especially some of the vocal writing and in particular the orchestration. As such an oddity, it strikes a chord (hmmm, notes to self: must book that next therapy session; perhaps I should write booklet-notes for CPO). It must have hit the 1906 Birmingham Festival audience with one heck of a big welly after the comparative sanity of Elgar's The Kingdom and Bantock's Omar Khayyam. But then, I always love the under-dog. Why else would I keep blathering on about Cowen, lol...

(https://aws.vdkimg.com/film/1/2/8/8/128898_backdrop_scale_600x315.jpg)

 ::)

Do not fear: "Vilification" ain't in my vocabulary - four syllabubs is usually my limit these days...

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bf/84/21/bf842166fa814f6f48b371e65c483fb0.jpg)

...mmmmmm, posh or what?

(https://museumsvictoria.com.au/railways/images/resources/large/MM070307.jpg)

 ;D

It certainly does. How you can mount a performance without the concertina part is beyond me - it is very important to the orchestral texture and quite exposed in many places. I would argue that the same goes for the mushroom bells, which have a very special timbre. You might get away with leaving out the steer horn, which admittedly doesn't have much to do (or substituting another brass instrument), but on the other hand Josef knew very well the sort of sounds he wanted to hear and how to produce them as he was a masterly orchestrator: it's there for a purpose. He didn't simply throw all these instruments together for the hell of it. No - like Richard Strauss, he knew what he was doing when it came to the orchestra; one wouldn't perform "An Alpine Symphony" without the thunder machine, so why be so cavalier about omitting instruments called for in "The Bells"?

Yes, that's my thinking exactly. It's not that ten minutes is too long per se -- consider the length of some of Wagner's preludes, and that's the point; had it been the prelude to a three-hour music-drama it would have been fine but it takes up nearly a third of the work's playing time which is disproportionate.


I had the advantage of reading the full score as the work progressed and so I could insert the missing instruments with my mind's ear, as it were, but I certainly agree that just leaving them out was cavalier in the extreme. I'd like to think that if Howard Griffiths (or any other Holbrooke enthusiast) chooses to make a recording of the piece, then the comissioning company would not be so cheese-paring as the BBC was in 1978.

Better book your next Specsavers appointment...

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3YfSy_DUcgM/W1EJIKlo5qI/AAAAAAAAsYE/fXO-mWrYXB0tI5evq46v09SnyLL-2ze7QCLcBGAs/s1600/Googly-Eyes.jpg)


On reflection, Norman Del Mar was simultaneously draining the BBC's annual budget with his fantastic recording of Bantock's complete Omar Khayyam...

(https://th.bing.com/th/id/R41e39479b4b69c4745e16b6a94d992da?rik=xAe%2bylKFxw6%2bOA&pid=ImgRaw)


It certainly is! Its very extravagance (a la "Apollo and the Seaman" and "The Children of Don") indicates to me that Holbrooke was essentially a virtuosic colourist, as Elgar, Debussy, Richard Strauss and Havergal Brian were. He thought of the orchestra almost as if it was a child's dream art set: ten shades of brown, fifteen shades of red, twelve shades of blue, fifty shades of grey, lol...

(https://th.bing.com/th/id/Rf50b4a6b283b6bd6725a62d7e3041587?rik=hfXmQmdPnk%2bxKw&riu=http%3a%2f%2fmembers.tripod.com%2fson_of_insanity%2forch.jpg&ehk=Oz%2b2eHtB60se7e1AnWwQPfNQKm16pDQMg7Wic3Valgw%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw)

 :)

They do keep writing to say I'm overdue for my eye test!

:o Dorothy did have a lot to put up with, then!

Aye, she must have been a real trouper! Joe's evident insanity (pestering Elgar, pestering Newman, pestering Bantock, pestering the Press, in fact pestering just about everybody) eventually took its toll, as this recently-unearthed (colourified by new-fangled digital wotsits) photograph clearly shows...

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4c/c4/4d/4cc44d11e96f1ec9164bc3fd46c8e2fb.jpg)

 ::)

Nevertheless, I still love his music.

 ;)

Hey, wouldn't that colander be great in a percussion section...?

 ;D

I think Spike Jones and His City Slickers already dd that...  ;)
(https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/default/phone-case/iphone10/images/artworkimages/medium/1/spike-jones-and-his-city-slickers-performing-in-grand-forks-nd-the-harrington-collection.jpg?&targetx=0&targety=-137&imagewidth=646&imageheight=657&modelwidth=646&modelheight=382&backgroundcolor=B0B0B0&orientation=1)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-yjeCZcTrHCk/VKivN93pjvI/AAAAAAAAFHU/zEDsUa-G_f4/s1600/spike_ruth%2B(1).jpg)

Holbrooke was a true pioneer of the "kitchen-sink department"...

(http://www.mochacasa.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Dirty-dishes.jpg)

 :D

Gareth, was The Bells the largest orchestra that Holbrooke ever used - is it his Gothic?

(https://www.cheshire-today.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Prom-4.-Credit-BBC-Chris-Christodoulou-61-Copy-759x499.jpg)

 :o

I was somewhere in the audience on this thrilling occasion way back in July 2011.

 :)

I suspect it is, although Dylan gives the number of concertinas called for in that opera as "unlimited"! I do not jest.

How fantastically bonkers and yet how irresistibly fabulous at the same time!

(https://p1.liveauctioneers.com/306/23593/8418540_1_x.jpg?auto=webp&format=pjpg&quality=50)

X

(https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.2190_N4NdM4-XkWwmhmJmwAAAA?pid=ImgDet&rs=1)

 ;D

Yes - wonderful, isn't it? Josef loved his squeezeboxes!!! Shades of the music hall, no doubt - which was, of course, a not insignificant influence on his music.

Which also accounts for the unusually-early element of cheeky syncopation in many of his melodies...

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cb/57/0b/cb570bc0321320ec0bbb86a1407c8176.jpg)

Almost reminiscent of Louis Gottschalk (1829-1869) at times.

 ;)

Is it the finale of his Piano Quartet, Op.21 that springs most readily to mind?

 ???

And the deliciously louche (and ever so slightly vulgar) harmonies to be found here and there, notably in the piano concerto.

How shocking to one of my refined and delicate sensibilities: away with Holbrooke and all his diabolical and naughty corrupting works!!!

 :o

 ;D

And the band played "Believe it if you like"...

But every word of it is true!

(https://th.bing.com/th/id/R33d7c9abee74f61ae0bc5e4919c39114?rik=f64ptnFIaUykoQ&pid=ImgRaw)

Hang on a mo, isn't that Lady Frederica circa 1895? I always thought that moustache was straight out of the property-box at Covent Garden...

 ;)

Who's "Joseph Holbrooke" by the way? Never even heard of the chap meself...

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c9/5c/c3/c95cc35f65fb23ae5a1154945866ebf1.png)

...oh, now I remember, what a fantastic trio! Their rendition of Ulalume on guitar, double bass and drums was something to marvel at, though one needed to pay a visit to Florrie first in order to appreciate their true artistry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Holbrooke_(band) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Holbrooke_(band))

 :)

A fine figure of a woman, that!

Wot? No concertinas?  :o

Not even a funeral kazoo...

(https://i2.wp.com/bitsandpieces.us/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Funeral-Kazoo.jpg?fit=575%2C575)

"Oooo-laah-looooooom."

 :'(

However, I think there was one in the original scoring of Bronwen's Funeral March...

 :D

Maybe it is a bit too long;but it's still one of my favourite Holbrooke compositions. It's the sort of piece I would kill to hear with a world class orchestra. Unfortunately,I won't!! :( ;D Hear,I mean! Not kill! (Although,my millionaire landlord had better keep away from dark,lonely alleyways,just in case?!! :o ;D) It's also the kind of piece that shows how cruel the "Cockney Wagner" jibe was. In fact,my first impression was that the main influences were Russian or even French? Or a bit of both? Particularly,the former! I think it is a wonderful piece of music. It builds up to a thrilling climax. The Slovak lot do quite a nice job of it,to my ears. Think! It could have been worse? It could have been the Plovdiv Philharmonic?! :o As to the choral work that follows?!! (What choral work? Has the Prelude finished yet?!! ;D) I prefer it to the Rachmaninov;and I think Holbrooke captures the atmosphere of Poe's work more effectively than Rachmaninov. That said,as a commmited Holbrooke fan (I'm typing this inside a padded cell,by the way!) I agree with Lionel,that Rachmaninov's "one wot he wrote" (albeit,long hairy legs as opposed to short fat ones!! :o ;D) is,indisputably,the finer work! That said,they are both enjoyable works and should be enjoyed on their own terms. Although Eric Morecambe might have disagreed?!!

Exactly. You don't have to rank them or pit them against one another, you can listen to both and enjoy both. It's just a shame that we don't have a modern vesrion of the Holbrooke to listen to!  I think Eric Morecambe (bless his sainted memory) is past caring.

Good to see you back, cilgwyn. I missed you over the weekend!

I was just thinking of your observation about the length of the Prelude! ("What do you think of it so far?!!") Well,despite the jibe about a Cockney Wagner,and some of the unenthusiastic posts I've read about Holbrooke,at a rival forum (not that one!) I would say it's definitely not rubbish! Funnily enough mentioning Eric Morecambe! I'm really not sure he would have enjoyed that kind of music?! But,then again,you never know?!! Apparently Rued Langgaard (often referred to as Denmark's answer to Havergal Brian) is one of Dame Edna Everage's favourite composers! Now I don't know whether that's a good thing or bad?!! :-\ ::) Not being a fan,myself! (Eric & Ernie,yes!)

http://langgaard.dk/intro/edna.htm (http://langgaard.dk/intro/edna.htm)

If you ever do decide to sample Rued Langgaard,I would,thoroughly,recommend the Chandos cd of symphonies 4,5 & 6 as an introduction! I'm sure you've got piles of other interesting music to listen to first,though!! ;D :) Hope your gout isn't troubling you at the moment!

You'll be pleased to know I have no intention of speculating,as to whether,whether Tommy Cooper would have enjoyed Joseph Holbrooke!!

Spoken like a true AMF member...

(http://images.myshared.ru/7/815585/slide_3.jpg)

...just add "musical tastes" to round out the picture.

 :)

Thank you, it's fine as long as I keep taking the tablets!


Oh what a shame! I adore Tommy Cooper and I would be fascinated to know whether you think he'd have had an opinion about Holbrooke (or, indeed, about anything else). Just like that!

Seriously, I recall times when my old dad and I would watch Tommy on telly, and neither of us could speak (if fact, we could barely breathe) so convulsed were we with laughter, the tears rolling down our cheeks. The good old days, eh? I'm tittering now, just thinking about him...

Speaking of Holbrooke......I mean Tommy Cooper! :o ;D What is,generally regarded as his best tv series,has recently been released on Dvd,by Network (Tommy Cooper the complete LWT Series). I've been waiting for the price to drop & a cheap s/h copy. Time's being hard! :( It's still my off-air Video tapes (my video recorder still works!) for now!

And back to Holbrooke! Just like that!! ;D

Hmmm, nice try.

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/8b/3b/aa/8b3baa9e4cedebbd0b4bcf4a14c12c54.jpg)

 ::)

Cilgwyn! Cilgwyn!!

(https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.UcY0sP1IQGxdGxuPgRMDDQHaE8?pid=ImgDet&rs=1)

 :D

I must look out for that... A man went to the doctor. He said, "Doctor, I've broken my arm in three places." And the doctor said, "Don't go there, then!"

(https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/siteassets/home/visit/blue-plaques/find-a-plaque/blue-plaques-a-e/tommy-cooper.jpg?maxwidth=580&mode=none&scale=downscale&quality=60&anchor=&WebsiteVersion=20210430060115)

JOSEPH HOLBROOKE

(https://img.discogs.com/jJvs0qhUU31SMiCr2VazcW9_Y7Q=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/A-1950143-1419767561-7032.jpeg.jpg)

TOMMY COOPER

'Scuse my incontinent mirth!  Gareth, look away now.

 :o

Concertinas, stier-horn in B, two grand pianos - c'mon BBC/ CPO/ anyone: Holbrooke costs but Holbrooke is worth it!

 :D

Very funny! ;D I laughed out loud when I read it! Seeing his face helped (though it is a funny joke!). Holbrooke looks like the kind of audience every comedian dread's in that photo! He liked the music hall,though!
The LWT series I refer to is the one that ITV 4 have been repeating (Tommy Cooper - The Complete LWT Series). I got this from The British Comedy Guide:

"This classic sketch series features a veritable galaxy of guest stars: Ted Ray, Stubby Kaye, Richard Briers, Arthur Lowe, Joan Greenwood, Bernard Cribbins, Patrick Cargill, Tricia Noble, Vincent Price, Michael Bentine, Ronnie Barker, Thora Hird, Diana Dors, Ronnie Corbett, Liz Fraser and Eric Sykes. This release contains all thirteen episodes, complete and uncut".

I'm sure if Joseph Holbrooke had been around to watch the show,he'd have been,literally,crying with laughter!  (Well I'm just trying not to derail the thread,Albion! ::) ;D) I think the series shows Tommy Cooper at his best.  The guests are great! I remember watching the tapes (I made) with my father!

I must track it down. My father and I used to watch him together and cry with laughter too, while my mother looked on with a totally straight face, saying, "I don't know what you both find so funny. He's just silly, that's all." I don't think she realised that was the point! Not to say my mother didn't have a sense of humour: she did, but it wasn't the same as ours! ;D

And why not, pray? That's what AMF's about - tangential and random posts about music and life in general (bacon 'n' all) with the odd tit-bit of brain-fodder thrown in. Thoughts are always more than welcome and it strikes me as one hell of a step up from...

(https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.UcY0sP1IQGxdGxuPgRMDDQHaE8?pid=ImgDet&rs=1)